Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

A graveside oration, when the person in question was to be cremated several miles away. It is all a little bit odd and staged tbh. Right out of the Trump playbook.

It was a fake funeral to fill the SF history books of tomorrow to tell us all how Storey was a great man and Republican and a bank robber to boot.

Absolutely, it was staged. It was the funeral of a major political figure.

Are we gonna engage in some naivety now?

Fake funeral only applies if there were people there who din't know what was happening.
The PSNI clearly knew, the priest clearly knew, those who read the arrangements knew, those who watched as family and friends left for the crematorium knew.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely, it was staged.

Staged and fake.

rdwight

joeguevara wrote: »

Im asking for broken laws not broken spirits. Please try again and does it ever say specifically about family members carrying coffins. Also please reference the date of the ceremony to the law. Please don't use 'looks like' if you don't know the answer.

Is that you Dominic?

Preventing the spread of covid has been driven by people observing the spirit of the law as well as the letter. People stepping off pavements to avoid contact, shops designating times for the vulnerable, GAA clubs organising volunteers to do shopping etc.

I've started to wear masks into shops as a means of protecting other people from the possibility of me being a carrier. It's a show of solidarity and an encouragement to others to do the same. Seeing a political event with thousands of unmasked attendees undermines that solidarity.

"We're all in this together" has been a slightly jaded theme of the response to the virus. Having one set of rules for SF/IRA funerals and another for the rest of us also undermines solidarity.

Oh, and on one of the small technicalities here's a quote from the "Department of Health (Northern Ireland) Updated Interim Guidelines for Funeral Directors on managing infection risks when handling deceased":

"63.0 It is recommended that coffin “lifts” should not take place unless pallbearers all reside in the same house. It is unlikely that pallbearers would be able to maintain a 2 metre distance from each other, and such practices should not be permitted"

You can find it at https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/covid-19-guidance-surrounding-death

Mortelaro

joeguevara wrote: »

Each area is different. I don't think (subject to anyone showing me otherwise) there was a breach of any law in northern Ireland. If not it makes all discussion on the matter moot.

The regulations are governed by law,specifically for Northern Ireland
So this is far from moot !

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2020/55/contents/made

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Staged and fake.

As much as Horkan's.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Staged and fake.

A funeral is a 'staged' event Mark.

You can have everything from a State one to a simple one. A horse drawn carraige to a tractor to carry you off.

And it is only 'fake' if you don't know and assume something is happening that is not.

I would wager a bet that all there knew what was happening.

rdwight

Bowie wrote: »

You haven't lived obviously
You lads are desperate to squeeze anything out of this. Family wanted the funeral they had. That's all you need to know.

An option open only to the families of IRA members apparently.

Happyilylost

joeguevara wrote: »

If there are being called to resign I would say at least a law, and a serious one at that, would have to be broken. So can you say was there a law broken?

There was no committal at the graveside.

Notwithstanding that there was no committal, is the 30 maximum law or guidance. Is it a family who are in charge and who is to say that the Sinn Fein members weren't part of the 30.

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/health-protection-coronavirus-restrictions-northern-ireland-regulations-2020

https://www.psni.police.uk/advice_information/COVID-19/

CORONAVIRUS EMERGENCY POWERS

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2020 were introduced by the Northern Ireland Executive on 28th March, 2020.

You can find details of the Regulations at: https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/health-protection-coronavirus-restrictions-northern-ireland-regulations-2020

What does this mean for you?

This means that if a person commits an offence of failing to comply with any such direction or restriction imposed on them without reasonable excuse, officers will consider an appropriate disposal. That may initially be advice and guidance or a Community Resolution Notice (CRN).

