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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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  • #8252
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They appointed NPHET and they do have the expertise and a good range of people in there. For most of this they have been very good but I don't think they have the ability nor the flexibility now to get past this waiting a full cycle. It was the way to go for a very long time but they were aware of rising cases last week, they should have taken a stance then.

    There most certainly isn't.

    Single-issue bureaucrats, clucking away at each other in an echo-chamber.


  • #8253
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    House parties would represent the same risk or an even bigger risk than a pub.

    At least with pubs you'd have some regulation - taking a mobile number for contact tracing, perspex screens, etc. You wouldn't eliminate the risk but you'd make tracing a bit easier.

    That probably wouldn't exist for house parties. No regulations. So time to ban them.

    I'm all for families and extended families meeting up, eg grandkids visiting grandparents. But house parties with dozens of people many of them strangers is a massive risk.

    House parties the risk is to those attending, and their immediate family and social circles. There's nobody at house parties that someone doesn't know, no issue for tracing people.

    In a pub, the circles are wider and exponentially put more people at risk.


  • #8254
    afro man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 617 ✭✭✭afro man


    Hurrache wrote: »
    House parties the risk is to those attending, and their immediate family and social circles. There's nobody at house parties that someone doesn't know, no issue for tracing people.

    In a pub, the circles are wider and exponentially put more people at risk.

    what house parties have you been at that everybody knows everybody ??

    People can come and go to parties and people might not even know they were there..


  • #8255
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Hurrache wrote: »
    House parties the risk is to those attending, and their immediate family and social circles. There's nobody at house parties that someone doesn't know, no issue for tracing people.

    In a pub, the circles are wider and exponentially put more people at risk.

    Nonsense. House parties escalate. Starts off with a couple of people you know, before long its mates of mates and then people tagging along. You could end up with 50 or more people there. How the hell do you trace all of them? Impossible. And by the time you do, its too late, they've gone to work, into shops or on public transport.

    There is zero economic value from house parties. But the impact of a spike in cases from a house party could have substantial economic damage.

    Banning them is a quick and easy win for the government.

    But if recent history is anything to go by, they'd rather go for the nuclear option of shutting the country down instead of targeting the problem areas - eg refusal to restrict flights from red zones in the early days.


  • #8256
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,571 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Just remember fg " the capable pair of hands for the economy " have caused the damage this time and ff back just in time to finish it off with fg ! You couldn't make it up! At least this time , they both havent got a leg to stand on , it was blatant idiocy and cowardice


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  • #8257
    Utopia Parkway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,029 ✭✭✭✭Utopia Parkway


    afro man wrote: »
    what house parties have you been at that everybody knows everybody ??

    People can come and go to parties and people might not even know they were there..

    Exactly. At house parties all sorts can turn up and gain entry if one of them has a link to one person at the party. They could have 4 or 5 mates with them.

    Have people ever been to a house party? It’s not a dinner party. Usually there are loads there you wouldn’t know.


  • #8258
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Just remember fg " the capable pair of hands for the economy " have caused the damage this time and ff back just in time to finish it off with fg ! You couldn't make it up! At least this time , they both havent got a leg to stand on , it was blatant idiocy and cowardice
    Actually the previous incumbents were the semblance of calm during this, probably because we saw so few of them. The new one is already starting to flail.


  • #8259
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    afro man wrote: »
    what house parties have you been at that everybody knows everybody ??

    Probably very few, but then again I never said that.
    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    How the hell do you trace all of them? Impossible
    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    if one of them has a link to one person at the party. They could have 4 or 5 mates with them.

    Have people ever been to a house party? It’s not a dinner party. Usually there are loads there you wouldn’t know.

    My post is below to make it easy for you to check what I actually said.
    Hurrache wrote: »
    There's nobody at house parties that someone doesn't know, no issue for tracing people.


  • #8260
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The whole thing is just a farce. There really is no other word for it.

    We were one of the only countries in the world insisting on silly travel restrictions. (2km, 5km, 20km). No other country was so pedantic about things.

    You can go the pub if you spend 9 euro on food... as if a portion of Chicken Tendies makes you immune to Covid.

    We still can't go to a pub but flights are allowed in from Brazil, America and other Covid hotspots if they pinky promise to isolate for 2 weeks.

    We shouldn't go on holidays. But now we are going to publish the green list on Monday. So it will literally be ok to travel abroad and go on a pub crawl for a week if you want. You just can't do it in Ireland. But please don't go.

    And the latest one... no more than 10 people in a house from 4 different families. The government trying to tell people they can't have house parties! Can't wait to see how they enforce that one.

    Making masks mandatory when the cases are so low.

    If I came up with even half of this b*llix in my job, I'd have been sacked weeks ago. We're a f*cking joke.


  • #8261
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ansley Savory Podiatrist wrote: »
    Yes you're right, it's a question of balance between economic and medical priorities. But some posters seem to think there's some kind of Govt brainwashing going on which make them sound like those idiots in Texas.

