Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

biko

Is Antifa here to reject their own history?
Antifa was/is merely foot soldiers for KPD, a German Stalinist party.

Antifaschistische Aktion, commonly known under its abbreviation Antifa, was a militant anti-fascist organisation in the Weimar Republic started by members of the Communist Party of Germany.

The original flag before one changed to black (to signify anarchism and autonomist Marxism)

Mr. Karate

So they showed up, looked like they endorse pedophilia, took a beating and they did it for free.

Karma is swift and just.

biko

Why is Antifa and BLM in bed together you may ask?

Well, BLM is also a Marxist grouping.

Of course black lives matter, but the unelected BLM Marxists should not matter

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/02/course-black-lives-matter-unelected-blm-marxists-should-not/

“Right now the streets are swelling with demands for a new future and a new policy mandate,” says BLM co-founder Patrisse Cullors.”

Cullors, last seen on video calling herself and her fellow BLM organizers “trained Marxists”

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/07/09/say-you-want-a-marxist-revolution-blm-steps-up/

And like Lenin himself said - “The goal of socialism is communism.”

Eric Cartman

sid waddell wrote: »

Yeah but "many" as you term it is relative. In terms of our population as a whole I'd bet it's very, very few.

And people who consider a hammer and sickle flag to be as offensive as a Nazi flag are really stupid.

And I thought the far right was all about "freeze peach" and defending "freeze peach"?

Now it seems that may not be the case at all! Well, knock me down with a feather!

correct, its even more offensive because more people died under defending the hammer and sickle , plus a lot of idiots still wave It around. Very few people thankfully wave swastikas around and those that do are full on admitting they agree with atrocities , many who wave the hammer and sickle around deny the atrocities committed in that flags name and want them to re-occur.

Mr Meanor

Wibbs wrote: »

For the older viewers you may remember the BBC comedy series "The Young Ones" where the Right On student character Rick shouted Fascist! at anyone or anything that didn't 100% agree with him, so there's nothing new under the sun.

Brilliant, I'm laughing and crying at the same time. Now all I'll see in my mind with a certain poster is this!

Chris_Heilong

Eric Cartman wrote: »

correct, its even more offensive because more people died under defending the hammer and sickle , plus a lot of idiots still wave It around. Very few people thankfully wave swastikas around and those that do are full on admitting they agree with atrocities , many who wave the hammer and sickle around deny the atrocities committed in that flags name and want them to re-occur.

Do not forget the mass rapes that occurred from the Russian soldiers who were in Poland and East Gemany, it was a daily occurrence for years so the hammer and Sickle has so much blood on it but many people are ignorant to it.

TheValeyard

biko wrote: »

Why is Antifa and BLM in bed together you may ask?

Well, BLM is also a Marxist grouping.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/02/course-black-lives-matter-unelected-blm-marxists-should-not/

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/07/09/say-you-want-a-marxist-revolution-blm-steps-up/

And like Lenin himself said - “The goal of socialism is communism.”

I think some of the BLM leadership were watching season four of Man in the High Castle

joeguevara

Mr Meanor wrote: »

Brilliant, I'm laughing and crying at the same time. Now all I'll see in my mind with a certain poster is this!

This person has 'No Name' as they belong to 'No Group'.

sid waddell

Eric Cartman wrote: »

correct, its even more offensive because more people died under defending the hammer and sickle , plus a lot of idiots still wave It around. Very few people thankfully wave swastikas around and those that do are full on admitting they agree with atrocities , many who wave the hammer and sickle around deny the atrocities committed in that flags name and want them to re-occur.

So the Allies should have been on the side of the Nazis against the Soviets? Wow.

You get some waaaaaay out there takes on Current Affairs!

joeguevara

sid waddell wrote: »

So the Allies should have been on the side of the Nazis against the Soviets? Wow.

You get some waaaaaay out there takes on Current Affairs!

You do know its ok not to support anyone that commits atrocities. Well, apart from a group that doesn't exist. They can support the moon for all the good it does.

sid waddell

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Do not forget the mass rapes that occurred from the Russian soldiers who were in Poland and East Gemany, it was a daily occurrence for years so the hammer and Sickle has so much blood on it but many people are ignorant to it.

No, they aren't. You just think they are because it's much more comforting for you to engage with a straw man than with reality.

As is always the case with the far right. That's the nature of self-conscious grift.

Bonniedog

sid waddell wrote: »

So the Allies should have been on the side of the Nazis against the Soviets? Wow.

You get some waaaaaay out there takes on Current Affairs!

The Soviets were on the same side as the Nazis for two years. They invaded Poland together.

sid waddell

biko wrote: »

Why is Antifa and BLM in bed together you may ask?

Well, BLM is also a Marxist grouping.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/02/course-black-lives-matter-unelected-blm-marxists-should-not/

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/07/09/say-you-want-a-marxist-revolution-blm-steps-up/

And like Lenin himself said - “The goal of socialism is communism.”

