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Masks

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Comments

  • #5012
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    MadYaker wrote: »
    It’s so depressing to read posts like this. There’s no excuse for this level of ignorance with all the information that’s at our fingertips these days. I think the human race is going backwards. We’re getting dumber not smarter.

    Incorrect. Public policy decisions are many times not based on evidence. They are taken due to a large percentage of the population feeling a certain way and lobbying for it contrary to or in the absence of evidence. This is one such case.


  • #5013
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    None of the points you have raised are a reason not to wear masks.
    If people with symptoms shouldn't be out and about, regardless of masks, how is the virus spreading right now?
    We should assume they are out and about, and accordingly mandate mask wearing.
    It's not an argument against mask wearing.

    Most allergies and rhinitis mean runny noses and sneezes not bunged up noses, so I suspect that quote from O'Neill has been taken out of context.
    Regardless, there are lots of reasons why people sneeze and cough that have nothing to do with coronavirus or any infectious disease. Individuals liable to that should be wearing masks to protect others in case they are in early stages of infection. There is a risk in asymptomatic transmission which we have not fully qualified yet.

    Improper use isn't a danger in the active sense i.e. in and of itself.
    It's dangerous in that it fails to protect you from the actual danger.
    People are bringing up oh if you use the mask wrong you will get infected as a reason not to wear a mask. It's a canard. It was part of a misinformation campaign in the early stages when the HSE were protecting their stocks of PPE.
    It was part of the reason so many of our healthcare workers were infected.

    And the people who say that don't explain what would have happened had the person not been wearing a mask.
    They don't consider that aspect of it OR the aspect that had all the other people been wearing masks their chances of being exposed to infection would be less.

    Masks lessen the spread. If they keep our R number down a few decimal points they have served their purpose as a weapon in this fight.
    They have next to no economic impact compared to our other restrictions.

    And there we have it. "If they keep the R number down...". A public policy decision being taken with no clear evidence but because it makes people feel safer.


  • #5014
    Jimdagym
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭Jimdagym


    robfowler78 wrote: »
    Hi just wonder what the rule is for children and masks are the mandatory for under 13 or are they still not required I'm a bit confused.

    Still not required if under 13


  • #5015
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    Jimdagym wrote: »
    Still not required if under 13

    Are under 13s less likely to spread the virus?


  • #5016
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,689 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    And there we have it. "If they keep the R number down...". A public policy decision being taken with no clear evidence but because it makes people feel safer.

    You don't have it cos that's not what I wrote. Nowhere did I say anything about making people feel safer. My point was that masks are not about 100% stopping the virus, but in reducing the R value, so that in conjunction with other measures, keeps the virus under control.

    The thread is full of abundant evidence on how masks limit the dispersion of droplets. You ignore it and pop up to with intentional misquotes of other people's posts. Your own posts contradict your own arguments, one minute social distancing is happening, the next minute it is not. Your change your mind at a whim to support whatever one-liner you think which sow the most confusion at the time. Your agenda here is clear and obvious.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #5017
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    No: other
    MadYaker wrote: »
    It’s lockdown or masks. Pick one.

    You forgot option 3, close the friggin borders if we can't close the border with the north close the southern borders of the border counties.


  • #5018
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,689 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You forgot option 3, close the friggin borders if we can't close the border with the north close the southern borders of the border counties.

    You think we can't get people to wear masks properly but you think we can close our border with the North along with the outside world?
    Or cut off some of our own counties?
    That's not a realistic proposition.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #5019
    Jimdagym
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭Jimdagym


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    Are under 13s less likely to spread the virus?

    I don't know, I don't set requirements or policy.


  • #5020
    Benimar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭Benimar


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You forgot option 3, close the friggin borders if we can't close the border with the north close the southern borders of the border counties.

    So, you are saying we should close Louth, Monaghan, Cavan, Leitrim and Donegal off from the rest of Ireland??

    All so you don’t have to wear a mask?


  • #5021
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    No: other
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    You think we can't get people to wear masks properly but you think we can close our border with the North along with the outside world?
    Or cut off some of our own counties?
    That's not a realistic proposition.

    We haven't a hope of getting people to wear them properly, just back from grabbing my morning coffee. Old boy came in with a mask, ordered some sausages, rashers etc. Pulled the mask down by the front and starter eating out of the bag.
    I'm no saying we close to the outside world but we need waiting and testing if you want to get in, much like standing in a que for a nightclub, wait your turn and if your too drunk your not coming in.

    Thinking we can have open borders in the hope everyone wears a mask is a complete fools game, it's not going to work.


