Benefits of Public Sector over Private Sector

gmisk · 08-07-2020 4:32pm

UpBack1234 wrote: »

1. You won't be getting 30 days annual leave within your first decade working in the public service unless you carry over untaken leave from the previous period and 2. Unpaid leave is not something you can just take because you want a 'little holiday'. In general there has to be a valid reason given to a manager.

Not entirely true it depends on grade.
Much lower at CO EO etc but APs get 30 days for example but zero flexi etc.

Kamu · 08-07-2020 4:38pm

gmisk wrote: »

Not entirely true it depends on grade.
Much lower at CO EO etc but APs get 30 days for example but zero flexi etc.

Though there is the option of Shorter Working year.

Not sure the terms of that now, but i know 2, 4 and 6 weeks were offered in my Department, and 13 weeks were offered previously at Local Authority Level (which I believe they've now removed that option).

doc22 · 08-07-2020 4:57pm

gmisk wrote: »

Complete garbage.
I started as a CO and I am now an AP.

I think about 25 percent of ASECs and 35 percent at PO are woman!

There are of course efforts to promote equal opportunities as there should be.

In some departments it's an open joke when the promotion list come around that It's all women(in order to make the gender balance equal at grade)

ThumbTaxed · 08-07-2020 5:11pm

gmisk wrote: »

Complete garbage.
I started as a CO and I am now an AP.

I think about 25 percent of ASECs and 35 percent at PO are woman!

There are of course efforts to promote equal opportunities as there should be.

You are focusing on the historic data. Focus on the rebalancing of those numbers by promoting women over men at any opportunity

SouthWesterly · 08-07-2020 6:49pm

My office has 20 people. 4 are men. Predominantly female in the building.

Astro127 · 08-07-2020 6:49pm

UpBack1234 wrote: »

1. You won't be getting 30 days annual leave within your first decade working in the public service unless you carry over untaken leave from the previous period and 2. Unpaid leave is not something you can just take because you want a 'little holiday'. In general there has to be a valid reason given to a manager.

All depends on your contract, even then there are ways around taking time off lol

I get the average annual leave but I make extra money on the side so I use that to spend on a hoilday so that brings be up to around 30 days holidays a year .
I'm not really losing my weekly wage as its covered so I can easily take a extra week off to go away . At the end of the day it's not hurting anyone not like I'm still getting payed while I'm on holiday ..

Itchianus · 09-07-2020 12:09am

doc22 wrote: »

In some departments it's an open joke when the promotion list come around that It's all women(in order to make the gender balance equal at grade)

A couple of years ago, one particular civil service entitity articulated an explicit target of achieving gender balance at the PO grade by 2020 (at a time when it was 36% female), which arithmetically was going to require that at least 70% of the 30-odd expected appointments in the intervening period would need to be female. (At the time, the representation at AP grade was about 46% female, which is relevant as this is the primary pool from which appointments were filled.)

As it transpired, due to female PO's retiring, getting A-Sec or transferring out in the intervening period, it would ultimately require about 85% of PO positions to go to women. But, against all statistical likelihood, that's exactly what happened, and they have been able to happily report on their accomplishment.

It's a remarkable thing. If the opposite were the case, and over a 3-5 year period 85% of a substantial number of appointments were male, there would be absolute uproar and consternation, and rightly so. There'd be all sorts of reviews, introspection and soul searching to establish why / how the organisation can't attract an appropriate quantity of high calibre female candidates, or why the female candidates are underperforming in the process. Apparently though, that is only a concern when the seesaw is tilted a particular direction.

The really interesting thing will be seeing what happens next. Balance has been achieved now, in fact there's a majority of females in both the AP and PO grades. So there's no apparent reason that the trend in appointments should change; apparently there's nothing to see here in terms of the outcome of the last 5-10 years of appointments which arose at a time when 30-45% of the candidate pool obtained 75% of the positions.

Of course, pointing out things like this, just gets you labelled a misogynist.

SouthWesterly · 09-07-2020 4:15pm

Itchianus wrote: »

A couple of years ago, one particular civil service entitity articulated an explicit target of achieving gender balance at the PO grade by 2020 (at a time when it was 36% female), which arithmetically was going to require that at least 70% of the 30-odd expected appointments in the intervening period would need to be female. (At the time, the representation at AP grade was about 46% female, which is relevant as this is the primary pool from which appointments were filled.)

As it transpired, due to female PO's retiring, getting A-Sec or transferring out in the intervening period, it would ultimately require about 85% of PO positions to go to women. But, against all statistical likelihood, that's exactly what happened, and they have been able to happily report on their accomplishment.