    It was always made clear that this wasn't going to be a straightforward linear process, more a two steps forward one step back journey. Thinking that once something has been reopened it will stay reopened for good, or that because it has been anticipated that further openings will be allowed by a certain date then that will definitely happen is naive. It's going to be trial and error and reacting to changing levels in the community for a while. We're dealing with something unprecedented here and officials can just do the best they can with the knowledge they have at a given time.

    The only thing unprecedented is keeping thousands out of work when we have 14 cases a day.


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  • #8262
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Probably very few, but then again I never said that.



    My post is below to make it easy for you to both check what I actually said.

    Sounds like you haven't been to many house parties to be honest. And like I said even if you could trace everyone, it would be too late to stop the spread.

    You realise house parties can go on for a full day? The one in Kerry went on for a couple of days!

    Big difference to the 1 hour 45 minute limit in pubs!

    Its utter lunacy not to ban them. The gardai just need to identify the house, take a few photos and the following day issue a fine of something like 5,000 euro to the tenants.

    The problem would disappear overnight.

    As it stands problem areas like this will see us with a second wave in no time and another generalised lockdown.


  • #8263
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Why are people so caught up on the private house numbers and wondering how, and by who, it will be enforced?

    It's not going to be enforced, it's just a bloody guideline in order to have people think about the potential risks.


  • #8264
    Utopia Parkway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,029 ✭✭✭✭Utopia Parkway


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Probably very few, but then again I never said that.





    My post is below to make it easy for you to check what I actually said.

    Believe me, plenty people gain entry to house parties and nobody knows how they got in. I was at enough of them in my student days. There’s no bouncer at the door. They knock on the door and often someone will just let them in.


  • #8265
    completedit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    Is the idea that buying food will deter people from actually going out? But at same time, they want people to go or else they wouldn't have allowed certain pubs operate? It's just outrageous. I know it might seem a bit much too moan or complain in times like this but politicians need to be held accountable. I don't know what they want to do? I guess they are trying to deter people who are more compliant with advice to refrain from doing certain things so as it keep spread as low as they can, but at the same time not prosecute those who are more inclined to think independently?

    We've seen spikes in Bulgaria and Romania who were initially successful in stopping the spread but in Bulgaria's case they went too restrictive too early on in my view. Fines for being out on the street as far back as first week of March.


  • #8266
    ChelseaRentBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭ChelseaRentBoy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The only thing unprecedented is keeping thousands out of work when we have 14 cases a day.

    That's the reason there is only 14 cases a day. Open it all up brigade will be nowhere to be seen when we become Florida.


  • #8267
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    Sounds like you haven't been to many house parties to be honest.

    Try be a smartass all you like, but make sure you do it in front of a mirror because you made the same point I made. 'Mates of mates'. Mates of mates, no matter how many times removed, tend to involve people that know each other, there's a reason why the word mates are used.

    How many parties have you been to that have people there that not one single person knows?
    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    before long its mates of mates and then people tagging along.

    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    Believe me, plenty people gain entry to house parties and nobody knows how they got in. I was at enough of them in my student days. There’s no bouncer at the door. They knock on the door and often someone will just let them in.

    They'll be known by someone, it's rare they're not.

    You really need to stretch what happens at party's in order to try say how much more dangerous they are than pubs though.


  • #8268
    snotboogie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,804 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    It literally wasnt clear. The WHO only said that there was a benefit to wearing them in June.

    As I have shown in my post which you have blatantly ignored to repeat your own point, there was a continual denial that masks offered any protection against Covid. This was not linked to PPE levels, this was the directive by the WHO and our various health advisors.

    So you can understand why people would be thinking, what's going on here then, how have these masks become so vital when just 2 months ago we were being told they would make absolutely no difference.

    It follows on from the established pattern of inconsistency, from a government who hasn't yet published a green list for Irish people travelling, but let's people arrive here from anywhere and go about their business. From a government who have repeatedly shifted the goalposts on absolutely everything such as the intentions and goals of lockdown and the continued bleating on about the R rate as something of significance.

    I don't know what is making you feel "sick" in my posts. I don't even see what you are disagreeing with. Yes there was some confusion for the first few months. However the advise is now clear. The fact that all of the world is aligning with what the Asian nations who had experience with SARS said in February means everyone is on the same page now.

    The fact that advice changes in an evolving novel virus pandemic doesn't mean you stop listening to advise, especially when it is clear that previous advice was coloured by the government covering their own asses on the lack of PPE for front line medical staff.


  • #8269
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    Believe me, plenty people gain entry to house parties and nobody knows how they got in. I was at enough of them in my student days. There’s no bouncer at the door. They knock on the door and often someone will just let them in.

    My experience in college also. They bring in anyone and everyone.


