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Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

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Comments

  • #8192
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,857 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    The brits think they’ve massively exaggerated their death toll

    https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1284471357569478657?s=21


  • #8193
    Wild Field 1831
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 111 ✭✭Wild Field 1831


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    The brits think they’ve massively exaggerated their death toll

    https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1284471357569478657?s=21

    How convenient for Boris and co.


  • #8194
    fritzelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,563 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Wild Field 1831 wrote: »
    How convenient for Boris and co.

    In fairness we are doing the same


  • #8195
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    The brits think they’ve massively exaggerated their death toll

    https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1284471357569478657?s=21

    I’d love to see England’s death average in March to July most years to now. I think Scotland have been more pro active and expanding the numbers to the Uk suits the government.

    Edit: Guardian did an extensive review of deaths back in May and even said comparing deaths in certain periods helps give a clearer indication. Why can’t they do that now? Always dubious of headlines like this , they can do the exact same thing now so what gives?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/may/29/excess-deaths-uk-has-one-highest-levels-europe


  • #8196
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92,394 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Onesea wrote: »
    I see Harris himself refused to be tested.

    Simon?


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  • #8197
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Chinese wouldn't get away with that.


  • #8198
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92,394 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That doctor is something of a self-publicist and dare I say a Covigilante.

    Covidgilante is a new one for me


  • #8199
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭YellowBucket


    Drumpot wrote: »
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112643643&postcount=863

    This is a post I made on February 25th while watching Dr Bruce Aylward give a savagely powerful analysis of how China were managing it. He said some things he knew “WHO” would not approve as he was just off the plane and exhausted. But how much of this seems familiar to our conversation today about communication.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o0q1XMRKYM




    Just reading that, I remember how many people I couldn’t discuss this with because most thought it wasn’t coming here.

    We need to adapt better, we need to communicate better. We need to plan for the worst and hope for the best. We need a more clear, transparent framework so people can start planning for the next 12-24 months. We can’t keep this daily plan going, it has to change to long term, including communicating and educating our population. Definitive decisions and the reasons why communicated to people.

    Part of the reason people are fed up and/or feeling hopeless is because we appear to be still on a firefighting footing with no obvious plan beyond a few weeks. We need to be also building the infrastructure and the knowledge on how we manage this long term to give peopel hope that regardless of what happens there is a plan and we can as a society (and economical) get through this.

    I don’t think anywhere is accepting that this is probably a medium term problem. We are stuck with it until there’s a vaccine or at least more effective ways of treating it properly, yet we aren’t putting infrastructure in place.

    I mean take flying. Why isn’t the industry adapted yet? I don’t just mean Ireland either. There’s been no efforts on say a harmonised travel passport that would enable testing and safe flying.

    Having a bunch of loons and conspiracy theorists running the US isn’t much help, but there’s no reason the EU couldn’t take a more proactive role in this, coordinate with like minded, pragmatic places and come up with a safe, system that anyone could implement.

    I think the penny still hasn’t dropped that this is likely going to be a problem for a number of years and we are pining unrealistic hopes on a rapid solution which may not be arriving or rolled out nearly as quickly as we hope.

    The chaos, lack of a plan and disruption is bad for economics, it’s bad for mental health and it’s also going to have huge political consequences in a lot of countries as it could easily fuel public anger at some stage. I don’t think that’s likely the case in Ireland, largely due to being small scale and having an extremely proportional democracy, but it’s very likely in plenty of places as blame starts to be attributed to governments.


  • #8200
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    The brits think they’ve massively exaggerated their death toll

    https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1284471357569478657?s=21

    It doesn’t really say that though. It says they need to validate the data as some deaths long after they had the virus were counted as COVID deaths. Nowhere does it say this is a massive number. It is also likely some of those died as a consequence of the damage caused by the virus even though it was gone.

    Standard reporting rules for deaths following a medical intervention require those to be associated with the intervention until investigation shows otherwise. Colleagues of mine who work in complaints in a medical device manufacturers have investigated products used in minor heart procedures where the patient subsequently died in a car accident. As the patients in England were probably admitted with COVID, it is likely these rules that required COVID to be associated with the deaths. It is unlikely to be a very high number however


  • #8201
    thelad95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭thelad95


    Went down to local SuperValu (Lucan) and noted a significant increase in mask usage including nearly all staff except one lady at the checkout (to be expected as she could have an underlying medical condition, masks are not suitable for everyone).

    As expected, lowest uptake seemed to be younger people.

    However, some free information brochures should be distributed by the HSE outlining how to correctly fit them. I noted some stupid practices such as not covering the nose, removing to talk to people (this is when it's needed most!!!) and clearly incorrectly/improperly fitted masks which are counterproductive.


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  • #8202
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭YellowBucket


    It seems more like a certain element in English politics and commentary is clutching at straws to prove that it wasn’t as bad as it really was. The excess death toll in England was too high (and that’s not looking at specific causes, but just the number of people who died relative to a base line) and that points probably to a lot of issues that don’t suit some people to look at as they point as poor social infrastructure, overcrowded housing, low standards of living and so on, particularly in London and some other English cities.

