Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Truthvader · 12-07-2020 12:07PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm delighted the IRA are gone, but there is no point lying about it either. The above is the British/Unionist centric version of how it all played out and is faulty.

No doubt the British had spies but the IRA cellular structure limited what they could do. That is evidenced by the IRA's big hits during this period. Also the IRA decommissioned on their terms, nobody else's. The British were forced to drop that demand and allow an armed group to the table basically.
And I think mercifully Adams and McGuinness won the debate for hearts and minds within the movement. They came to a crossroads, an all out assault or take the political road.

Who is this nonsense directed at? "An all out assault"? On what. In 30 years they never rose above the murder of unarmed civilians at their homes or the cowardly bomb in a shop. Was there a plan to invade Wales in "an all out assault"? Adams and McGuinness murdered their way to power and carved up NI between themselves the DUP. Who do you hope to sell this "peacemaker" crap to. Plus the IRA are a criminal gang . There is no "debate" . If Gerry is getting what he wants all alternative views wete dealt with by Bobby Storey and Stakeknife

Randy Archer · 12-07-2020 12:09PM

McMurphy wrote: »

I would imagine this is why.

Will anyone be investigating the mourners breaching social distancing guidelines at Garda Horkans funeral btw?

Two different States , you know this

One way the funeral of an IRA member, an illegal organisation, attended by members of Parliament on both sides of the border - you know, people who play a role in the making of policy and laws

The other was a funeral of a member of the Gardai, murdered while on duty .

It’s pretty clear the the disdain revolves around the background of the dead person rather than How many attended .

Don’t recall that the usual cohort of politicians ,President etc attending the funeral in Mayo. I could be wrong but Could you confirm if they did and who attended . One would assume Mayo finest and lover of funerals , Michael Ring was at it ? Enda?

We saw a massive travellers funeral ignore with impunity the Covid rules in April -May ....so....

12-07-2020 12:11PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Who is this nonsense directed at? "An all out assault"? On what. In 30 years they never rose above the murder of unarmed civilians at their homes or the cowardly bomb in a shop

Ah here....the over whelmingly targeted security forces (something like 80%+ attacks)....i dunno what you consuming for info,but your are spectacularly misinformed

You are free to dislike them,but to pedel lies only undermines yourself

Randy Archer · 12-07-2020 12:14PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Amid the personal invective you are just stereotyping again.

'Allowing the police to do their job'? That simply doesn't stack up. The Gardai and PSNI know who is behind most of the stuff, what are they waiting for from the public?

8 years of escalating attacks and they did nothing until a man got savagely attacked.
They know who killed Paul Quinn, the PSNI know and the IMC know, yet nothing done.

There is a story here but it isn't the stereotypical lazy one you are telling.

Deal with the facts, not crying like a bitch. Facts aren’t abuse. If you have problems with said facts , go to the children’s section ,or do what you always do, report to mods to silence people. Crying about your hurt feelings to facts is no rebuttal

Go talk to YOUR people as to why they refused to report and co-operate with the police . Stuff like this is on you and your twisted community

You Shinners are great lads for telling people to go to the police, but it’s for show. Ye know damn well that they won’t because they know what happens to touts in bandit country

You do realise that the Quinn’s are loved up there and have a huge band of loyalists , rights...there’d be no talking. The new board weren’t popular up there either by the community , shire they took over “our Seanie’s” empire

McMurphy · 12-07-2020 12:19PM

Randy Archer wrote: »

Two different States , you know this

Which has exactly the square root of fcuk all to do with what I asked.

One way the funeral of an IRA member, an illegal organisation, attended by members of Parliament on both sides of the border - you know, people who play a role in the making of policy and laws

The other was a funeral of a member of the Gardai, murdered while on duty .

It’s pretty clear the the disdain revolves around the background of the dead person rather than How many attended .

Don’t recall that the usual cohort of politicians ,President etc attending the funeral in Mayo. I could be wrong but Could you confirm if they did and who attended . One would assume Mayo finest and lover of funerals , Michael Ring was at it ? Enda?

We saw a massive travellers funeral ignore with impunity the Covid rules in April -May ....so....

As has been pointed out repeatedly now on this and various other thread's, it doesn't matter one iota who was inside the coffin, or what politcal persuasion the mourners in attendance had.

The virus doesn't care.

The virus only wants fresh human hosts so it can multiply itself and spread to other human hosts.

In both Bobby Storey's funeral, and that of Garda Horkans funeral we seen hundreds if not thousands break the health guidelines for social distancing put in place to try and curtail it transferring between hosts and being transferred to new hosts in different parts of the country.