  • #8270
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Another reason one might hanker for the old days of the pandemic, when government announcements all came together in a coherent fashion! Piecemeal seems to be the order of the day now. Yet increases the ability doesn't mean will open.
    The Minister for Further and Higher Education has said the decision to not proceed with phase 4 of reopening the country increases the ability to ensure that children return to education in September.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0716/1153662-schools-reopening/


  • #8271
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Try be a smartass all you like, but make sure you do it in front of a mirror because you made the same point I made. 'Mates of mates'. Mates of mates, no matter how many times removed, tend to involve people that know each other, there's a reason why the word mates are used.

    How many parties have you been to that have people there that not one single person knows?

    Far more than you by the sounds of it. You've already admitted you haven't been to many. Have you even been to one?

    You don't even seem to not know how long they last. Or that strangers knock on the door and ask to be let in.

    As for the tenants of a property knowing everyone or everyone knowing everyone, that clearly tells me your experience is minimal.


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  • #8272
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    Far more than you by the sounds of it. You've already admitted you haven't been to many. Have you ever been to one?

    You don't even seem to not know how long they last.

    Look, when you're wrong about something, don't start making **** up and become an even bigger smart ass.

    An easy question for you, you said I admitted that I haven't been to many parties. All my posts are on the last page and a half, show everyone where I said that, because it's a head scratcher for me. What bollox are you talking about when saying I don't know how long they last? Don't be a child.


  • #8273
    Utopia Parkway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,029 ✭✭✭✭Utopia Parkway


    Hurrache wrote: »
    How many parties have you been to that have people there that not one single person knows?

    Serious question? Have you ever actually been to a house party? They usually descend into chaos at some point and you look around and there are loads of people there that you don’t know. And you ask other people living in the house do you know who they are? And they haven't a clue!

    This is especially true when it is younger people involved.


  • #8274
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    That's the reason there is only 14 cases a day. Open it all up brigade will be nowhere to be seen when we become Florida.

    Absolutely no evidence that it will happen.

    Many countries are open for months now and doing ok.

    Spikes can and will happen and will need to dealt with.

    The alternative is, we can shut our borders completely and keep lots of business closed until our resources run out.


  • #8275
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Hurrache wrote: »

    An easy question for you, you said I admitted that I haven't been to many parties. All my posts are on the last page and a half, show everyone where I said that, because it's a head scratcher for me.

    You've said you haven't been to many parties but you are claiming to be an expert on parties?

    Just admit you don't know what you're talking about.


  • #8276
    completedit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    What annoys me is these same people will be all happy to go off about their business once the man on the telly gives them the green light? And I'm sorry, I'm not an epidemiologist. But I know some basic statistics and human psychology and I know humans completely overestimate certain risk and this is one of the cases.


  • #8277
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    Serious question? Have you ever actually been to a house party? They usually descend into chaos at some point and you look around and there are loads of people there that you don’t know. And you ask other people living in the house do you know who they are? And they haven't a clue!

    There'll always be people at parties I don't know, but I never once claimed the contrary.


  • #8278
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    You've said you haven't been to many parties but you are claiming to be an expert on parties?

    Just admit you don't know what you're talking about.

    Seriously, what's wrong with you? I didn't say that, show us where and I'll show you who doesn't know what they're talking about.


  • #8279
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    Serious question? Have you ever actually been to a house party? They usually descend into chaos at some point and you look around and there are loads of people there that you don’t know. And you ask other people living in the house do you know who they are? And they haven't a clue!

    This is especially true when it is younger people involved.

    That would have been my experience too and we've all been in the opposite situation, turning up at house parties where we didn't know those living there or anyone there. If you asked me who was at them, I couldn't tell you.

    They are a massive risk area.


  • #8280
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,252 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Seweryn wrote: »
    How many people actually look at real numbers and analyse them? I guess very few, because they are not published in every country (not here anyway).

    Yes, some of us do look at the figures. They are published here, every single day.

    https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

    It's all there. Total tests, positivity rate, total tests in the last 24 hours, etc, etc.


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  • #8281
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    Sounds like you haven't been to many house parties to be honest. And like I said even if you could trace everyone, it would be too late to stop the spread.

    You realise house parties can go on for a full day? The one in Kerry went on for a couple of days!

    Big difference to the 1 hour 45 minute limit in pubs!

    Its utter lunacy not to ban them.     The gardai just need to identify the house, take a few photos and the following day issue a fine of something like 5,000 euro to the tenants.

    The problem would disappear overnight.

    As it stands problem areas like this will see us with a second wave in no time and another generalised lockdown.

    Imagine being a teen or 20-something in today's society.

    All your social outlets from your education and college life to sports to pubs to nightclubs to travel plans have been closed over a virus that poses zero risk to you and your friends.

    You suck it up for months.

    At the end of 5 months, your reward is to have a host of politicians and other self-important curtain-twitchers wagging their finger at you and telling you that you've been very bold and need to be punished some more.

    Meanwhile every politician and populist is promising we'll borrow the billions needed and get the young to pay it all back while at the same time the economy and job-prospects are flushed down the toilet.

    I really hope the young people of this country revolt over what is happening


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