Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Idbatterim · 18-07-2020 01:52AM

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/enough-is-enough-publican-vows-to-open-on-monday-despite-government-advice-39374808.html

A Limerick publican has vowed to reopen on Monday at 11am despite Tánaiste Leo Varadkar saying in the Dáil today that it will be “at least” August 10 before “wet pubs” can reopen.

Gearoid Whelan, who owns Whelan’s pub in west Limerick, said that he will open up on Monday morning and operate as a regular pub, with €10,000 worth of alterations made to the bar, making it social-distancing friendly.

He said that tourists have been allowed to “pour” in to the country and is making a stand for the bars who do not serve food and have not been allowed to open.

“I’ve been with the government all this way, they’ve done a fantastic job, but this time they’ve gone too far with letting the tourists, particularly the Americans.

And yet the Americans pour into the country.”

He said that if passengers arriving into Ireland were tested, he would stay closed.

“If there was mandatory testing and put into a hotel until you found out your result, I’ll stay closed until Christmas.

“But the fact that they’re letting tourists into the country and yet every publican is forced to stay closed for possibly another, at least August 10, the cases are on the rise so we won’t be open, so I think it’s time to make a stand,” he explained.

If they started testing at the airport, I’d stay closed. It’s wrong for us to suffer then for it.”

“I think we all know if you’re here on a holiday, you’re not going to quarantine for two weeks voluntarily.”

He said that in the four months the bar closed, he estimates that the business has lost hundreds of thousands in turnover.

“The publicans have played ball so far but our livelihoods are at stake,” he said.

“I’ve redesigned the bar, which cost up to €10,000, with screens, sanitising stations, you name it, we’ve done it, done all we can to make it as safe as possible,” he said

"It’ll be a public house, walk off the street and have a drink if you want.”

votecounts · 18-07-2020 02:28AM

road_high wrote: »

Their pay will have to be cut then unless rigid, structured online teaching is introduced standardised across all and accessible to all.
If I can’t or won’t fully do my job I don’t expect the same salary and to be paid to do nothing indefinitely. The “new normal” brigade can put that in their pipes

LOL. more chance of the pubs opening tomorrow

Charles Babbage · 18-07-2020 02:53AM

growleaves wrote: »

I think people are forgetting that Leo Varadkar said that lockdown could only go on so long and wasn't sustainable.

Ask a psychiatrist, social isolation is very damaging and not just for children but for everyone.

So what you have is that people with partners and families hunker down. Those without end up breaking the rules and seeing groups of friends out of necessity. Human beings just are social creatures and human nature is real.

In the circular blackmail we have instituted, if people are unable to go along with lockdown they are threatened with another lockdown and/or saddled with the blame for the long-term consequences of lockdown.

Our policy treats relations between people as a detail and won't admit that they aren't incidental but in fact the essence of life. We're on very shaky ground and as I've said before I believe its cumulative, people who could handle five months of this might become distressed after seven months.

Relations between people do not have to involve 5 hours drinking or be conducted in groups of 40.

road_high · 18-07-2020 08:53AM

votecounts wrote: »

LOL. more chance of the pubs opening tomorrow

It'll depend on how bad the finances are. Going by the last few months they are bad. So i would not rule anything out, even a cut dressed up as a "temporary emergency measure"

Idbatterim · 18-07-2020 08:59AM

Thete is no way health staff will take cuts or be expected too... the teschers on the other hand.... then again, bettwr off chtting hundreds of millions in waste like the welfare xmas bonus than cutting workers pay...

pjohnson · 18-07-2020 09:09AM

People REALLY dont want schools reopening if they think teachers will accept a pay cut :pac:

Idbatterim wrote: »

Thete is no way health staff will take cuts or be expected too... the teschers on the other hand.... then again, bettwr off chtting hundreds of millions in waste like the welfare xmas bonus than cutting workers pay...