When you have a coherent answer as to why one funeral breaking the protocols was acceptable and the other was not, I'll be here all ears. Incidentally I'm of the opinion both sets of mourners were wrong.

The usual "Sinn Fein IRA" nonsense with a sprinkle of "Garda killed in action state funeral" won't cut the mustard randy, as I already stated the virus wouldn't give a sh1t.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2020 12:22PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Who is this nonsense directed at? "An all out assault"? On what. In 30 years they never rose above the murder of unarmed civilians at their homes or the cowardly bomb in a shop. Was there a plan to invade Wales in "an all out assault"? Adams and McGuinness murdered their way to power and carved up NI between themselves the DUP. Who do you hope to sell this "peacemaker" crap to. Plus the IRA are a criminal gang . There is no "debate" . If Gerry is getting what he wants all alternative views wete dealt with by Bobby Storey and Stakeknife

Once you write sentences like that it is clear that you have a biased agenda and have no interest in debate.

I detested the violence but I have not let that alter the facts and the facts are that the IRA caused the British major problems and struck at the very heart of their political and economic activity many times.
And when it reached a stalemate (which the British accepted it was too) they negotiated the peace...if that makes them 'peacemakers' then that is what they were...indisputably.

You can accept that and let it inform your understanding of the history or ignore it and invent your own warped narrative.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2020 12:28PM

Randy Archer wrote: »

Deal with the facts, not crying like a bitch. Facts aren’t abuse. If you have problems with said facts , go to the children’s section ,or do what you always do, report to mods to silence people. Crying about your hurt feelings to facts is no rebuttal

Go talk to YOUR people as to why they refused to report and co-operate with the police . Stuff like this is on you and your twisted community

You Shinners are great lads for telling people to go to the police, but it’s for show. Ye know damn well that they won’t because they know what happens to touts in bandit country

You do realise that the Quinn’s are loved up there and have a huge band of loyalists , rights...there’d be no talking. The new board weren’t popular up there either by the community , shire they took over “our Seanie’s” empire

:D:DMore stereotyping...'YOUR people'?

You do realise that all the former Quinn businesses are working away and employing those people without problem?

If you were not so lazy you would see that.

The Quinn issue is coming from a very small cohort of people, and they were allowed operate for 8 years without an arrest of any major effort from the Gardai to stop it.
Start there, and ask questions and stop trying to depict many different people as some sort of organised body.
It is again a false and lazy as sin narrative being peddled.

Randy Archer · 12-07-2020 12:43PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm delighted the IRA are gone, but there is no point lying about it either. The above is the British/Unionist centric version of how it all played out and is faulty.

No doubt the British had spies but the IRA cellular structure limited what they could do. That is evidenced by the IRA's big hits during this period. Also the IRA decommissioned on their terms, nobody else's. The British were forced to drop that demand and allow an armed group to the table basically.
And I think mercifully Adams and McGuinness won the debate for hearts and minds within the movement. They came to a crossroads, an all out assault or take the political road.

These are facts ! The IRA couldn’t go on . Militarily maybe, but they didn’t have public support. The ceasefire harmed the IRA . The Brits had gained ground with infiltration . Donaldson had humiliated the IRA and SF and would later pay for it , as rat bastards do.

The British managed to stop several key planned operations . Suppose Darkie Hughes is a bitter liar too, Or the scum who split with the Provos post 1998 , since you seem to know so much to be able to deny reality

Oh sure, the IRA snuck in some high profile bombing post 1994 but the deaths of Jerry McCabe and the Manchester bombing obliterated any remaining support for them . Add to recent killings of drug gangs in Dublin (eg The General) that harmed Republican prisoners trying to get released ... SF at the time (Pre 1998) were banned from talks and only got in Once the IRA put down the guns - sounds like defeat

The IRA DECOMMISSIONED ON THEIR OWN TERMS, NO ONE ELSES - ha ha ha , thanks for the laugh
Spare us the lies about your delight. You are an unashamedly apologist for the IRA . OWN IT

12-07-2020 12:50PM

Randy Archer wrote: »

These are facts ! The IRA couldn’t go on . Militarily maybe, but they didn’t have public support. The ceasefire harmed the IRA . The Brits had gained ground with infiltration . Donaldson had humiliated the IRA and SF and would later pay for it , as rat bastards do.

