Is it just me or have SF vanished?

dundalkfc10 · 08-07-2020 02:32PM

More talk yet again in here than on the Govt thread even after their first week went tits up from day 1 and is getting worse

James Brown · 08-07-2020 02:33PM

rdwight wrote: »

I've never been to a funeral at a cemetery when the the deceased was going to cremated several miles away.

Means nothing. I couldn't tell you were the people were cremated at the ones I was at. It didn't play into the service.

blanch152 · 08-07-2020 02:39PM

Bowie wrote: »

That's pretty desperate. You've never been to a funeral with a cremation? It's usually the exact same except theres no graveside burial.

I have never seen a coffin brought to say DeansGrange or Mulhuddart graveyards before going to Glasnevin for cremation.

A fake funeral for political purposes certainly seems to be where we are at now.

joeguevara · 08-07-2020 02:39PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

I don't expect there to be any fines to be meated out

Attached is a quick Google for you
You will need a sub to search the Irish Times by day
The specific regulation will be on ni.gov.co.uk somewhere
If you haven't found them yourself by later,I'll certainly look them up for you

several news outlets yesterday and the day before

Had a look. That fine in the Irish Times sscreenshot for 1k is for breaches of travel from outside the CTA and Republic.

Social distancing for first offence is €90. Nothing about funerals. Nothing about only family members and nothing about 30. Looks like there is nothing Sinn Fein can actually apologise for.

blanch152 · 08-07-2020 02:40PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

More talk yet again in here than on the Govt thread even after their first week went tits up from day 1 and is getting worse

I think that really shows what people think of the Sinn Fein shenanigans.

Happyilylost · 08-07-2020 02:46PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Had a look. That fine in the Irish Times sscreenshot for 1k is for breaches of travel from outside the CTA and Republic.

Social distancing for first o

ffence is €90. Nothing about funerals. Nothing about only family members and nothing about 30. Looks like there is nothing Sinn Fein can actually apologise for.

https://www.thejournal.ie/bobby-storey-funeral-5137876-Jun2020/

It comes after the North’s health minister – unionist Robin Swann – said the large number of attendees at the funeral today was a clear breach of Stormont restrictions limiting public gatherings to 30 people during the Covid-19 pandemic restrictions.

joeguevara · 08-07-2020 02:50PM

Happyilylost wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/bobby-storey-funeral-5137876-Jun2020/

It comes after the North’s health minister – unionist Robin Swann – said the large number of attendees at the funeral today was a clear breach of Stormont restrictions limiting public gatherings to 30 people during the Covid-19 pandemic restrictions.

Many thanks. Now, what law was broken? Highlighting the words of a newspaper and unionist is all well and good, but was a law broken? Just to be clear - guidance is not a law.

dundalkfc10 · 08-07-2020 02:51PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I think that really shows what people think of the Sinn Fein shenanigans.

No I think it shows that a handful of posters on here, would rather talk about SF than whats going on with the Govt.

And here I am in a thread, is it me or haev SF vanished.

Looks like they are not going anywhere, Good for you, you can make up more lies and deflect deflect when anyone mentions a party other than SF.

Them getting more votes than FG in the election, really really hurt people in this country and its ****ing great to see

FrancieBrady · 08-07-2020 02:51PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I have never seen a coffin brought to say DeansGrange or Mulhuddart graveyards before going to Glasnevin for cremation.

A fake funeral for political purposes certainly seems to be where we are at now.

When any party turn out for a funeral of a member and give a graveside oration and guard of honour etc...is that a funeral for 'political purposes' too?

We all know it was partly political, many funerals are used this way. The funeral of a broadcaster will eulogise his career and input...is that to be taken as an ad for the broadcaster?
Jaysus blanch do you have any self awareness at all about the level you are stooping to here?

markodaly · 08-07-2020 02:52PM

Bowie wrote: »

That's pretty desperate. You've never been to a funeral with a cremation? It's usually the exact same except theres no graveside burial.

Well, I never have been to a funeral that went all the way to a gravesite and then travelled back some miles into town towards the Crematorium after all the cameras went away.

markodaly · 08-07-2020 02:56PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When any party turn out for a funeral of a member and give a graveside oration and guard of honour etc...is that a funeral for 'political purposes' too?

A graveside oration, when the person in question was to be cremated several miles away. It is all a little bit odd and staged tbh. Right out of the Trump playbook.

It was a fake funeral to fill the SF history books of tomorrow to tell us all how Storey was a great man and Republican and a bank robber to boot.

rdwight · 08-07-2020 03:00PM

Bowie wrote: »

Means nothing. I couldn't tell you were the people were cremated at the ones I was at. It didn't play into the service.

Were you not paying attention during the service? Otherwise I would say that your experience is rare if not unique. Almost as rare as obsequies taking place in a graveyard when the deceased is in fact going to be cremated several miles away.

Happyilylost · 08-07-2020 03:01PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Many thanks. Now, what law was broken? Highlighting the words of a newspaper and unionist is all well and good, but was a law broken? Just to be clear - guidance is not a law.