However, if required Police will enforce this legislation and issue a penalty notice of £60. The issuance of a penalty notice in the first instance is not in itself a criminal offence – the Police do not want to criminalise people - we simply want to ensure that people follow the regulations. For those who continue to disregard the NI Executive directions, the fine can be doubled each time and summary prosecution can be sought for those who refuse to pay or comply. The £60 fine can fall to £30 if paid within 14 days. If a person has already received a fixed penalty notice, the amount will increase to £120 and double on each further repeat offence.

joeguevara

Happyilylost wrote: »

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/health-protection-coronavirus-restrictions-northern-ireland-regulations-2020

https://www.psni.police.uk/advice_information/COVID-19/

CORONAVIRUS EMERGENCY POWERS

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2020 were introduced by the Northern Ireland Executive on 28th March, 2020.

You can find details of the Regulations at: https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/health-protection-coronavirus-restrictions-northern-ireland-regulations-2020

What does this mean for you?

This means that if a person commits an offence of failing to comply with any such direction or restriction imposed on them without reasonable excuse, officers will consider an appropriate disposal. That may initially be advice and guidance or a Community Resolution Notice (CRN).

However, if required Police will enforce this legislation and issue a penalty notice of £60. The issuance of a penalty notice in the first instance is not in itself a criminal offence – the Police do not want to criminalise people - we simply want to ensure that people follow the regulations. For those who continue to disregard the NI Executive directions, the fine can be doubled each time and summary prosecution can be sought for those who refuse to pay or comply. The £60 fine can fall to £30 if paid within 14 days. If a person has already received a fixed penalty notice, the amount will increase to £120 and double on each further repeat offence.

Ok I had a read of that. It says any member can attend a funeral. Nothing about 30 people. So again what law was broken? Its fine if you say you don't think any law was.

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

An option open only to the families of IRA members apparently.

Not true.

As the leaders of SF pointed out, if it had been the week before it would not have happened the way it did.

Happyilylost

joeguevara wrote: »

Ok I had a read of that. It says any member can attend a funeral. Nothing about 30 people. So again what law was broken? Its fine if you say you don't think any law was.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0701/1150731-northern-ireland/

Police are investigating potential breaches of coronavirus lockdown rules that restrict outdoor public gatherings to 30 people.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-recovery-plan

Indoor activities involving larger number of individuals where social distancing can be maintained for individuals who do not share a household connection. Outdoor activities involving larger groups of less than 30 people during which it may be difficult to maintain social distancing but where contacts are brief (less than 10 minutes).

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not true.

As the leaders of SF pointed out, if it had been the week before it would not have happened the way it did.

And you believe them.

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

And you believe them.

Yes. Why would I doubt it?

SF cancelled as many events as anyone else and took the pandemic as seriously as anyone else.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

You haven't lived obviously
You lads are desperate to squeeze anything out of this. Family wanted the funeral they had. That's all you need to know.

And so did many many other families want a funeral. Unlike the Sinn Fein family, those other families, thousands of them, didn't get the funeral they wanted for the last few months. Only Sinn Fein got the funeral they wanted.

The arrogance of your response would put Donald Trump to shame.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not true.

As the leaders of SF pointed out, if it had been the week before it would not have happened the way it did.

As has been pointed out to the leaders of Sinn Fein who said that, the revised regulations, while announced previously, did not come into force until later in the day of the Storey display.

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes. Why would I doubt it?

SF cancelled as many events as anyone else and took the pandemic as seriously as anyone else.

Then perhaps they could have at least respected the rules about social distancing at the funeral (eg pallbearers, Michelle's selfie)

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When any party turn out for a funeral of a member and give a graveside oration and guard of honour etc...is that a funeral for 'political purposes' too?


We all know it was partly political, many funerals are used this way. The funeral of a broadcaster will eulogise his career and input...is that to be taken as an ad for the broadcaster?
Jaysus blanch do you have any self awareness at all about the level you are stooping to here?