Oooh is this thread about to turn into a boards classic "x-mas bonus/welfare whinge" thread?

road_high · 18-07-2020 09:23AM

[quote="pjohnson;114068482"

Oooh is this thread about to turn into a boards classic "x-mas bonus/welfare whinge" thread?[/quote]

Again a discussion steeped in reality. This is all public expenditure in a country running €6 billion monthly deficits. Of course it’s going to be analysed here and I can guarantee you it’s all being discussed in the DoF.

road_high · 18-07-2020 09:25AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Thete is no way health staff will take cuts or be expected too... the teschers on the other hand.... then again, bettwr off chtting hundreds of millions in waste like the welfare xmas bonus than cutting workers pay...

There won’t be a welfare “bonus” this year not a snowballs chance

Idbatterim · 18-07-2020 09:29AM

road_high wrote: »

There won’t be a welfare “bonus” this year not a snowballs chance

I reckon there is a higher chance of this virus dissapearing by tomorrow, than the chance of the xmas bonus not being paid out... we will see

is_that_so · 18-07-2020 09:30AM

road_high wrote: »

FG are more than happy to let FF take the flack. The optics are things were positive and on the up as Leo left the office of Taoiseach...few weeks of FF and we are back on the **** heap. Not entirely accurate of course but a lot of the public will see it that way. Martin was been very unimpressive to date. All on top of the Cowen debacle

I think they're just off busy with their own ministries. FF and Martin are really bringing this on themselves. Not a good start by them. The biggest problem they have is the lack of communication. We've got used to Leo and Harris showing up three times a day with opinions, reassurances and warnings. That's not Martin's style and Donnelly is not the most media friendly personality.

18-07-2020 09:32AM

Salary cuts, increased tax, increased USC, job losses, outsourcing to cheaper locations, welfare cuts, spending cuts...

This will be a reality for everyone of us.

Most people wanted it though so we can’t complain too much.

All the world will struggle, but it will be particularly bad here. Only country in Europe I believe that hasn’t fully opened at all since March.

is_that_so · 18-07-2020 09:33AM

road_high wrote: »

It'll depend on how bad the finances are. Going by the last few months they are bad. So i would not rule anything out, even a cut dressed up as a "temporary emergency measure"

The NTMA issued €750m in debt this week at a yield of -0.51%. At those rates it will take a long time for finances to get bad. We can ride this out as long as we don't revert to full-on restrictions.

faceman · 18-07-2020 09:45AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Salary cuts, increased tax, increased USC, job losses, outsourcing to cheaper locations, welfare cuts, spending cuts...

This will be a reality for everyone of us.

Most people wanted it though so we can’t complain too much.

All the world will struggle, but it will be particularly bad here. Only country in Europe I believe that hasn’t fully opened at all since March.

Absolutely correct. The government is panicking over what they are calling a worrying trend which in related is average cases jumping from 10-20 a day. It’s not an issue yet and death rate remains low. Why? Because I’m assuming, per the government shaming, it’s younger people having parties. Older people aren’t socialist. Therefore younger people are getting the virus but we know the virus isn’t much more than a bad flu for the vast majority of young people.

* Mask wearing hasn’t been mandatory
* Planning for local lockdowns to prevent a wave 2 clearly hasn’t been done given the talk of a second national lockdown if daily cases hit 100. Every other EU country is either doing this or has it in their plans
* enforcement of any of social distancing/mask wearing is a taboo. Here in Spain everyone does their part to call people out. Instead in Ireland we get the usual bullshít from unions saying it’s not my job. Covid-19 has highlighted in Ireland how detrimental unions are and many of the big ones should be disbanded
* travel is not causing jumps in the virus despite the scaremongering in other EU countries
* lack of economic planning

Other countries are dealing with outbreaks and observing what is happening here in Spain, they’re pretty much on the ball for dealing with them. The Valencia region here has a population of 5m and runs the whole way down the south east coast. There are days when there are zero cases here. (The Spanish report cases by region as each region has their own government with certain powers)

It really feels like Ireland will reach a point when emigration to another country is the only option for younger people. If you don’t die of undiagnosed cancer from a lack of screening first.

As a footnote, the majority of outbreaks here in Spain are due to the Spanish equivalent of a house party - family gatherings.

Penfailed · 18-07-2020 10:55AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Only country in Europe I believe that hasn’t fully opened at all since March.