It's a remarkable thing. If the opposite were the case, and over a 3-5 year period 85% of a substantial number of appointments were male, there would be absolute uproar and consternation, and rightly so. There'd be all sorts of reviews, introspection and soul searching to establish why / how the organisation can't attract an appropriate quantity of high calibre female candidates, or why the female candidates are underperforming in the process. Apparently though, that is only a concern when the seesaw is tilted a particular direction.

The really interesting thing will be seeing what happens next. Balance has been achieved now, in fact there's a majority of females in both the AP and PO grades. So there's no apparent reason that the trend in appointments should change; apparently there's nothing to see here in terms of the outcome of the last 5-10 years of appointments which arose at a time when 30-45% of the candidate pool obtained 75% of the positions.

Of course, pointing out things like this, just gets you labelled a misogynist.

Makes a good case for someone identifying as female just to get the position!

AndrewJRenko · 09-07-2020 4:41pm

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Downside with some public sector roles is that you have no chance of getting a promotion unless you are a female. There is literally a published mandate to fill positions with women.

That may suit some of course.

Could you identify this published mandate please?

kippy · 09-07-2020 5:12pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Could you identify this published mandate please?

It exists. Just not sure where the public version of it is.

AndrewJRenko · 09-07-2020 6:22pm

kippy wrote: »

It exists. Just not sure where the public version of it is.

If it exists (which I doubt), it will be in here

https://www.gov.ie/en/circulars/

Looking forward to a link or reference

Hotblack Desiato · 09-07-2020 7:03pm

Great excuse for unsuccessful candidates...

Given that CO and EO (definitely) and HEO (I think) grades are now majority female, wouldn't you expect to see a majority of successful candidates promoted out of these grades to be female also?

kippy · 09-07-2020 10:38pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If it exists (which I doubt), it will be in here

https://www.gov.ie/en/circulars/

Looking forward to a link or reference

You are just gonna have to believe us. I was shocked myself when I read it in an email a number of years ago while in a particular department.

Itchianus · 09-07-2020 11:17pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If it exists (which I doubt), it will be in here

https://www.gov.ie/en/circulars/

Looking forward to a link or reference

Well I don't know if it's what the previous poster was referring to but the policy of appointing based on gender as a tie-breaker at TLAC level, is published.

https://www.thejournal.ie/gender-balance-civil-service-3188442-Jan2017/

AndrewJRenko · 09-07-2020 11:48pm

kippy wrote: »

You are just gonna have to believe us.

I'm not.

kippy · 09-07-2020 11:51pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm not.

Sound.
No loss on me.

antimatterx · 10-07-2020 11:03am

I don't think I could ever do public sector work.

I hate the attitude of "thats not my job", or how long it takes to get stuff done.

Divisadero · 10-07-2020 12:38pm

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't think I could ever do public sector work.

I hate the attitude of "thats not my job", or how long it takes to get stuff done.

Very insightful. You're obviously yet another expert on the matter. Keep up the hard work. You're an inspiration and I admire your 'private sector' work ethic. Like a good Civil Servant I will keep doing the bare minimum whilst drooling on my desk between infinite tea breaks. Thanks for all your hard work. You're a real hero. You sound like another corporate martyr really. Please keep it up. My fantastic salary and gold plated pension won't pay for themselves.

GooglePlus · 10-07-2020 12:41pm

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't think I could ever do public sector work.

I hate the attitude of "thats not my job", or how long it takes to get stuff done.

Haven't experienced that myself during my time.

I think that mindset is a thing of the past, it's all go where I am and most people have a good work ethic.

JimmyVik · 10-07-2020 12:46pm

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't think I could ever do public sector work.

I hate the attitude of "thats not my job", or how long it takes to get stuff done.

Theres a lot of that where I work.

SouthWesterly · 10-07-2020 12:50pm

What's work.
I'm sitting around all day looking at my garden.

o1s1n · 10-07-2020 12:54pm

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't think I could ever do public sector work.

I hate the attitude of "thats not my job", or how long it takes to get stuff done.

Recently made the move from private to public myself.

There's lots to be done and everyone I work with has a great work ethic, but there's definitely a different pace to the private sector jobs I've worked my whole life.

At first it felt slow, but after 6 months of it it kind of feels nice to not be incredibly stressed and climbing the walls every day.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-07-2020 1:13pm

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't think I could ever do public sector work.

I hate the attitude of "thats not my job", or how long it takes to get stuff done.

