Masks

Overheal · 19-07-2020 04:13PM

No: I don't care enough

weldoninhio wrote: »

I’d imagine the virus is a certain size, there’s a certain specification of mask/face covering that contains its spread. Would you be happy to have a loved one going into an operating theatre followed by a doctor with a Man U scarf around his face??

It’s precisely the fact that people want surgeons to have access to medical grade PPE that they are not encouraging the public to go out and hoard medical PPE. Your innards are exposed to the environment in an operating theatre, you have no benefit of skin or even of mucous membrane, so your chance of being infected by a doctor with early onset influenza or something is far higher than if you ran across the surgeon in the shop wearing a woven mask.

How are you not getting this?

Tork · 19-07-2020 04:19PM

Yes: to protect others

https://twitter.com/cheddar/status/1284511747173302274

Professor Luke O'Neill shared this on his Twitter account. It's a cough simulator trying some face coverings.

weldoninhio · 19-07-2020 04:21PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Tork wrote: »

https://twitter.com/cheddar/status/1284511747173302274

Professor Luke O'Neill shared this on his Twitter account. It's a cough simulator trying some face coverings.

Is that the same Luke O’Neill who previously said masks were useless??

Tork · 19-07-2020 04:26PM

Yes: to protect others

Yes. The man who changed his mind once more information about this virus and how it is transmitted came onstream. What's wrong with that? He has been consistent about masks for quite a while now.

Overheal · 19-07-2020 04:28PM

No: I don't care enough

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is that the same Luke O’Neill who previously said masks were useless??

You tell us. Hundreds of Luke O’Neills on Facebook.

Overheal · 19-07-2020 04:29PM

No: I don't care enough

Tork wrote: »

Yes. The man who changed his mind once more information about this virus and how it is transmitted came onstream. What's wrong with that? He has been consistent about masks for quite a while now.

And at worst what he did was uncover that the double layered woven masks are indeed quite effective over just a bandana etc.

Away With The Fairies · 19-07-2020 04:33PM

Yes: valved

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is that the same Luke O’Neill who previously said masks were useless??

That was back in March. Even a professor is open to learning and changing.

Overheal · 19-07-2020 04:36PM

No: I don't care enough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9ZIuoQDtL0

Tork · 19-07-2020 04:37PM

Yes: to protect others

He said it in this interview, uploaded to YouTube in February https://youtu.be/g7_P2RmrA6U I don't see anything wrong with him changing his stance, now that more is known about the virus. If scientists stubbornly stuck to their original theories and refused to change their thinking once more information came along to contradict that, they'd be rubbish at their jobs. This is still a very new virus and scientists are still finding out about it.

odyssey06 · 19-07-2020 04:40PM

Tork wrote: »

He said it in this interview, uploaded to YouTube in February https://youtu.be/g7_P2RmrA6U I don't see anything wrong with him changing his stance, now that more is known about the virus. If scientists stubbornly stuck to their original theories and refused to change their thinking once more information came along to contradict that, they'd be rubbish at their jobs. This is still a very new virus and scientists are still finding out about it.

Plus the Chinese spread disinformation about the coronavirus, trying to hush up person-to-person transmission via droplets and pretending it was primarily transmitted through surfaces. The WHO and some of our experts perhaps too readily took at face value what they were hearing from the Chinese authorities.

MadYaker · 19-07-2020 05:05PM

Yes: surgical

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is that the same Luke O’Neill who previously said masks were useless??

Indeed it is but intelligent people are usually open minded and will change their views on certain issues when the weight of evidence becomes overwhelming. Hint hint.

timmy_mallet · 19-07-2020 05:11PM

Overheal wrote: »

Let’s pretend I don’t already know that’s categorically false and now could you please explain how an influenza strain is “almost identical” to a coronavirus strain?

It is in reference to the neurological problems being reported. Those being reported for for h1n1 and for covid19 are almost identical in symptom and frequency.

timmy_mallet · 19-07-2020 05:15PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I'm sorry you said that hospitalised patients are elderly.