It may interest you to know that The Economist magazine was happy to print that Marxist analysis is "becoming more relevant by the day".

https://www.economist.com/britain/2017/05/11/labour-is-right-karl-marx-has-a-lot-to-teach-todays-politicians

I guess that's The Economist added to the list of the far right's "communist" publications to boycott!"

They're right, of course. Marxist analysis is deeply relevant today. You don't have to be a Marxist to know that.

And in my view Marxist analysis is demonstrably correct. We're seeing it every day, worldwide, whereas we're seeing very, very little evidence (none perhaps?) that Marxist analysis was wrong.

sid waddell

Bonniedog wrote: »

The Soviets were on the same side as the Nazis for two years. They invaded Poland together.

We know that. The Soviets did collaborate with the Nazis between 1939 and 1941. What's your point? That it was bad that the Soviets ended up defeating the Nazis in World War II?

I think the difference here between me and the people who are getting offended at my posts is that I'm not trying to say the Soviet regime was good, or to protect them in any way.

Whereas there does seem to be a lot of posters who are getting really peeved at entirely accurate historical summation of the Nazis! Hence the whataboutery any time the Nazis are mentioned!

Why would posters do that, I wonder?

Bonniedog

sid waddell wrote: »

Marxist analysis is deeply relevant today.


.

Yeah, its definitely right up there with alchemy and reading tea leafs.

stinkypinky

sid waddell wrote: »

So the Allies should have been on the side of the Nazis against the Soviets? Wow.

nullzero

sid waddell wrote: »

So the Allies should have been on the side of the Nazis against the Soviets? Wow.

You get some waaaaaay out there takes on Current Affairs!

Where are you getting that from in the post your quoting?

You have a waaaaaaaaaay out there method of engaging in debate. Simply put words in people's mouths and state them as fact.

That user was pointing out that millions died in soviet Russia, and that the symbols of that regime are equally soaked in the blood of innocents as swastikas.

nullzero

sid waddell wrote: »

We know that. The Soviets did collaborate with the Nazis between 1939 and 1941. What's your point? That it was bad that the Soviets ended up defeating the Nazis in World War II?

I think the difference here between me and the people who are getting offended at my posts is that I'm not trying to say the Soviet regime was good, or to protect them in any way.

Whereas there does seem to be a lot of posters who are getting really peeved at entirely accurate historical summation of the Nazis! Hence the whataboutery any time the Nazis are mentioned!

Why would posters do that, I wonder?

Nobody is engaging in what your suggesting here.

People have the right to point out that Soviet Russia had the blood of 20 million people on its hands, mostly citizens of soviet Russia as it happens.

Russia fought the Nazis, they deserve praise for that, but the equally deserve scorn for their own crimes.

Mr Meanor

sid waddell wrote: »

It may interest you to know that The Economist magazine was happy to print that Marxist analysis is "becoming more relevant by the day".

https://www.economist.com/britain/2017/05/11/labour-is-right-karl-marx-has-a-lot-to-teach-todays-politicians

I guess that's The Economist added to the list of the far right's "communist" publications to boycott!"

They're right, of course. Marxist analysis is deeply relevant today. You don't have to be a Marxist to know that.

And in my view Marxist analysis is demonstrably correct. We're seeing it every day, worldwide, whereas we're seeing very, very little evidence (none perhaps?) that Marxist analysis was wrong.

Welcome to your echo Chamber

Rebooting Marx for a Political Economy
https://books.google.ie/books?id=0WSzDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT34&lpg=PT34&dq=Labour+is+right—Karl+Marx+has+a+lot+to+teach+today’s+politicians&source=bl&ots=sxCUoQMbwE&sig=ACfU3U0-VL0QsT7LbPTdEL-wTlucrfEPKQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj0pKfrj83qAhUFuHEKHYBaCXcQ6AEwCnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Labour%20is%20right—Karl%20Marx%20has%20a%20lot%20to%20teach%20today’s%20politicians&f=false

Akesh

sid waddell wrote: »

It may interest you to know that The Economist magazine was happy to print that Marxist analysis is "becoming more relevant by the day".

https://www.economist.com/britain/2017/05/11/labour-is-right-karl-marx-has-a-lot-to-teach-todays-politicians

I guess that's The Economist added to the list of the far right's "communist" publications to boycott!"

They're right, of course. Marxist analysis is deeply relevant today. You don't have to be a Marxist to know that.

And in my view Marxist analysis is demonstrably correct. We're seeing it every day, worldwide, whereas we're seeing very, very little evidence (none perhaps?) that Marxist analysis was wrong.

Ah yes, a journalist said it, it must be true!!

Marxism is a failed ideology, proven repeatedly in history. The only thing Maxism has demonstrated is that it's a utopian ideology, incompatible with reality, that promotes economic inefficiency that leads to hunger, poverty and death.

An extreme left wing plague started by the Bolsheviks in 1917 is the biggest cancer in human history. 100M dead as a result of socialism since 1917 but don't let facts get in the way of your beliefs.

sid waddell

Akesh wrote: »

Ah yes, a journalist said it, it must be true!!