I believe that you are wrong on that. There are still restrictions in many places around the world.

facehugger99 · 18-07-2020 11:21AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Salary cuts, increased tax, increased USC, job losses, outsourcing to cheaper locations, welfare cuts, spending cuts...

This will be a reality for everyone of us.

Most people wanted it though so we can’t complain too much.

All the world will struggle, but it will be particularly bad here. Only country in Europe I believe that hasn’t fully opened at all since March.

I'd wager most of the clappy-seals who brayed for lockdown will not be able to make the connection when the realise their pay-packets and welfare payments have been decimated.

Clonmel1000 · 18-07-2020 11:48AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Foreign travel needs to be curtailed as much as possible , so that , most importantly , schools can reopen in september... so that pubs can reopen. I would acceot naddive curtailment of foreign travel and no noghtclubs or massive gatherings certainly indoors like concerts... as the middle ground until a vaccine is hopefully delivered or it dies out...

Why not ban domestic travel to? It’s as dangerous.

pgj2015 · 18-07-2020 12:12PM

just heard all restaurants are going to be shut again monday, probably bull but its coming from a cafe owner.

gral6 · 18-07-2020 12:17PM

pgj2015 wrote: »

just heard all restaurants are going to be shut again monday, probably bull but its coming from a cafe owner.

I think time has come to shut down Dáil Éireann forever ! :mad:

Ray Donovan · 18-07-2020 12:43PM

pgj2015 wrote: »

just heard all restaurants are going to be shut again monday, probably bull but its coming from a cafe owner.

Whatsapp?

road_high · 18-07-2020 01:53PM

pgj2015 wrote: »

just heard all restaurants are going to be shut again monday, probably bull but its coming from a cafe owner.

This is the kind of ****e we are dealing with..the never ending stop start rumours

FishOnABike · 18-07-2020 02:41PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I hope the publicans realise that nothing will happen to them if they open up anyway on Monday. If your local pub opens then go to it. We can end the stupidity ourselves if we vote with our feet. The extension makes no sense at this stage. The amount of testing we’re doing is massive and the percentage of positives from those tests are under the false positive rate for the pcr test itself. The case numbers will never get any lower. Crazy stuff from a spineless government. We need some investigative journalists quickly to keep them on their toes.

What's the false positive rate for the RT-PCR test? I've searched online but haven't found any figure for it.

Multipass · 18-07-2020 02:50PM

Money no object to our government apparently. Schools underfunded, health screening gone, so let’s bribe those who can already afford holidays into not flying abroad. What reality is this idea from?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/staycation-subsidy-cash-back-for-holidays-at-home-39377788.html

A new tax-back scheme for people who holiday at home this summer is being developed by the Government.

TaurenDruid · 18-07-2020 02:54PM

pgj2015 wrote: »

just heard all restaurants are going to be shut again monday, probably bull but its coming from a cafe owner.

Ok, I'll bite.

How did this café owner hear?

A phonecall from Micheál, was it? A text from the RAI, decoded with a secret code ring?

This is as silly as "The army are going to be on the streets on Monday, I heard it from a sergeant I know!" from back in March.

Please don't reply with "I'm just telling you what I heard!"

is_that_so · 18-07-2020 03:24PM

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Why not ban domestic travel to? It’s as dangerous.

That's what the reversal to Phase 2 could be. There have been few creative or subtle responses to the pandemic, it's sledgehammer all the way. That's how it has to be as there are few opportunities for flexibility and authorities are definitely erring on the side of being overcautious.

dalyboy · 18-07-2020 03:39PM

is_that_so wrote: »

That's what the reversal to Phase 2 could be. There have been few creative or subtle responses to the pandemic, it's sledgehammer all the way. That's how it has to be as there are few opportunities for flexibility and authorities are definitely erring on the side of being overcautious.

So we are going the headless chicken tactic. Run around frantically and drop dead (economically speaking) In Germany / Denmark etc they close only the pockets of infection clusters. Ireland nah .... close down the entire country .. unbelievable s&@t

Elessar · 18-07-2020 03:50PM

faceman wrote: »

Absolutely correct. The government is panicking over what they are calling a worrying trend which in related is average cases jumping from 10-20 a day. It’s not an issue yet and death rate remains low. Why? Because I’m assuming, per the government shaming, it’s younger people having parties. Older people aren’t socialist. Therefore younger people are getting the virus but we know the virus isn’t much more than a bad flu for the vast majority of young people.