Highlighted the words of the Northern Ireland Health Minister. I'm guessing he knows more about it than me. You said SF had nothing to apologies for? I think whether its law or guidance those that set the rules shouldn't be the ones to break them. Makes it harder to preach to others about complying with "guidance" when the rule markers won't even follow them.

Mortelaro · 08-07-2020 03:10PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Had a look. That fine in the Irish Times sscreenshot for 1k is for breaches of travel from outside the CTA and Republic.

Social distancing for first offence is €90. Nothing about funerals. Nothing about only family members and nothing about 30. Looks like there is nothing Sinn Fein can actually apologise for.

They are new powers adopted by Stormont from the emergency covid 19 laws passed in Westminster it seems
See attached

joeguevara · 08-07-2020 03:16PM

Happyilylost wrote: »

Highlighted the words of the Northern Ireland Health Minister. I'm guessing he knows more about it than me. You said SF had nothing to apologies for? I think whether its law or guidance those that set the rules shouldn't be the ones to break them. Makes it harder to preach to others about complying with "guidance" when the rule markers won't even follow them.

I never said they have have nothing to apologise for. I said if there is no law broken it is difficult for them to apologise. If its so important, it should be law. If its guidance, then if broken its not serious. If rule makers want it followed, make it law, if not don't call for resignations if not followed.

joeguevara · 08-07-2020 03:17PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

They are new powers adopted by Stormont from the emergency covid 19 laws passed in Westminster it seems
See attached

Each area is different. I don't think (subject to anyone showing me otherwise) there was a breach of any law in northern Ireland. If not it makes all discussion on the matter moot.

Happyilylost · 08-07-2020 03:21PM

joeguevara wrote: »

I never said they have have nothing to apologise for. I said if there is no law broken it is difficult for them to apologise. If its so important, it should be law. If its guidance, then if broken its not serious. If rule makers want it followed, make it law, if not don't call for resignations if not followed.

Nobody ever had to break a law to apologize for something. Not sure where you found a bar to set that high.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-regulations-guidance-family-and-community

Funeral services can be conducted in a place of worship or in a funeral home. The size and circumstances of the venue will determine the maximum number that can attend the service safely whilst observing social distancing of at least two metres, wherever possible.

It is recommended that face coverings are used for indoor services.

Whilst the number of mourners at a funeral service will be determined by the size of the venue following risk assessment, a maximum of only 30 are permitted to gather for the committal at the graveside.

joeguevara · 08-07-2020 03:24PM

Happyilylost wrote: »

Nobody ever had to break a law to apologize for something. Not sure where you found a bar to set that high.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-regulations-guidance-family-and-community

Funeral services can be conducted in a place of worship or in a funeral home. The size and circumstances of the venue will determine the maximum number that can attend the service safely whilst observing social distancing of at least two metres, wherever possible.

It is recommended that face coverings are used for indoor services.

Whilst the number of mourners at a funeral service will be determined by the size of the venue following risk assessment, a maximum of only 30 are permitted to gather for the committal at the graveside.

If there are being called to resign I would say at least a law, and a serious one at that, would have to be broken. So can you say was there a law broken?

There was no committal at the graveside.

Notwithstanding that there was no committal, is the 30 maximum law or guidance. Is it a family who are in charge and who is to say that the Sinn Fein members weren't part of the 30.

James Brown · 08-07-2020 03:24PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I have never seen a coffin brought to say DeansGrange or Mulhuddart graveyards before going to Glasnevin for cremation.

A fake funeral for political purposes certainly seems to be where we are at now.

You haven't lived obviously

You lads are desperate to squeeze anything out of this. Family wanted the funeral they had. That's all you need to know.

FrancieBrady · 08-07-2020 03:25PM

markodaly wrote: »

A graveside oration, when the person in question was to be cremated several miles away. It is all a little bit odd and staged tbh. Right out of the Trump playbook.

It was a fake funeral to fill the SF history books of tomorrow to tell us all how Storey was a great man and Republican and a bank robber to boot.

Absolutely, it was staged. It was the funeral of a major political figure.

Are we gonna engage in some naivety now?

Fake funeral only applies if there were people there who din't know what was happening.
The PSNI clearly knew, the priest clearly knew, those who read the arrangements knew, those who watched as family and friends left for the crematorium knew.

markodaly · 08-07-2020 03:27PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely, it was staged.

Staged and fake.

rdwight · 08-07-2020 03:34PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Im asking for broken laws not broken spirits. Please try again and does it ever say specifically about family members carrying coffins. Also please reference the date of the ceremony to the law. Please don't use 'looks like' if you don't know the answer.

Is that you Dominic?

Preventing the spread of covid has been driven by people observing the spirit of the law as well as the letter. People stepping off pavements to avoid contact, shops designating times for the vulnerable, GAA clubs organising volunteers to do shopping etc.

I've started to wear masks into shops as a means of protecting other people from the possibility of me being a carrier. It's a show of solidarity and an encouragement to others to do the same. Seeing a political event with thousands of unmasked attendees undermines that solidarity.

"We're all in this together" has been a slightly jaded theme of the response to the virus. Having one set of rules for SF/IRA funerals and another for the rest of us also undermines solidarity.

