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Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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    #8162
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    From clown college or bovine university?

    No. Trinity College, Dublin.

    No need to project your own intellectual inadequacy onto the thread.


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    #8163
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    sid waddell wrote: »
    The problem with people who define antifa as "a group" is that they are using the same definition as calling me Johnny, Paddy and Mick going to the pub as a "group".

    Me, Johnny, Paddy and Mick are all anti-fascist. Therefore we are a group of antifa, as we head for our pints (always remaining at least one metre apart, of course). But we aren't an organsation.

    There is no such organisation as antifa.

    I never said there was. There is a group though. And anyone who says there isn't is wrong. And that goes back to the definition of a group.


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    #8164
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Read what is written. Nationalist socialist. Are you really this ignorant of the whole topic? Why the hell did you start talking about Nazi's when you know nothing about their ideology?



    Gibberish. So.. lots of words, and no meaning. Yup. I've noticed that about your posts.



    I didn't imply that you were a communist. Hilarious... and completely delusional.



    Good lord. They'll pass anyone it seems.... because you've shown a staggering amount of ignorance in a very short space of writing on the thread.
    I've read what you wrote.

    It bears no relation to reality and is merely somebody desperately trying to rewrite history so that it be in accordance with their historically illiterate opinions.

    The Nazis were not socialist.

    The Nazis were fascist.

    It's amazing the mental gymnastics people with long records of pro-far right will go to to deny what the Nazis actually were!

    One would almost guess it's because they're trying to protect fascism!


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    #8165
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    sid waddell wrote: »
    There is no such organisation as antifa.

    I've got some magic beans for sale if you're interested?


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    #8166
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    joeguevara wrote: »
    I never said there was. There is a group though. And anyone who says there isn't is wrong. And that goes back to the definition of a group.

    By your definition, Mary and Josie going shopping are "a group of antifa".


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    #8167
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    sid waddell wrote: »
    By your definition, Mary and Josie going shopping are "a group of antifa".

    Herein lies you pushing an agenda.


    Never said that. Please define a group. YOu really are a 13 year old trying to debate.


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    #8168
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    I've got some magic beans for sale if you're interested?

    In your attempt at a comeback, you're about as articulate as Mr. Bean, and much less funny.


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    #8169
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,215 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    sid waddell wrote: »
    No. Trinity College, Dublin.

    No need to project your own intellectual inadequacy onto the thread.

    This could be the reason Trinity is sliding down the international rankings.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #8170
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    sid waddell wrote: »
    I've read what you wrote.

    It bears no relation to reality and is merely somebody desperately trying to rewrite history so that it be in accordance with their historically illiterate opinions.

    The Nazis were not socialist.

    The Nazis were fascist.

    It's amazing the mental gymnastics people with long records of pro-far right will go to to deny what the Nazis actually were!

    One would almost guess it's because they're trying to protect fascism!

    So, I'm far right now, am I? That's interesting. hahaha. Ahh "subtle" associations. Your debating style in infantile.

    You have no clue as to what you're talking about. It's rather sad really.


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    #8171
    Akesh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭Akesh


    Overheal wrote: »
    Being against fascism and believing black lives matter are both separable from association with Antifa or BLM activism groups. Both are disjointed movements, both with groups that wave that banner, but you're not a member the same way you would be of a clear organization like eg. Proud Boys, the idea that people want to label BLM or Antifa a hate group or a terrorist organization is prone to failure, whereas there is no "KKK Movement" and the KKK is a particular organization with established leaders and even membership cards.

    It's not prone to failure. The majority of Antifa are anarchists who are gullible enough to believe we are witnessing the the rising of the Forth Reich. If these people want to take to the streets, dressed in black with face masks while destroying public property, then they shouldn't be surprised that society has had enough of their petulance and rogue anarchism when they have no policies that could actually be enacted.

    These people believe they are protesting racism or fascism when in fact they are just agents of chaos who have been easily led by trolls online whose sole objective is to create hatred between various different groups and to further extreme left ideology.

    Just because people are sheep doesn't mean they should get an exemption for being so gullible. They should be treated like the criminals they are. Allowing unhinged groups to call people Nazis/racists with no evidence of same should be treated as domestic terrorists.


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    #8172
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Wow
    Not such a shock. I know someone with a degree in history and she's gangbusters for the medieval and the renaissance, but outside of that for the most part you may as well ask a baked potato.

    The other problem is that post WW2 history is extremely clouded by a propaganda that never fully switched off in its aftermath. This is particularly the case with the Allies like the US, UK and Russia, though each have their own particular spin on it. So The Great Patriotic War as taught in Russian schools is a very different narrative than one we might be used to. EG the Germans didn't totally bugger up the Soviet forces in the early days. No, the Soviets were using a planned tactical retreat to bring the Germans in for a pincer movement. Yeah. :pac: The British still witter on about the Battle of Britain and Vera Lynn flying Spitfires over the white cliffs of Dover, a campaign they would have had to try hard to lose, though they nearly did. Americans are convinced their Greatest Generation won the whole damned thing on their own and everybody else was just getting in the way. The French think everyone's great grandparent was in the resistance and prefer to ignore the whole Vichy thing. On the other side the Germans are just so very very sorry for the whole thing of bringing the worst evil ever into the world, the Japanese aren't particularly sorry and don't give a damn really.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #8173
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Herein lies you pushing an agenda.


    Never said that. Please define a group. YOu really are a 13 year old trying to debate.
    That's an ad hominem.

    A group is two or more people together.

    The issue is whether there is an organisation called antifa. There isn't.

    Antifa means anti-fascist. That means everybody who is anti-fascist.

    If Mary and Josie go shopping, they're a group of antifa.

    But there are a lot of people here who oppose them.

    That seems fairly nuts to me.


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    #8174
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    sid waddell wrote: »
    In your attempt at a comeback, you're about as articulate as Mr. Bean, and much less funny.
    are youre about as coherent as him

    just because a group doesn't have a traditional top down structure or a head office with a customer service hotline dosnt mean its not a cohesive organisation - its just set up differently in order that people who are soft in the head will believe them not to be an organisation. And it works quite well, too.


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    #8175
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    sid waddell wrote: »
    That's an ad hominem.

    A group is two or more people together.

    The issue is whether there is an organisation called antifa. There isn't.

    Antifa means anti-fascist. That means everybody who is anti-fascist.

    If Mary and Josie go shopping, they're a group of antifa.

    But there are a lot of people here who oppose them.

    That seems fairly nuts to me.

    No problem with anti fascism.

    I have a problem with the group anti-fa. See above.


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    #8176
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Not such a shock.

    What's "not such a shock"?

    Are you trying to say my understanding of history is erroneous?

    Exactly which of my posts here have been historically erroneous?


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    #8177
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    joeguevara wrote: »
    No problem with anti fascism.

    I have a problem with the group anti-fa. See above.

    So you have a problem with me, Johnny, Mick and Paddy going down the pub. We're all antifa. We're a group of antifa.

    But we're not an organisation.

    Because there is no such organisation as antifa.


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    #8178
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    sid waddell wrote: »
    So you have a problem with me, Johnny, Mick and Paddy going down the pub. We're all antifa. We're a group of antifa.

    But we're not an organisation.

    Because there is no such organisation as antifa.
    Well, I don't know you so I don't have a problem per se.

    But if a group of you in a pub all spouting sh1te about Antifa, yes I do have a problem with you.


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    #8179
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Akesh wrote: »
    It's not prone to failure. The majority of Antifa are anarchists who are gullible enough to believe we are witnessing the the rising of the Forth Reich. If these people want to take to the streets, dressed in black with face masks while destroying public property, then they shouldn't be surprised that society has had enough of their petulance and rogue anarchism when they have no policies that could actually be enacted.

    These people believe they are protesting racism or fascism when in fact they are just agents of chaos who have been easily led by trolls online whose sole objective is to create hatred between various different groups and to further extreme left ideology.

    Just because people are sheep doesn't mean they should get an exemption for being so gullible. They should be treated like the criminals they are. Allowing unhinged groups to call people Nazis/racists with no evidence of same should be treated as domestic terrorists.


    On what basis do you maintain the majority of the population of Ireland are "anarchists"?

    Exercising free speech should be classed as "domestic terrorism"?

    That sounds a bit, you know, Nazi.

    Doesn't it?


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    #8180
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Mr Meanor wrote: »
    Then you should know about the DSP (Deutschsozialistische Partei) in the Weimar and Hans Georg Grassinger



    I've a degree in history as well
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Socialist_Party
    Though in fairness the whole the Nazi's were national socialists is a bit daft. Hitler and his cronies took on a mantle of cover "socialism" to gain public favour. However his "socialism" was extremely focused and he was far more in the pocket of big industry and old money and they in him. He quickly dropped any of the "socialist" stuff after he got the reins of power, subdued trade unions and replaced them with the German Labour Front entirely controlled by the party.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #8181
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Well, I don't know you so I don't have a problem per se.

    But if a group of you in a pub all spouting sh1te about Antifa, yes I do have a problem with you.

    What's wrong with anti-fascist conversation in a pub?


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    #8182
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    sid waddell wrote: »
    What's wrong with anti-fascist conversation in a pub?

    Absolutely nothing. Did I say there was?


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    #8183
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

    “Being interested in and caring for one’s kind is not to disparage foreign peoples and races."- Nazi party pamphlet "Why the Aryan Law?" (1934)

    “We are not preaching race-hatred but race-recognition and the will to preservation of our own…" - American Nazi Wilheim Kunze (1939)


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    #8184
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    joeguevara wrote: »
    You still cant define a group. Who said that a group cant be a collection of different group. Therein lies your problem.

    whats defining a group got to do with anything?

    ANTIFA isnt a group. is a name give to different groupings of people loosely held together under the antifacist banner.

    Anonymous for example, isnt a group. Its a loose collective of people with loosely the same ideals. Theres no leader and no head office and no central command or central organisation to Antifa, because there is no such 'group' of people called antifa.

    Christ on a bike, it's like talking to a plank - I havent even taken a side on this - Im just trying to outline how you cant called antifa a 'group' of people. You could get 10 antifa people in a room and they might all have completely different outlooks and ideals - bar being anti facist.

    makes it easier to stereotype calling antifa a group alright


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    #8185
    Mr Meanor
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭Mr Meanor


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Though in fairness the whole the Nazi's were national socialists is a bit daft. Hitler and his cronies took on a mantle of cover "socialism" to gain public favour. However his "socialism" was extremely focused and he was far more in the pocket of big industry and old money and they in him. He quickly dropped any of the "socialist" stuff after he got the reins of power, subdued trade unions and replaced them with the German Labour Front entirely controlled by the party.
    Exactly, It suited his plans as with so many of his modern contemporaries.


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    #8186
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Absolutely nothing. Did I say there was?

    Well you just said you had a problem with it!


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    #8187
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    maccored wrote: »
    whats defining a group got to do with anything?

    ANTIFA isnt a group. is a name give to different groupings of people loosely held together under the antifacist banner.

    Anonymous for example, isnt a group. Its a loose collective of people with loosely the same ideals. Theres no leader and no head office and no central command or central organisation to Antifa, because there is no such 'group' of people called antifa.

    Christ on a bike, it's like talking to a plank - I havent even taken a side on this - Im just trying to outline how you cant called antifa a 'group' of people. You could get 10 antifa people in a room and they might all have completely different outlooks and ideals - bar being anti facist.

    10 Antifa people in a room is not a group of Antifa people....mmmkkkkayyyy!


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    #8188
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    sid waddell wrote: »
    Well you just said you had a problem with it!

    Quote where I said it. Go on I dare ya.


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    #8189
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Absolutely nothing. Did I say there was?

    He doesn't 'get' subtle. :D


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    #8190
    Akesh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭Akesh


    sid waddell wrote: »
    On what basis do you maintain the majority of the population of Ireland are "anarchists"?

    Exercising free speech should be classed as "domestic terrorism"?

    That sounds a bit, you know, Nazi.

    Doesn't it?

    Where did I state that 'the majority of the population of Ireland are "anarchists"'?

    There is no such thing as free speech. Free speech would also imply that Antifa are actually cognitively saying something outside of shouting 'fascist' and 'nazi', to ANYTHING they don't agree with. Also, AntiFa are against free speech.

    Do you think anything through before you start typing?


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    #8191
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    joeguevara wrote: »
    10 Antifa people in a room is not a group of Antifa people....mmmkkkkayyyy!

    its a group of people yes. its might not be a group of people who all believe the same thing.

    I'm sorry - I cant dumb it down any further than that


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