Yeah cause that never happens in the private sector :rolleyes:

Ever rang Eir support? Or tried to contact Ryanair? Or cancel Sky? Or get a refund from Aer Lingus?

Sinzo · 10-07-2020 2:23pm

EXACTLY... point well made.. or

Have you ever tried to get a plumber?
After 3 different candidates you get one who answers.
Says hes not available til next week. Week passes and no contact. Call again. He apologised for not getting back. Very busy. Said he can fit me in at the end of the week.

Calls to house. Fixes a pin hole in ballcock in attic and replaces a syphon in one of the toilets. Cool 150 euro for the privilege...

Yes, the private sector is so efficient and such value for money...

SouthWesterly · 10-07-2020 3:27pm

Sinzo wrote: »

EXACTLY... point well made.. or

Have you ever tried to get a plumber?
After 3 different candidates you get one who answers.
Says hes not available til next week. Week passes and no contact. Call again. He apologised for not getting back. Very busy. Said he can fit me in at the end of the week.

Calls to house. Fixes a pin hole in ballcock in attic and replaces a syphon in one of the toilets. Cool 150 euro for the privilege...

Yes, the private sector is so efficient and such value for money...

Wonder could your plumber fix my kid. He keeps, leaking at the slightest thing. Water comes out of his eyes.

Sinzo · 10-07-2020 7:18pm

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Wonder could your plumber fix my kid. He keeps, leaking at the slightest thing. Water comes out of his eyes.

Give him a call today and your child can expect a session within a couple of months provided,of course, you call him on least 3 occasions beforehand to remind him.... you might get lucky. And he'll only charge you 50 quid over the odds...

Treppen · 10-07-2020 9:30pm

Sinzo wrote: »

EXACTLY... point well made.. or

Have you ever tried to get a plumber?
After 3 different candidates you get one who answers.
Says hes not available til next week. Week passes and no contact. Call again. He apologised for not getting back. Very busy. Said he can fit me in at the end of the week.

Calls to house. Fixes a pin hole in ballcock in attic and replaces a syphon in one of the toilets. Cool 150 euro for the privilege...

Yes, the private sector is so efficient and such value for money...

Sounds like a good experience compared to mine

ThumbTaxed · 10-07-2020 10:09pm

Itchianus wrote: »

A couple of years ago, one particular civil service entitity articulated an explicit target of achieving gender balance at the PO grade by 2020 (at a time when it was 36% female), which arithmetically was going to require that at least 70% of the 30-odd expected appointments in the intervening period would need to be female. (At the time, the representation at AP grade was about 46% female, which is relevant as this is the primary pool from which appointments were filled.)

As it transpired, due to female PO's retiring, getting A-Sec or transferring out in the intervening period, it would ultimately require about 85% of PO positions to go to women. But, against all statistical likelihood, that's exactly what happened, and they have been able to happily report on their accomplishment.

It's a remarkable thing. If the opposite were the case, and over a 3-5 year period 85% of a substantial number of appointments were male, there would be absolute uproar and consternation, and rightly so. There'd be all sorts of reviews, introspection and soul searching to establish why / how the organisation can't attract an appropriate quantity of high calibre female candidates, or why the female candidates are underperforming in the process. Apparently though, that is only a concern when the seesaw is tilted a particular direction.

The really interesting thing will be seeing what happens next. Balance has been achieved now, in fact there's a majority of females in both the AP and PO grades. So there's no apparent reason that the trend in appointments should change; apparently there's nothing to see here in terms of the outcome of the last 5-10 years of appointments which arose at a time when 30-45% of the candidate pool obtained 75% of the positions.

Of course, pointing out things like this, just gets you labelled a misogynist.

Well said

addaword · 11-07-2020 8:35am

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't think I could ever do public sector work.

I hate the attitude of "thats not my job", or how long it takes to get stuff done.

Nail on the head there and you are quite correct. Often the old saying still applies, the amount of time it takes to do something is the amount of time available. Which in the public service is generally a very long time

11-07-2020 9:05am

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't think I could ever do public sector work.

I hate the attitude of "thats not my job", or how long it takes to get stuff done.

I worked in both private and public sectors. There was plenty of that not my job in the private sector.

It tends to happen when staff are being asked to do some lazy feckers job for them.

Stop trying to present the private sector as infallible. We have strong employment laws here it's not easy to get rid of staff. We are not America. Plenty of lazy clock watchers survive perfectly well in the private sector.

Benefits of Public Sector over Private Sector

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