    Basically the places with better housing, more equitable lifestyles and so on have done better.

    English politics and tabloids also didn’t take it seriously in the early stages. Johnson was literally mocking people who did and playing it down until he ended up in ICU!

    You see that repeated in Ireland too. I would suspect Dublin’s case load is probably a lot to do with the lack of adequate housing - eg I know personally plenty of nurses & hospital workers who live in lousy house shares and it would be impossible to control spread.

    The US is also in a meltdown because of lack of social cohesion, poor social services, hollowed out public health and insane politics. COVID is just highlighting all of its weak points and it’s a disease that requires a strong social and community response to suppress, which the contemporary US isn’t capable of.


  • #8203
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    They really won't, if people really had long memories FF wouldn't even exist let alone be a party of government.
    When travel opens fully again the same people you are talking about will forget what they said and buy that cheap seat to Malaga.

    One thing I've learned from this whole thing is that boardsies really hate Ryanair, publicans, horse racing fans and Americans.


  • #8204
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    They’ve proven themselves absolutely oblivious to even basic public health concerns. Their aviation license should be postponed until some sense of normality is resumed.

    Let's shut down every company you don't like then. Jesus some lads here are serious control freaks.


  • #8205
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    Simon?

    Rolf.


  • #8206
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    murphthesmurf wrote: »
    If you have vulnerable family members then they need to be protected appropriately, mean while the rest of us should be allowed to carry on with our lives. It is not the responsibility of everyone else and businesses to do this in my opinion.
    Covid is here to stay, it's not going anywhere. We could carry on these measures for another year and then in one year and one day it will start spreading again.
    Living our lives in hope that a vaccine might be just around the corner is no good. It's like me not bothering going to work because I might win the lottery.
    I find it ironic that to go into a supermarket to buy from their selection of chocolate, crisps, fizzy drinks, biscuits, processed foods, cakes etc I have to wear a face covering to protect me from Covid when 10,000 people a year die from heart disease and however many from cancer.
    Covid is not as bad as we thought it was going to be, but no-one seems to want to admit they were wrong.
    In New York 25% of people who were listed as victims of Covid were never tested. Colorado investigated it's figures to find out how many died "with" Covid and how many died "from" Covid. Again the numbers dropped by 25%. The average age of death in US from Covid is older than the average age of death as a whole. I don't know the figures here, but I'd be amazed if they arent at least as far off, probably more so.

    1) if you have vulnerable family members, like parents, grandparents? The rest of us.. who are they?

    2) The mask is NOT to protect you, its to protect others FROM you.

    3) google excess deaths. Now tell me why all.these.people are magically dying. You know it took 5 months before they figured out it causes blood clots and strokes and heart attacks, right? None of those deaths even tested for covid19 cause we didnt know. Excess deaths is the only true picture we have and looking at that covid deaths are under counted.
    And we havent even started to begin to understand longhaulcovid19 and its long term repercussions

    The italians are clear, even for the young and mild cases there can be long term health implications.
    Better not to get it.
    But id be hoping this bug will evolve into something milder


  • #8207
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    One thing I've learned from this whole thing is that boardsies really hate Ryanair, publicans, horse racing fans and Americans.
    Young people and Bulgarians fruit pickers too!


  • #8208
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    thelad95 wrote: »
    Went down to local SuperValu (Lucan) and noted a significant increase in mask usage including nearly all staff except one lady at the checkout (to be expected as she could have an underlying medical condition, masks are not suitable for everyone).

    As expected, lowest uptake seemed to be younger people.

    However, some free information brochures should be distributed by the HSE outlining how to correctly fit them. I noted some stupid practices such as not covering the nose, removing to talk to people (this is when it's needed most!!!) and clearly incorrectly/improperly fitted masks which are counterproductive.
    Unless you're planning some violent action against them let them be and stop counting. Remember the mask suggests that you could be diseased yourself!


  • #8209
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,623 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    thelad95 wrote: »
    Went down to local SuperValu (Lucan) and noted a significant increase in mask usage including nearly all staff except one lady at the checkout (to be expected as she could have an underlying medical condition, masks are not suitable for everyone).

    As expected, lowest uptake seemed to be younger people.

    However, some free information brochures should be distributed by the HSE outlining how to correctly fit them. I noted some stupid practices such as not covering the nose, removing to talk to people (this is when it's needed most!!!) and clearly incorrectly/improperly fitted masks which are counterproductive.

    To counter that I was in Crumlin village earlier and went into a Tesco Which was quite busy yet I was the only one wearing a mask, walked past a pub that doesn’t serve food that was packed with no SD went to another shop where one other person was wearing a mask, not as busy as Tesco but quite a few walking around in the shop.


  • #8210
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    tom1ie wrote: »
    To counter that I was in Crumlin village earlier and went into a Tesco Which was quite busy yet I was the only one wearing a mask, walked past a pub that doesn’t serve food that was packed with no SD went to another shop where one other person was wearing a mask, not as busy as Tesco but quite a few walking around in the shop.
    Yeah, it's all anecdotal and stories will vary. Technically it is not in force yet as there are no regulations underpinning it. The introduction of the measure is IMO to add a very small extra level to what's already in place. It'll be tough to enforce as many do not view most retail areas, especially supermarkets as a risk. Social media will be in full shaming mode though.


  • #8211
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,623 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Yeah, it's all anecdotal and stories will vary. Technically it is not in force yet as there are no regulations underpinning it. The introduction of the measure is IMO to add a very small extra level to what's already in place. It'll be tough to enforce as many do not view most retail are, especially supermarkets as a risk. Social media will be full shaming mode though.

    Unless staff stop people from entering unless they wear a mask, when it does become mandatory, I don’t see how wearing masks in shops will become commonplace.
    Guards certainly won’t be getting involved as far as I can see anyway.


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  • #8212
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,857 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Unless staff stop people from entering unless they wear a mask, when it does become mandatory, I don’t see how wearing masks in shops will become commonplace.
    Guards certainly won’t be getting involved as far as I can see anyway.

    I was in Douglas Court in Cork today and I was genuinely shocked at how many people were wearing masks. I’d say well over 90%. I find that the people who aren’t wearing masks tend to be older. There were guards walking around too as I believe there was a security incident earlier and they were wearing masks.


  • #8213
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Unless staff stop people from entering unless they wear a mask, when it does become mandatory, I don’t see how wearing masks in shops will become commonplace.
    Guards certainly won’t be getting involved as far as I can see anyway.

    People in general are law abiding and will observe any laws there is, especially on the grounds of public health during a once in a generation global pandemic .

    The vast majority of people will start wearing masks, like they have in most other countries in the world, the people not wearing masks will dwindle. Fast forward a couple of months and the notion of not wearing masks will seem completely alien.

    As for the guards not getting involved, of course they will as they have done on transport.

    It's their job to enforce the law, if some Dickhead is giving the "Mey Fraydumbs" bollíx and causing hassle he will be dealt with.


  • #8214
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,623 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    I was in Douglas Court in Cork today and I was genuinely shocked at how many people were wearing masks. I’d say well over 90%. I find that the people who aren’t wearing masks tend to be older. There were guards walking around too as I believe there was a security incident earlier and they were wearing masks.


    That’s good to hear.
    I was a bit dismayed when I seen the setup in Crumlin village considering it’s a much older profile area.
    Especially with the boozer packed and no SD.


  • #8215
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Unless staff stop people from entering unless they wear a mask, when it does become mandatory, I don’t see how wearing masks in shops will become commonplace.
    Guards certainly won’t be getting involved as far as I can see anyway.
    It's all about better compliance. I can't see too many businesses wanting to engage even if they have a very strong position on it. The trading consequences are another consideration. We still don't know what the penalties will be but even just one case or one hard-headed response could hit social media and it's defence mode for Donnelly.


  • #8216
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's all about better compliance. I can't see too many businesses wanting to engage even if they have a very strong position on it. The trading consequences are another consideration. We still don't know what the penalties will be but even just one case or one hard-headed response could hit social media and it's defence mode for Donnelly.

    Shops are not some sort of timid entity not afraid to protect their business.

    They protect their businesses daily from all sorts.

    People are severely underestimating a shops ability to self police.


  • #8217
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,498 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Thing is... to MOL, if somebody said... “hey, I can write you a check for 20 million TODAY, but you will be signing the death warrant of 50 people in order to accept and cash now... OR you will be in receipt of the exact same cheque in 7 months time and nobody dies”

    What does he do ? I think I know.


  • #8218
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Strumms wrote: »
    Thing is... to MOL, if somebody said... “hey, I can write you a check for 20 million TODAY, but you will be signing the death warrant of 50 people in order to accept and cash now... OR you will be in receipt of the exact same cheque in 7 months time and nobody dies”

    What does he do ? I think I know.

    If you can indeed read minds you have a future on stage.
    The most annoying thing about Boards is this self professed expertise in knowing exactly what others think.
    I have a word to describe this BS but I would get an infraction for using it.


  • #8219
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    If you can indeed read minds you have a future on stage.
    The most annoying think about Boards is this self professed expertise in knowing exactly what others think.
    I have a word to describe this BS but I would get an infraction for using it.

    Thing is this level of self professed expertise and knowledge of what others think is often inversely proportional to actual knowledge


  • #8220
    petes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,382 ✭✭✭petes


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    If you can indeed read minds you have a future on stage.
    The most annoying thing about Boards is this self professed expertise in knowing exactly what others think.
    I have a word to describe this BS but I would get an infraction for using it.

    The other annoying thing is posters refusing to answer a question after being called out on it and then leaving the thread. You wouldn't know anything about that though!


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  • #8221
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    petes wrote: »
    The other annoying thing is posters refusing to answer a question after being called out on it and then leaving the thread. You wouldn't know anything about that though!

    As far as I'm aware there is no requirement to answer a question you don't want too, has this changed?


This discussion has been closed.
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