* Mask wearing hasn’t been mandatory
* Planning for local lockdowns to prevent a wave 2 clearly hasn’t been done given the talk of a second national lockdown if daily cases hit 100. Every other EU country is either doing this or has it in their plans
* enforcement of any of social distancing/mask wearing is a taboo. Here in Spain everyone does their part to call people out. Instead in Ireland we get the usual bullshít from unions saying it’s not my job. Covid-19 has highlighted in Ireland how detrimental unions are and many of the big ones should be disbanded
* travel is not causing jumps in the virus despite the scaremongering in other EU countries
* lack of economic planning

Other countries are dealing with outbreaks and observing what is happening here in Spain, they’re pretty much on the ball for dealing with them. The Valencia region here has a population of 5m and runs the whole way down the south east coast. There are days when there are zero cases here. (The Spanish report cases by region as each region has their own government with certain powers)

It really feels like Ireland will reach a point when emigration to another country is the only option for younger people. If you don’t die of undiagnosed cancer from a lack of screening first.

As a footnote, the majority of outbreaks here in Spain are due to the Spanish equivalent of a house party - family gatherings.

Good post. The rest of Europe is managing this much better than we are. Localised lockdowns, mandatory mask wearing, better enforcement, businesses open and trading even bars and restaurants, no restrictions on travel.

A second lockdown here would be absolutely horrendous for millions of jobs.

Why is Ireland managing this so differently?

road_high · 18-07-2020 04:04PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Ok, I'll bite.

How did this café owner hear?

A phonecall from Micheál, was it? A text from the RAI, decoded with a secret code ring?

This is as silly as "The army are going to be on the streets on Monday, I heard it from a sergeant I know!" from back in March.

Please don't reply with "I'm just telling you what I heard!"

The army on the streets thing wasn’t too far from reality tbh. We had Garda checkpoints everywhere with severe movement restrictions only for essential travel. Amounted to the same thing

is_that_so · 18-07-2020 04:05PM

dalyboy wrote: »

So we are going the headless chicken tactic. Run around frantically and drop dead (economically speaking) In Germany / Denmark etc they close only the pockets of infection clusters. Ireland nah .... close down the entire country .. unbelievable s&@t

I don't think we will but the current R0 seems to be suggesting we could go above 100 cases a day again. My own feeling is that we should try to manage it, even at those levels, unless hospital cases begin to mount rapidly.

road_high · 18-07-2020 04:11PM

Elessar wrote: »

Good post. The rest of Europe is managing this much better than we are. Localised lockdowns, mandatory mask wearing, better enforcement, businesses open and trading even bars and restaurants, no restrictions on travel.

A second lockdown here would be absolutely horrendous for millions of jobs.

Why is Ireland managing this so differently?

We are a very reactionary society rather than one with calm, well thought out plans. Was again very evident this week with the meltdowns over the small case increases. You’d swear for many the apocalypse is about to occur. There’s no logic or critical thinking.
The as ever organised French have split their country into regions and specific guidance depending on how many cases in each. Their schools are planned fully for a return with students and teachers also equipped with the necessary IT...a month or so to go and we don’t even know if they’ll be back or not. My hunch is not if this week is anything to go by. So almost 6 months wasted floundering around the place

end of the road · 18-07-2020 05:09PM

faceman wrote: »

Instead in Ireland we get the usual bullshít from unions saying it’s not my job.

because it's not.
the job of a union is to look after the interests of it's members, nothing more.
workers have enough to do without being expected to face abuse or even attack from self entitled individuals who think they are so special as to not follow the rules.

faceman wrote: »

Covid-19 has highlighted in Ireland how detrimental unions are

it hasn't, it has shown the exact opposite.
you are expecting unions to do things not in their remit, that's just not how things work.

faceman wrote: »

and many of the big ones should be disbanded

and how exactly do you think that is going to happen?
answer, it's not and it can't.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings