How will schools be able to go back in September?

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes, staff are included in the memos I have seen.

These 'memos' currently have no legal standing. Just some private schools throwing their weight around.

average_runner wrote: »

The 14 day thing is a good idea.

Agree it is a good idea but has no legal standing for their staff that are paid by the dept. Those paid privately by the school could have it written into their contract for this year. As for the students, I'd imagine one parent threatening legal action would blow it out the door.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Agree it is a good idea but has no legal standing for their staff that are paid by the dept. Those paid privately by the school could have it written into their contract for this year. As for the students, I'd imagine one parent threatening legal action would blow it out the door.

Oh could u imagine the PR if teachers didnt follow it. 14 days unpaid also.

Nurses on the frontline following it.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Do you know if the 14 day period applies just to the policies being drawn up by private schools or to all schools?

Just some private schools doing it off their own bat. It's not in any way national policy but I am saying it could be a good idea to give everyone confidence.

Some Boarding schools are running a 'quarantine camp' for international students and asking them to come over 2 weeks before schools starts back and stay inside the school for those 14 days before the 'locals' come in.
Meanwhile the Irish kids have to have been 14 days in the country so it all seems equal.

The schools I have seen are applying it to all International and Irish kids so as not to appear to be discriminating.

the corpo wrote: »

Sam McConkey on with Ivan Yates this evening, again not dismissing that the likes of Denmark have reopened and we can follow their example. This is fine, and great for them, but I don't understand how it's possible to compare like with like.

The average Danish class size is 19 pupils, and I imagine they don't have their kids shoved into not fit for purpose buildings. Is it not the case that we are in a radically more difficult position to reopen than the rest of Europe because our schools and capacity are dramatically different?

I just get tired of the wasted air time citing how the rest of Europe is doing it, just get on with it, when they should be asking how have we allowed the Irish school system to fall so far behind. Seems to me like screaming at the teachers that they need to be put on Covid payments to wise them up rather than getting irate at the Department to fix the root problems is such wasted energy.

In fairness, there is a lot of 'Ireland is sooooo different to Europe', being pouted about here.
For example class sizes.

Irish class sizes for primary are similar to those of France and Belgium to take one example, yet they have been open since last month.



Secondary is even better and we are one of the best nations in the EU when it comes to class sizes.



So, yea the whole class size thing as a singular excuse does not hold water.

markodaly wrote: »

In fairness, there is a lot of 'Ireland is sooooo different to Europe', being pouted about here.
For example class sizes.

Irish class sizes for primary are similar to those of France and Belgium to take one example, yet they have been open since last month.



Secondary is even better and we are one of the best nations in the EU when it comes to class sizes.



So, yea the whole class size thing as a singular excuse does not hold water.

France opened with classes capped at 15 students so not a full reopening as normal and then had issues with outbreaks

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/70-cases-of-covid-19-linked-to-french-schools-days-after-reopening-1000165.html

Belgium didn't do social distancing at primary but did at secondary and only part time return at second level. They implemented temperature checks masks etc.

They also initially reopened their primary schools part time.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-belgium-schools/back-to-school-for-belgian-children-with-face-masks-and-temperature-checks-idUSKBN22R1ZJ

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/back-to-school-what-the-new-classroom-will-look-like-1.4285229


If you're going to compare at least compare the way in which they opened also.

All of the above measures are being discussed for our reopening at the moment. We seem to be trying to open fully to everyone all of the time. As far as I'm aware no where in Europe, witha
similar classroom profile to us has done that successfully yet without additional safety measures, (safety measures is what unions/the dept are currently discussing). I could stand to be corrected on that. Let me know if there is a country that reopened as normal successfully.

Isreal, though not in Europe, has a similar classroom profile to Ireland and their reopening of schools with minimal safety measures has been disasterous. We need to avoid this. The last thing we want is another lockdown.

timmy_mallet wrote: »

It's a as simple as a culture of covering your behind. Adversarilaism. Nobody will give an inch. Everybody puts the ball in each others court. "That's up the department of education to solve." "We are waiting for the government advice." None of them acting with a greater good in mind and working together to solve problems. If they worked in the private sector theyd have a different mindset or no jobs.

Unions, principals, teachers have all submitted possible solutions to the Dept of Education. Direct your anger and frustration in the right direction.

Lads, ye are arguing with someone who can’t find Belgium on a map!

I wouldn’t bother tbh.

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Well the unions will ballot their members (as they've done already without debate) to reject the advice. "Covid safety guarantee". So to suggest it's just the DoE is not quite right.

When did any or all of the three teacher unions ballot their members in this issue? Stop making stuff up. Also very apparent that in reality you have no clue how the education system in Ireland works.

History Queen wrote: »

Unions, principals, teachers have all submitted possible solutions to the Dept of Education. Direct your anger and frustration in the right direction.

All of the suggestions/ideas contained in them have been ignored as they require the government to provide funding.

timmy_mallet wrote: »

It's a as simple as a culture of covering your behind. Adversarilaism. Nobody will give an inch. Everybody puts the ball in each others court. "That's up the department of education to solve." "We are waiting for the government advice." None of them acting with a greater good in mind and working together to solve problems. If they worked in the private sector theyd have a different mindset or no jobs.

Seriously - the best you can do is allude to the private sector. I would be very interested in a list of private sector employers who facilitate/ allow employees(teachers) and or managers (principals) to dictate policy and run the buisness however they feel like it. Dep is responsible for the running of schools. Schools are bound to implement policy dictated by Dep. They don't get to chose what they like and don't like.

I haven't the time or patience to add links for you but if you are genuinely interested in how schools can reopen safely in September and not simply Teachers bad , unions bad public sector bad then there are numerous sources which highlight how the INTO and IPPN have engaged with the process.

If you bother to read the thread you will also see how at a local level schools are trying to get ahead of this and trying to have some sort of contingency plan based on the HSE advice that is available at present and or possible scenarios the dep may come up with. Of course no one acknowledges this commitment because it doesn't suit the narrative.

History Queen wrote: »

Only the Department of Education can decide to open schools. Blaming teachers and Unions shows you have a fundamental lack of understanding of how the education system works.

It is, of course, convenient to blame all and sundry on the department of Education. Sure the department can open schools tomorrow, nothing stopping them per se, but then the next question from the intransigence Unions will be a tome of guidelines and policies for every such eventuality, which of courses takes a lot of time, effort, talking, more time, money, yet more talking, negotiations and then agreement.

Put it this way, every other sector of the country is open to some degree, apart from schools. So, are the people working in the Dept. of Education less able then any other department say in Health or Social Welfare, or is there something else going on?

The teacher Unions have a reputation for being quite difficult so one can draw its own conclusions as to why in July Ireland is one of the few countries in the world that still haven't re-opened it schools.

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I was listening to Josepha Madigan speak on the Tonight Show with Ivan Yates on Tuesday. She said guidelines will soon be published to help wong reopening. Were guidelines not published last week to aid with this? Is there more guidelines to come?

There’s more to come. That was an interim document. The issuing of “guidelines” will continue ad infinitum. It’s what the department do best.

markodaly wrote: »

I hear the teacher Unions want a guideline on how to open a door and how to pour a cup of tea.

I hear some people are capable of an original thought.