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  • #5022
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    No: other
    Benimar wrote: »
    So, you are saying we should close Louth, Monaghan, Cavan, Leitrim and Donegal off from the rest of Ireland??

    All so you don’t have to wear a mask?

    Masks will not stop the spread, they may slow it but not stop it. Yes i'm saying we don't let people who haven't been tested and quarantined past the southern border of those counties if we can't control them on the northern border.

    A mask does not provide immunity, the sooner people cop on to that the better.


  • #5023
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,689 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Masks will not stop the spread, they may slow it but not stop it. Yes i'm saying we don't let people who haven't been tested and quarantined past the southern border of those counties if we can't control them on the northern border. A mask does not provide immunity, the sooner people cop on to that the better.

    That's a strawman argyment.
    Who is saying they provide immunity? Re-read the posts on the thread they are about reducing the droplets produced by an infected person.
    Not about protecting the wearer directly from them.
    No one is saying that they on their own stop the spread 100%.
    But slowing the spread ultimately contributes to stopping it along with other measures - and are far less disruptive.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #5024
    Benimar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭Benimar


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Masks will not stop the spread, they may slow it but not stop it. Yes i'm saying we don't let people who haven't been tested and quarantined past the southern border of those counties if we can't control them on the northern border.

    A mask does not provide immunity, the sooner people cop on to that the better.

    So you advocate that an Irish government essentially abandon 5 counties?


  • #5025
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,139 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes: homemade
    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You forgot option 3, close the friggin borders if we can't close the border with the north close the southern borders of the border counties.

    Do you not realise how absurd that comment is? How about closing off Dublin and Kildare due to the high number of cases there?

    Just wear a damned mask, keep your distance and wash your hands. It's no big deal and every little helps.


  • #5026
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    No: other
    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    And there we have it. "If they keep the R number down...". A public policy decision being taken with no clear evidence but because it makes people feel safer.

    Hey Timmy, you went quiet there last night when asked to explain how you know that there has not been a single case of virus transmission in shops. Any update? Because it looks like you were just making it up.


  • #5027
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You linked to the journal, it's hardly what i'd consider peer reviewed gospel.
    Your missing my question why are they still getting infected over 50% of today's cases were health care workers. The general public haven't the same level of equipment, how can a mandatory mask policy expect to control the virus?
    We let prisoners out of jail, if masks were so effective why didn't we leave them there and just make them wear masks.
    Masks weren't invented this year, medical professionals even on NEPHT aren't all on board with masks and have stated so on national TV
    Like the guards why can they stay indoors in a crowded room with no masks yet we can't buy a loaf.

    Where are all the biohazard bins for used masks considering they may be covered in a highly infectious disease??


  • #5028
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Day on day record new case increases globally.
    14 million total cases and rising at a rate of above 200k a day

    425 new cases in Australia yesterday after weeks of tiny figures

    Over 1 million cases in India
    2 million in Brazil
    3.5 in the Us



    Ireland will see an increase again. The HSE said yesterday that they are not prepared to handle a second wave of cases.

    If and when we start to see another uptick in cases and deaths remember those who had the power yet refused to stop flights coming into Ireland.
    As flights have increased it has been quoted that it is only possible to follow up call less than 10%. This figure will get smaller and smaller as the numbers continue to grow.

    Ireland as an island nation had a chance. No longer the case. By October we will be in serious trouble

    We’re doomed!!!!!


  • #5029
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    wadacrack wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/AliNouriPhD/status/1283925161801121792

    Right, with masks, 60% of the population was infected. And the mortality rate was the same as the Diamond Princess. So, essentially pointless, glad we've cleared that up.


  • #5030
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,689 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Where are all the biohazard bins for used masks considering they may be covered in a highly infectious disease??

    Where is the biohazard bin for their respiratory systems which would have been exposed to the virus without the mask?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #5031
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    No: other
    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    Do you not realise how absurd that comment is? How about closing off Dublin and Kildare due to the high number of cases there?

    I'm all for that. Keep the dubs out of the rest of the country until they can manage 2 weeks with no case.


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  • #5032
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Where is the biohazard bin for their respiratory systems which would have been exposed to the virus without the mask?

    Gobbledygook.


  • #5033
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,689 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Gobbledygook.