Marxism is a failed ideology, proven repeatedly in history. The only thing Maxism has demonstrated is that it's a utopian ideology, incompatible with reality, that promotes economic inefficiency that leads to hunger, poverty and death.

An extreme left wing plague started by the Bolsheviks in 1917 is the biggest cancer in human history. 100M dead as a result of socialism since 1917 but don't let facts get in the way of your beliefs.

You see you don't understand the difference between Marxist analysis and communism.

It's sort of hard to have a conversation when your understanding is so limited.

I'm not a communist because I don't believe it can work in the real world, but I respect that it's an entirely legitimate ideology to have, if misguided.

I would say the same about right-wing libertarianism. I think it's a totally crackpot ideology, but not inherently murderous in and of itself.

But you cannot say the same about Nazism or fascism in general. Nazism and fascism were never about anything else other than slaughter.

RWCNT

Mr. Karate wrote: »

So they showed up, looked like they endorse pedophilia, took a beating and they did it for free.

Karma is swift and just.

Since that twitter account is barn-door obviously fake, is there any evidence that the counter protesters on Saturday identify themselves as "Antifa" or are involved in any of the destructive behaviour people have railed against in this thread?

I've met plenty of "black block" types and I'm no fan. From my experience, they're generally privileged kids who are more interested in tough-guy posturing than doing anything of benefit for their communities. The people who showed up on Saturday appeared to do nothing like that though. Simply hoisted a banner and blare some Billy Bragg. And people are cheering on a disgraceful attack on them, simply because they've been labelled "Antifa".

jam_mac_jam

RWCNT wrote: »

Is there any evidence that the counter protesters on Saturday identify themselves as "Antifa" or are involved in any of the destructive behaviour people have railed against in this thread?

I've met plenty of "black block" types and I'm no fan. From my experience, they're generally privileged kids who are more interested in tough-guy posturing than doing anything of benefit for their communities. The people who showed up on Saturday appeared to do nothing like that though. Simply hoisted a banner and blare some Billy Bragg. And people are cheering on a disgraceful attack on them, simply because they've been labelled "Antifa".

Yes I agree with you. The same logic as antifa is being used. Oh if you are against us then you are pro facism, if you against us then you are pro pedo.

No thought, no nuance. I thought it was pretty cowardly to attack a few kids for a banner whether they are anti Fa or not. However a lot here seemed to think they were heros.

stinkypinky

sid waddell wrote: »

I'm not a communist because I don't believe it can work in the real world, but I respect that it's an entirely legitimate ideology to have, if misguided.

I would say the same about right-wing libertarianism. I think it's a totally crackpot ideology, but not inherently murderous in and of itself.

Absolutely trying to twist things in a disingenuous way again by trying to equate communism with right wing libertarianism. You should masquerade your words more carefully comrade, what you're doing is totally transparent. People aren't as stupid as you may think.

Akesh

sid waddell wrote: »

You see you don't understand the difference between Marxist analysis and communism.

It's sort of hard to have a conversation when your understanding is so limited.

I'm not a communist because I don't believe it can work in the real world, but I respect that it's an entirely legitimate ideology to have, if misguided.

I would say the same about right-wing libertarianism. I think it's a totally crackpot ideology, but not inherently murderous in and of itself.

But you cannot say the same about Nazism or fascism in general. Nazism and fascism were never about anything else other than slaughter.

Perhaps you need to read again what I posted before making accusations about something which you clearly don't understand.

According to you The Bolsheviks aren't Marxists, I thought you claimed to have a history degree? Everyone can play this game.

sid waddell

stinkypinky wrote: »

Absolutely trying to twist things in a disingenuous way again by trying to equate communism with right wing libertarianism. You should masquerade your words more carefully comrade, what you're doing is totally transparent. People aren't as stupid as you may think.

They are equivalent.

Neither is an inherently murderous ideology in and of itself, neither works in the real world.

I'm not the person who is "masquerading" my views on anything.

I don't have to do that because I'm not trying to cloak a murderous ideology behind weasel words.

sid waddell

Akesh wrote: »

Perhaps you need to read again what I posted before making accusations about something which you clearly don't understand.

According to you The Bolsheviks aren't Marxists, I thought you claimed to have a history degree? Everyone can play this game.

No, you're misunderstanding again.

Is it deliberate on your part?

That's the only conclusion I can come to about you.

stinkypinky

sid waddell wrote: »

They are equivalent.

I don't have to do that because I'm not trying to cloak a murderous ideology behind weasel words.

Accuse others of what you yourself are doing, soviet playbook 101.

RWCNT

Bonniedog wrote: »

Yeah, its definitely right up there with alchemy and reading tea leafs.

Analyse the french revolution with alchemy or tea leafs there for me, would ya.

sid waddell

stinkypinky wrote: »

Accuse others of what you yourself are doing, soviet playbook 101.

No, that's the Trump playbook.

It's also the current Russian playbook.

It's telling that the only thing you have to offer is calling me a "Soviet".

It's like performative satire.