People of all ages have been hospitalised.

You pick out half a sentence that said disorders of consciousness are more common in elderly. That does not mean this is an old folks disease.

This is not the flu.

Symptoms/frequency of the neurological references in the original post are almost identical btwn h1n1 and covid19. I dont disagree that 'this is not the flu', however they are both respiratory illnesses caused by viruses passed in the very same manner, and to ignore the similarity in what I've described to sow fear is irresponsible on those involved.

Tork · 19-07-2020 05:16PM

Yes: to protect others

But you still believe people shouldn't wear masks to curb the spread of Covid-19, correct?

timmy_mallet · 19-07-2020 05:26PM

Tork wrote: »

But you still believe people shouldn't wear masks to curb the spread of Covid-19, correct?

'Correct', incorrect. Patients in hospital. Healthcare workers. Public transport. Cinemas. Pubs. Nightclubs. I'm sure I've missed a few. But retail outlets are a red herring.

is_that_so · 19-07-2020 06:33PM

No: other

Dug up some penalties for not wearing masks in other countries, out of curiosity.

France €135 ( new law)
Australia $200
Germany €15 to €5,000 with some states not imposing fines
UK £100
Spain €100
Greece €150
US $100-$300
Hong Kong $645 (€70)
Singapore $300(about €200)
Ireland €2,500 or 6 months in prison

Away With The Fairies · 19-07-2020 06:54PM

Yes: valved

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Symptoms/frequency of the neurological references in the original post are almost identical btwn h1n1 and covid19. I dont disagree that 'this is not the flu', however they are both respiratory illnesses caused by viruses passed in the very same manner, and to ignore the similarity in what I've described to sow fear is irresponsible on those involved.

Covid isn't a respiratory illness anymore. It affects more organs than the respiratory system.

is_that_so · 19-07-2020 06:57PM

No: other

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Covid isn't a respiratory illness anymore. It affects more organs than the respiratory system.

But it can't get to them unless it gets into the respiratory tract first!

Overheal · 19-07-2020 07:01PM

No: I don't care enough

timmy_mallet wrote: »

It is in reference to the neurological problems being reported. Those being reported for for h1n1 and for covid19 are almost identical in symptom and frequency.

Whats your source for this? And why would you say they are "almost identical" based on only 1 narrow set of symptoms that does nothing to tell the whole story?

jjmcclure · 19-07-2020 07:13PM

Some Brits and some Yanks are really a special kind of stupid!!!!

Wear a mask you idiots!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538465/Hundreds-anti-mask-activists-march-Londons-Hyde-Park-wearing-plague-doctor-costumes.html

MadYaker · 19-07-2020 07:17PM

Yes: surgical

is_that_so wrote: »

Dug up some penalties for not wearing masks in other countries, out of curiosity.

France €135 ( new law)
Australia $200
Germany €15 to €5,000 with some states not imposing fines
UK £100
Spain €100
Greece €150
US $100-$300
Hong Kong $645 (€70)
Singapore $300(about €200)
Ireland €2,500 or 6 months in prison

I did think 2500 of a fine seemed a bit much. That can't be an on the spot fine?

xhomelezz · 19-07-2020 07:33PM

Yes: valved

jjmcclure wrote: »

Some Brits and some Yanks are really a special kind of stupid!!!!

Wear a mask you idiots!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538465/Hundreds-anti-mask-activists-march-Londons-Hyde-Park-wearing-plague-doctor-costumes.html

They are something special for sure
30943376-8538465-One_wore_a_vest_saying_Save_human_rights_No_to_5G_No_to_vaccinat-a-28_1595178303027.jpg

timmy_mallet · 19-07-2020 08:24PM

Overheal wrote: »

Whats your source for this? And why would you say they are "almost identical" based on only 1 narrow set of symptoms that does nothing to tell the whole story?

The source is a few pages back.

Why would I say that? Because that is literally the point we were discussing, the neurological effects.

odyssey06 · 19-07-2020 08:50PM

timmy_mallet wrote: »

The source is a few pages back.

Why would I say that? Because that is literally the point we were discussing, the neurological effects.

Source please for your latest claim or stop posting misinformation.

This is a quote from Dr Michael Zandi, consultant neurologist at the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery (NHNN) in London:
"Sars and Mers, which are both caused by coronaviruses, were associated with some neurological disease, but we've never seen anything like this before. The closest comparison is the 1918 flu pandemic. We saw then there was a lot of brain disease and problems that emerged over the next 10-20 years."

If you think Covid-19 is just a respiratory disease, think again. As each week passes, it is becoming increasingly clear that coronavirus can trigger a huge range of neurological problems... Paul Mylrea, a 64 yar old ... had two massive strokes, both caused by coronavirus infection... Paul had suffered another acute stroke due to a clot, depriving vital areas of the brain of blood supply.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53081022

_Kaiser_ · 19-07-2020 09:06PM

Was out earlier on in Kildare Village. Mask uptake about 50% I reckon. Security guys have a temperature scanner thing as you walk in from the car park.

The thing that annoys me most about this whole topic is the zealots brow-beating anyone who isn't just doing whatever social media and the "experts" (who generally can't agree among themselves) say they should be this week.
Masks haven't been necessary till now yet the numbers steadily decreased. Even with pretty much everything open again for nearly a month, numbers are still exceptionally low. Earlier in the sequence of events they were suggested to be ineffective unless you have a medical grade one (which pretty much no one I saw today did, and a lot worn incorrectly).

Masks will be a placebo. Falsely reassuring those who are nervous about "the virus", an irritant and inconvenience to everyone else that will only be adhered to as long as/if the Gardai enforce the suggested penalties (just as with the travel restrictions). In the end though I expect they'll make very little difference either way.

And spare me the attacks now folks. I won't be entertaining or responding to it, but I will also only be adhering to this latest deflection from how poorly this whole issue has been managed when absolutely necessary. I'm not convinced at all, no more than I was when we locked up the country far longer than needed to protect a small known minority who would be better protected in other ways.

odyssey06 · 19-07-2020 09:14PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Was out earlier on in Kildare Village. Mask uptake about 50% I reckon. Security guys have a temperature scanner thing as you walk in from the car park.

The thing that annoys me most about this whole topic is the zealots brow-beating anyone who isn't just doing whatever social media and the "experts" (who generally can't agree among themselves) say they should be this week.
Masks haven't been necessary till now yet the numbers steadily decreased. Even with pretty much everything open again for nearly a month, numbers are still exceptionally low. Earlier in the sequence of events they were suggested to be ineffective unless you have a medical grade one (which pretty much no one I saw today did, and a lot worn incorrectly).

Masks will be a placebo. Falsely reassuring those who are nervous about "the virus", an irritant and inconvenience to everyone else that will only be adhered to as long as/if the Gardai enforce the suggested penalties (just as with the travel restrictions). In the end though I expect they'll make very little difference either way.

And spare me the attacks now folks. I won't be entertaining or responding to it, but I will also only be adhering to this latest deflection from how poorly this whole issue has been managed when absolutely necessary. I'm not convinced at all, no more than I was when we locked up the country far longer than needed to protect a small known minority who would be better protected in other ways.

So you come onto a thread.
Ignore all the evidence in favour of masks - both in terms of effectiveness of face coverings in trial studies at restricting dropets & in terms of other countries that have adopted masks for longer.
And then you issue some broadside at social media zealots without having the openness to even challenge any of the posts directly from 'zealots' - and by that I presume you also includes some boardsies..
You won't respond to rebuttals or can't?
Your post deserves to go in the garbage bin tbh.