The British managed to stop several key planned operations . Suppose Darkie Hughes is a bitter liar too, Or the scum who split with the Provos post 1998 , since you seem to know so much to be able to deny reality

Oh sure, the IRA snuck in some high profile bombing post 1994 but the deaths of Jerry McCabe and the Manchester bombing obliterated any remaining support for them . Add to recent killings of drug gangs in Dublin (eg The General) that harmed Republican prisoners trying to get released ... SF at the time (Pre 1998) were banned from talks and only got in Once the IRA put down the guns - sounds like defeat

The IRA DECOMMISSIONED ON THEIR OWN TERMS, NO ONE ELSES - ha ha ha , thanks for the laugh
Spare us the lies about your delight. You are an unashamedly apologist for the IRA . OWN IT

Donaldson was informing since the mid 80s i taught??

Why was his influence so stragetic important during ceasefire?

Didnt mi5 in 6 counties lose most of it senior leadership in a single incident in the mid 90s,after which major said they were fighting the ira blind??

Like your pushing your personal view as fact,which your free to do......but its not gospel truth

Randy Archer · 12-07-2020 01:01PM

McMurphy wrote: »

Which has exactly the square root of fcuk all to do with what I asked.

As has been pointed out repeatedly now on this and various other thread's, it doesn't matter one iota who was inside the coffin, or what politcal persuasion the mourners in attendance had.

The virus doesn't care.

The virus only wants fresh human hosts so it can multiply itself and spread to other human hosts.

In both Bobby Storey's funeral, and that of Garda Horkans funeral we seen hundreds if not thousands break the health guidelines for social distancing put in place to try and curtail it transferring between hosts and being transferred to new hosts in different parts of the country.

When you have a coherent answer as to why one funeral breaking the protocols was acceptable and the other was not, I'll be here all ears. Incidentally I'm of the opinion both sets of mourners were wrong.

The usual "Sinn Fein IRA" nonsense with a sprinkle of "Garda killed in action state funeral" won't cut the mustard randy, as I already stated the virus wouldn't give a sh1t.

Of course The fact that two different States Existing has plenty to do with it .

The South can’t do a single thing about the breach of Covid rules in the North , not a single thing .

So why talk about the Garda funeral ? We are talking about the funeral in the North attended by law makers

We saw the Gardai do absolutely nothing about the breaches of the rules for a travellers funeral In Cork that made headlineS at Easter

Oh it very much matters as to who is inside the coffin !! SF members are suppose to be law makers on both sides of the border. Yet they attend the funeral of a terrorist , who sought the destruction of NI and refused to recognise this State

The virus is a complete diversion and an excuse by Anti Shinners to hang them for it. It’s disingenuous, least I’m honest to call out the real Reason for the distain

You whinging about something that happened outside our state to justify comparing it to the Garda funeral is laughable .

Again, can you confirm which Law makers From Leinster House attended the Garda funeral ? Don’t hear anyone whinging about the public attending it, just picking on the politicians

As for your apparent concerns about Covid and rule breach, which if you are genuine, fair enough... but let’s get real, the public have been flouting the rules for some time now .

The complaints about Shinners attending the IRA funeral on the grounds of Covid are disingenuous , Unionists would try anything. But from a political point of view, I don’t recall our law makers attending the Garda funeral, whereas law makers from SF did attend that funeral _ these are the same people who went ape **** about Leo Varadkar being seen out in the Phoenix Park with friends a month ago _ despite ignoring the fact that he wasn’t breaching the protocols and he was within 5km of where he was staying

Had it being a PSNI funeral, both Blondie O’Neill and Arlene would have gone

Randy Archer · 12-07-2020 01:04PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:DMore stereotyping...'YOUR people'?

You do realise that all the former Quinn businesses are working away and employing those people without problem?

If you were not so lazy you would see that.

The Quinn issue is coming from a very small cohort of people, and they were allowed operate for 8 years without an arrest of any major effort from the Gardai to stop it.
Start there, and ask questions and stop trying to depict many different people as some sort of organised body.
It is again a false and lazy as sin narrative being peddled.

“All Quinn business are working away and employing those people without problem “

And yet, board members of the said Quinn group have being assaulted and kidnapped. You can’t do much up there without the public knowing

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2020 01:22PM

Randy Archer wrote: »

“All Quinn business are working away and employing those people without problem “

And yet, board members of the said Quinn group have being assaulted and kidnapped. You can’t do much up there without the public knowing

One of 'Quinn's' former business.

Liberty, weren't put off investing and are employing many people, including several members of my direct family, on both sides of the border.
The Hotels formerly own by Quinn are operating away too.

Some of the public probably know what is going on, but again that applies to any situation elsewhere.

Your slant is to characterise and stereotype an entire community and region as being complicit in silence about it to avoid looking elsewhere and asking questions.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2020 01:29PM

Randy Archer wrote: »

The IRA DECOMMISSIONED ON THEIR OWN TERMS, NO ONE ELSES - ha ha ha , thanks for the laugh
Spare us the lies about your delight. You are an unashamedly apologist for the IRA . OWN IT

Where is the laugh?

The IRA did not finish decommissioning until 2005, 7 years after the GFA was signed.
That is a FACT, check the IMC reports.

That means the British negotiated an International agreement with an armed group in the mix.
If that is a definition of 'surrender' then you have invented a new definition of it.

The story that has been peddled emanates from those who want to cover British and Unionist blushes.

Nobody 'won'.
We were lucky IMO that the right people were in charge across the political spectrum to grab the chance to negotiate a peace.
That includes Unionist and Republican, Irish and British.

Randy Archer · 12-07-2020 01:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Donaldson was informing since the mid 80s i taught??

Why was his influence so stragetic important during ceasefire?

Didnt mi5 in 6 counties lose most of it senior leadership in a single incident in the mid 90s,after which major said they were fighting the ira blind??

Like your pushing your personal view as fact,which your free to do......but its not gospel truth

Read what I actually said . I know you have difficulties with it

Nothing in what was said even implied that Donaldson only started as an agent in the 1990s ..ffs . During the ceasefire, Donaldson was sent to the US to raise funds and meet with comrades in NORAID over there .

Secondly, Donaldson was only one name of three that I specifically mentioned

Fighting IRA blind ? Lol, wishful thinking . Wanna actually back that up with sources , eh ?

12-07-2020 01:52PM

Randy Archer wrote: »

Read what I actually said . I know you have difficulties with it

I read before,yous said a mod told you i reported a list of yours....but that seems to been a lie??

Can you back it up,nor name said mod?

Nothing in what was said even implied that Donaldson only started as an agent in the 1990s ..ffs . During the ceasefire, Donaldson was sent to the US to raise funds and meet with comrades in NORAID over there .

Secondly, Donaldson was only one name of three that I specifically mentioned

I never said anything to contary of this,bit yous seem to place huge importance of his informing during ceasefire period,what informs this??

Fighting IRA blind ? Lol, wishful thinking . Wanna actually back that up with sources , eh ?

No hassle,when you provide proof of which mod said i reported your post,bit irrational to demand evidence off anyone,while refusing to do so yourself

Truthvader · 12-07-2020 09:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah here....the over whelmingly targeted security forces (something like 80%+ attacks)....i dunno what you consuming for info,but your are spectacularly misinformed

You are free to dislike them,but to pedel lies only undermines yourself

So why were half of the people they killed from their own community?

Truthvader · 12-07-2020 09:29PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Once you write sentences like that it is clear that you have a biased agenda and have no interest in debate.

I detested the violence but I have not let that alter the facts and the facts are that the IRA caused the British major problems and struck at the very heart of their political and economic activity many times.
And when it reached a stalemate (which the British accepted it was too) they negotiated the peace...if that makes them 'peacemakers' then that is what they were...indisputably.

You can accept that and let it inform your understanding of the history or ignore it and invent your own warped narrative.

Not killing simply because you got what you want doesn't make you a peacemaker.

Any word on how its going with the Guards/PSNI on all that crime you are reporting?

maccored · 12-07-2020 09:50PM

Randy Archer wrote: »

IRA in Collins time didn’t rob banks or Post Offices either

they killed RIC officers in their beds though.

maccored · 12-07-2020 09:54PM

Truthvader wrote: »

So why were half of the people they killed from their own community?

say what again? are you saying half of the people killed by the ira were from their own communities? in saying that around 400 catholics (338) were killed by the IRA .... you do the maths.

Truthvader · 12-07-2020 10:01PM

maccored wrote: »

say what again? are you saying half of the people killed by the ira were from their own communities? in saying that around 400 catholics (338) were killed by the IRA .... you do the maths.

Statistics attached. Apologies. Half civilians

https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html

12-07-2020 10:17PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Statistics attached. Apologies. Half civilians

https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html

Your using 2 different source points....but the 400 odd catholic figure,your citing includes ira members who blew emselves up,killed as informers aswell.

Im unsure if it include the 12 republican hunger striker deaths aswell??

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2020 11:07PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Not killing simply because you got what you want doesn't make you a peacemaker.

Any word on how its going with the Guards/PSNI on all that crime you are reporting?