    You can't bin a respiratory system which has been exposed to the virus.
    You can bin the disposable mask that shielded the respiratory system from outputting the virus.
    You have some sort of fantasy scenario in mind where an infected person is in the supermarket, and other people only get infected because they were wearing masks. It's a canard and misinformation. It's fake news.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #5034
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    No: other
    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    That's correct . October is when the danger is

    The science based on limited studies says getting the flu vaccine increases your risk of contacting covid.
    Winter will be a **** show if we don't get a handle on people entering the country and people travelling from counties with persistent daily cases, i.e Dublin and Kildare

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404712/


  • #5035
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    You can't bin a respiratory system which has been exposed to the virus.
    You can bin the disposable mask that shielded the respiratory system from outputting the virus.
    You have some sort of fantasy scenario in mind where an infected person is in the supermarket, and other people only get infected because they were wearing masks. It's a canard and misinformation. It's fake news.

    If someone is infected and breathing into a mask, that mask is a biohazard. Where are all the biohazard bins for all these used masks?


  • #5036
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,689 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If someone is infected and breathing into a mask, that mask is a biohazard. Where are all the biohazard bins for all these used masks?

    SO you are in favour of masks now, given that without the mask the infected person themselves would be more of a hazard?
    AND now you are concerned about the logistics of same?
    Welcome on board.

    Given the survivability of the virus on cotton regular bins seem to be ok.
    But if you have studies highlighting people getting infected from handling rubbish containing such items please do share.
    People handling rubbish could resort to plastic gloves and hand sanitsier. Much easier to clean hands than clean your respiratory system.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #5037
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    No: other
    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    Right, with masks, 60% of the population was infected. And the mortality rate was the same as the Diamond Princess. So, essentially pointless, glad we've cleared that up.

    From the article it was day 8 before they issued masks and isolated the passengers. They also say 81% of positive cases were asymptomatic, so for potentially 8 days these people were spreading the virus. They didn't know they had it and they were not wearing masks.

    If anything this is yet another strong argument for wearing masks in public. 81% of infected people did not show symptopms, but could have been spreading it.

    Now Timmy, back to the fact that you appear to be making stuff up, you say that there were zero transmissions of the virus in Ireland in shops? How do you know that?


  • #5038
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    SO you are in favour of masks now, given that without the mask the infected person themselves would be more of a hazard?
    AND now you are concerned about the logistics of same?
    Welcome on board.

    Given the survivability of the virus on cotton regular bins seem to be ok.
    But if you have studies highlighting people getting infected from handling rubbish containing such items please do share.
    People handling rubbish could resort to plastic gloves and hand sanitsier. Much easier to clean hands than clean your respiratory system.

    Not at all, just wondering if they are so good at catching a highly infectious disease, surely the govt should be providing biohazard bins to ensure the correct disposal of these deadly masks. Like they have for syringes. Kids pick up all sorts on the streets, it’s not necessarily a council/refuse worker who’ll be picking them up.


  • #5039
    railer201
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 968 ✭✭✭railer201


    Yes: valved
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    We’re doomed!!!!!

    If you don't plan to wear a mask then you are doomed, because there's nothing left in the armoury after that. It will be like Custer's last stand at the Alamo for the anti-maskers - what a hill to die on ???

    There's no dodging this virus - it will hit just like the common cold - letting some people off completely, damaging vital organs of others via blood clots and sadly killing the rest. There is as yet no vaccine or cure.

    That's what you have to look forward to now. :(


  • #5040
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    No: other
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Not at all, just wondering if they are so good at catching a highly infectious disease, surely the govt should be providing biohazard bins to ensure the correct disposal of these deadly masks. Like they have for syringes. Kids pick up all sorts on the streets, it’s not necessarily a council/refuse worker who’ll be picking them up.

    They're not a hazard if you dont touch them, the droplets that may potentially be holding virus particles are trapped in the mask. So put them in the bin carefully and then try to keep your hands out of the rubbish bin. Hopefully you don't usually go around sticking your hands in bins (with or withour gloves).


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  • #5041
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    No: other
    Sconsey wrote: »
    They're not a hazard if you dont touch them, the droplets that may potentially be holding virus particles are trapped in the mask. So put them in the bin carefully and then try to keep your hands out of the rubbish bin. Hopefully you don't usually go around sticking your hands in bins (with or withour gloves).

    Everyone is touching them, I'm a retailer with multiple locations, some here might be good at proper usage but what I'm seeing every day is the compete opposite of what some here believe is reality.
    It's great saying dispose of them properly, it's not happening, I could give you hundreds of examples but I'd run into a gdpr issue. Leo and Martin are living in la la land.

    Leo_Varadkar_working_doctor_COVID_Twitter_EddieHoareFG.png?t=1588319750

    Is it any wonder why we have some of the highest infections rates amougst health care workers in the world.


This discussion has been closed.
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