Jim_Hodge · 19-07-2020 09:22PM

Yes: homemade

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Was out earlier on in Kildare Village. Mask uptake about 50% I reckon. Security guys have a temperature scanner thing as you walk in from the car park.

The thing that annoys me most about this whole topic is the zealots brow-beating anyone who isn't just doing whatever social media and the "experts" (who generally can't agree among themselves) say they should be this week.
Masks haven't been necessary till now yet the numbers steadily decreased. Even with pretty much everything open again for nearly a month, numbers are still exceptionally low. Earlier in the sequence of events they were suggested to be ineffective unless you have a medical grade one (which pretty much no one I saw today did, and a lot worn incorrectly).

Masks will be a placebo. Falsely reassuring those who are nervous about "the virus", an irritant and inconvenience to everyone else that will only be adhered to as long as/if the Gardai enforce the suggested penalties (just as with the travel restrictions). In the end though I expect they'll make very little difference either way.

And spare me the attacks now folks. I won't be entertaining or responding to it, but I will also only be adhering to this latest deflection from how poorly this whole issue has been managed when absolutely necessary. I'm not convinced at all, no more than I was when we locked up the country far longer than needed to protect a small known minority who would be better protected in other ways.

Kind of pointless so. "I'm making a statement, not taking any questions and will not have to stand over anything I say. Hear me!".

timmy_mallet · 19-07-2020 09:23PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Source please for your latest claim or stop posting misinformation.

This is a quote from Dr Michael Zandi, consultant neurologist at the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery (NHNN) in London:
"Sars and Mers, which are both caused by coronaviruses, were associated with some neurological disease, but we've never seen anything like this before. The closest comparison is the 1918 flu pandemic. We saw then there was a lot of brain disease and problems that emerged over the next 10-20 years."

If you think Covid-19 is just a respiratory disease, think again. As each week passes, it is becoming increasingly clear that coronavirus can trigger a huge range of neurological problems... Paul Mylrea, a 64 yar old ... had two massive strokes, both caused by coronavirus infection... Paul had suffered another acute stroke due to a clot, depriving vital areas of the brain of blood supply.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53081022

An anecdote. I'm not doing your copy and paste or research for you. The source is a couple of pages back.

Jim_Hodge · 19-07-2020 09:26PM

Yes: homemade

timmy_mallet wrote: »

An anecdote. I'm not doing your copy and paste or research for you. The source is a couple of pages back.

This is a fast moving thread. As you know where it is, how about following the usual protocol here and link to it or give the post number? It's not a big ask. I looked but couldn't find it - not sure if I went back far enough.
Genuine request, as I'm interested.

_Kaiser_ · 19-07-2020 09:27PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

So you come onto a thread.
Ignore all the evidence in favour of masks - both in terms of effectiveness of face coverings in trial studies at restricting dropets & in terms of other countries that have adopted masks for longer.
And then you issue some broadside at social media zealots without having the openness to even challenge any of the posts directly from 'zealots' - and by that I presume you also includes some boardsies..
You won't respond to rebuttals or can't?
Your post deserves to go in the garbage bin tbh.

And your post is exactly what I'm talking about.. "someone else has a different opinion to me! Must respond with a bunch of insults and smug pontificating for the likes". It's this that annoys me most about social media led crusading - you're with us or against us, but if you're against us we will beat you into submission.

Wear masks if you wish. No one is stopping you. You are I'm sure aware that most "expert" reports will support whatever the author wishes to prove right? That's why for every study showing x, there'll be another just as valid sounding proving y.

We've had 3 weeks+ of the country effectively reopened and yet numbers haven't surged. It might be predicted they will, but it hasn't happened - yet anyway. I am not convinced that the sudden love for face masks is the answer we've missed all these months (when the numbers fell to minimal levels), and I am not convinced that threatening people to comply "or else" will work either. People will make the minimum effort needed, only when necessary to avoid any penalties. That can't be much good for a universal response? Not to mention the host of exemptions on top of it.

Masks

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