If you turn a blind eye to the facts you are not going to see the efforts made.
Carry on, you are trying to construct a false narrative. And as we have seen with your dubious 'statistics' that narrative fails when it is challenged by the facts.

Adam9213 · 12-07-2020 11:16PM

Truthvader wrote: »

So why were half of the people they killed from their own community?

According to CAIN, the IRA was responsible for at least 1,705 deaths, about 48% of the total conflict deaths. Of these, at least 1,009 (about 59%) were members or former members of the British security forces, while at least 508 (about 29%) were civilians.

The civilian figure also includes civilians employed by British forces, politicians, members of the judiciary, and alleged criminals and informers. Most of the remainder were loyalist or republican paramilitary members; including over 100 IRA members accidentally killed by their own bombs or shot for being security force agents or informers. Overall, the IRA was responsible for over 90% of the total British security force deaths, and 27–30% of the total civilian deaths in the conflict.

timthumbni · 12-07-2020 11:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Im unsure if it include the 12 republican hunger striker deaths aswell??

Who knows? Though they did kill themselves or the republican leadership did not discourage them otherwise than to kill themselves. Great bit of propaganda for the provos/SF and also gave them great business opportunities to sell commemorative hunger strike dinner plates to dopey Irish Americans. (Or was it big slap up banquet fundraisers there. I can never remember.)

Edit.. probably both

Adam9213 · 12-07-2020 11:52PM

timthumbni wrote: »

Who knows? Though they did kill themselves or the republican leadership did not discourage them otherwise than to kill themselves. Great bit of propaganda for the provos/SF and also gave them great business opportunities to sell commemorative hunger strike dinner plates to dopey Irish Americans. (Or was it big slap up banquet fundraisers there. I can never remember.)

If you actually had any clue what you were talking about you would know the IRA at first opposed Bobby Sands plans to start a hunger strike but Bobby insisted.

The strike was more about psychological warfare than anything else on one side you had Margaret Thatcher (British state) a posh snob sipping tea in her palace and on the other you had Bobby Sands (IRA) starving himself to death rambling about how much he loves his country.

From an international standpoint Thatcher was representing the British state and Bobby Sands was representing the IRA.

timthumbni · 13-07-2020 12:04AM

Adam9213 wrote: »

If you actually had any clue what you were talking about you would know the IRA at first opposed Bobby Sands plans to start a hunger strike but Bobby insisted.

The strike was more about psychological warfare than anything else on one side you had Margaret Thatcher (British state) a posh snob sipping tea in her palace and on the other you had Bobby Sands (IRA) starving himself to death rambling about how much he loves his country.

From an international standpoint Thatcher was representing the British state and Bobby Sands was representing the IRA.

I’m from Northern Ireland. I have very much a clue pal. Sure haven’t a few of the hunger striker families told SF to F off. Rambling is your words not mine.

As I said at least rich Irish Americans could buy the souvenir dinner plate or pay a 1000 bucks to have a big slap up feed and a rake of pints in their honour. Delicious.

Adam9213 · 13-07-2020 12:06AM

timthumbni wrote: »

I’m from Northern Ireland. I have very much a clue pal. Sure haven’t a few of the hunger striker families told SF to F off. Rambling is your words not mine.

As I said at least rich Irish Americans could buy the souvenir dinner plate or pay a 1000 bucks to have a big slap up feed and a rake of pints in their honour. Delicious.

It annoys me when people are from Northern Ireland they automatically assume they know all about it.

Yeah they did but that's irrelevant.

timthumbni · 13-07-2020 12:12AM

Adam9213 wrote: »

It annoys me when people are from Northern Ireland they automatically assume they know all about it.

Yeah they did but that's irrelevant.

That’s a couple of strange sentences you have just posted. So you agree that Yes I know what I’m talking about as I’m actually from NI, but it’s irrelevant.

Okay I suppose.

Adam9213 · 13-07-2020 12:18AM

timthumbni wrote: »

That’s a couple of strange sentences you have just posted. So you agree that Yes I know what I’m talking about as I’m actually from NI, but it’s irrelevant.

Okay I suppose.

Just cause you're from Northern Ireland doesn't mean you're educated on the troubles is what I was saying.

When you say you're from Northern Ireland I don't automatically think oh well then he must know what he's talking about.

timthumbni · 13-07-2020 12:22AM

Adam9213 wrote: »

Just cause you're from Northern Ireland doesn't mean you're educated on the troubles is what I was saying.

That’s possibly correct I suppose. But I am very “educated” regarding the troubles. I take it you aren’t from NI. ?

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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