Oh, and on one of the small technicalities here's a quote from the "Department of Health (Northern Ireland) Updated Interim Guidelines for Funeral Directors on managing infection risks when handling deceased":

"63.0 It is recommended that coffin “lifts” should not take place unless pallbearers all reside in the same house. It is unlikely that pallbearers would be able to maintain a 2 metre distance from each other, and such practices should not be permitted"

You can find it at https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/covid-19-guidance-surrounding-death

Mortelaro · 08-07-2020 03:35PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Each area is different. I don't think (subject to anyone showing me otherwise) there was a breach of any law in northern Ireland. If not it makes all discussion on the matter moot.

The regulations are governed by law,specifically for Northern Ireland
So this is far from moot !

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2020/55/contents/made

James Brown · 08-07-2020 03:37PM

markodaly wrote: »

Staged and fake.

As much as Horkan's.

FrancieBrady · 08-07-2020 03:38PM

markodaly wrote: »

Staged and fake.

A funeral is a 'staged' event Mark.

You can have everything from a State one to a simple one. A horse drawn carraige to a tractor to carry you off.

And it is only 'fake' if you don't know and assume something is happening that is not.

I would wager a bet that all there knew what was happening.

rdwight · 08-07-2020 03:38PM

Bowie wrote: »

You haven't lived obviously
You lads are desperate to squeeze anything out of this. Family wanted the funeral they had. That's all you need to know.

An option open only to the families of IRA members apparently.

Happyilylost · 08-07-2020 03:39PM

joeguevara wrote: »

If there are being called to resign I would say at least a law, and a serious one at that, would have to be broken. So can you say was there a law broken?

There was no committal at the graveside.

Notwithstanding that there was no committal, is the 30 maximum law or guidance. Is it a family who are in charge and who is to say that the Sinn Fein members weren't part of the 30.

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/health-protection-coronavirus-restrictions-northern-ireland-regulations-2020

https://www.psni.police.uk/advice_information/COVID-19/

CORONAVIRUS EMERGENCY POWERS

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2020 were introduced by the Northern Ireland Executive on 28th March, 2020.

You can find details of the Regulations at: https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/health-protection-coronavirus-restrictions-northern-ireland-regulations-2020

What does this mean for you?

This means that if a person commits an offence of failing to comply with any such direction or restriction imposed on them without reasonable excuse, officers will consider an appropriate disposal. That may initially be advice and guidance or a Community Resolution Notice (CRN).

However, if required Police will enforce this legislation and issue a penalty notice of £60. The issuance of a penalty notice in the first instance is not in itself a criminal offence – the Police do not want to criminalise people - we simply want to ensure that people follow the regulations. For those who continue to disregard the NI Executive directions, the fine can be doubled each time and summary prosecution can be sought for those who refuse to pay or comply. The £60 fine can fall to £30 if paid within 14 days. If a person has already received a fixed penalty notice, the amount will increase to £120 and double on each further repeat offence.

joeguevara · 08-07-2020 03:43PM

Happyilylost wrote: »

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/health-protection-coronavirus-restrictions-northern-ireland-regulations-2020

https://www.psni.police.uk/advice_information/COVID-19/

CORONAVIRUS EMERGENCY POWERS

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2020 were introduced by the Northern Ireland Executive on 28th March, 2020.

You can find details of the Regulations at: https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/health-protection-coronavirus-restrictions-northern-ireland-regulations-2020

What does this mean for you?

This means that if a person commits an offence of failing to comply with any such direction or restriction imposed on them without reasonable excuse, officers will consider an appropriate disposal. That may initially be advice and guidance or a Community Resolution Notice (CRN).

However, if required Police will enforce this legislation and issue a penalty notice of £60. The issuance of a penalty notice in the first instance is not in itself a criminal offence – the Police do not want to criminalise people - we simply want to ensure that people follow the regulations. For those who continue to disregard the NI Executive directions, the fine can be doubled each time and summary prosecution can be sought for those who refuse to pay or comply. The £60 fine can fall to £30 if paid within 14 days. If a person has already received a fixed penalty notice, the amount will increase to £120 and double on each further repeat offence.

Ok I had a read of that. It says any member can attend a funeral. Nothing about 30 people. So again what law was broken? Its fine if you say you don't think any law was.

FrancieBrady · 08-07-2020 03:47PM

rdwight wrote: »

An option open only to the families of IRA members apparently.

Not true.

As the leaders of SF pointed out, if it had been the week before it would not have happened the way it did.

Happyilylost · 08-07-2020 03:50PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Ok I had a read of that. It says any member can attend a funeral. Nothing about 30 people. So again what law was broken? Its fine if you say you don't think any law was.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0701/1150731-northern-ireland/

Police are investigating potential breaches of coronavirus lockdown rules that restrict outdoor public gatherings to 30 people.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-recovery-plan

Indoor activities involving larger number of individuals where social distancing can be maintained for individuals who do not share a household connection. Outdoor activities involving larger groups of less than 30 people during which it may be difficult to maintain social distancing but where contacts are brief (less than 10 minutes).

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Comments