Yes, I have seen it happen for real funerals, but not in the pandemic, there are examples of other parties in the North - DUP, SDLP - burying their dead without all the fanfare of the Sinn Fein carry-on. And they were real funerals, not the fake funeral carry-on that Sinn Fein engaged in.

joeguevara

Happyilylost wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0701/1150731-northern-ireland/

Police are investigating potential breaches of coronavirus lockdown rules that restrict outdoor public gatherings to 30 people.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-recovery-plan

Indoor activities involving larger number of individuals where social distancing can be maintained for individuals who do not share a household connection. Outdoor activities involving larger groups of less than 30 people during which it may be difficult to maintain social distancing but where contacts are brief (less than 10 minutes).

Again, where is the actual breach of the law. And who determines who is in the 30 people. Again this is fairly simple stuff. Show me the law. Show me the provision. Show me the breach. Its my 5th time of asking.

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

Then perhaps they could have at least respected the rules about social distancing at the funeral (eg pallbearers, Michelle's selfie)

Yes, that is where I was critical of them. Clear breaches of distancing regs.

joeguevara

rdwight wrote: »

Then perhaps they could have at least respected the rules about social distancing at the funeral (eg pallbearers, Michelle's selfie)

I have seen no evidence of any high ranking member of SF not adhering to social distancing. A person who requested a selfie is now what people are calling for the resignation?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

And so did many many other families want a funeral. Unlike the Sinn Fein family, those other families, thousands of them, didn't get the funeral they wanted for the last few months. Only Sinn Fein got the funeral they wanted.

The arrogance of your response would put Donald Trump to shame.

The SDLP buried a member where there were clear breaches. So too did the Gardai and the people of this state.

Not a word of criticism, here, in the Dáil, or the Executive. Rightly so IMO and we know why, because people have compassion and empathy and were prepared to give some latitude to those grieving.

maccored

so now we're bitching about someone getting buried. you couldnt make it up. the shinners are obviously doing something right

blanch152

maccored wrote: »

so now we're bitching about someone getting buried. you couldnt make it up. the shinners are obviously doing something right

He wasn't buried, it was all a fake, that is one of the problems.

rdwight

joeguevara wrote: »

I have seen no evidence of any high ranking member of SF not adhering to social distancing. A person who requested a selfie is now what people are calling for the resignation?

Here's a quote from the "Department of Health (Northern Ireland) Updated Interim Guidelines for Funeral Directors on managing infection risks when handling deceased":

"63.0 It is recommended that coffin “lifts” should not take place unless pallbearers all reside in the same house. It is unlikely that pallbearers would be able to maintain a 2 metre distance from each other, and such practices should not be permitted"

You can find it at https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publica...rounding-death

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

He wasn't buried, it was all a fake, that is one of the problems.

so cremations arent funerals now ... jaysus

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

He wasn't buried, it was all a fake, that is one of the problems.

Only for those who didn't know what was happening blanch.

If you know what a 'magician' is doing it isn't magic. Geddit?

blanch152

joeguevara wrote: »

Again, where is the actual breach of the law. And who determines who is in the 30 people. Again this is fairly simple stuff. Show me the law. Show me the provision. Show me the breach. Its my 5th time of asking.

So government guidelines for Covid-19 are published, people are expected to adhere to them, they aren't put into law, but if Michelle O'Neill, Mary-Lou McDonald or any other politician breaches the guidelines, they have no case to answer, is that your position?

If it is, consider this. There is no law against travelling to Lanzarote, people are advised against it. So, if Leo or Micheal headed off for a week to Lanzarote and topped up their tan in the sun, you would have no issue with that?

Bishop of hope

maccored wrote: »

so cremations arent funerals now ... jaysus

It's a, bit unusual to bring a coffin to a cemetery and then to a crematorium I would have thought, kinda like, the cart before the horse is it not.
But that's no surprise with SF involved is it.

rdwight

maccored wrote: »

so cremations arent funerals now ... jaysus

I know it might be tiresome for you, but maybe read through the last few pages.

Happyilylost

joeguevara wrote: »

Again, where is the actual breach of the law. And who determines who is in the 30 people. Again this is fairly simple stuff. Show me the law. Show me the provision. Show me the breach. Its my 5th time of asking.

Enough spoonfeeding princess. Ask the PSNI why they are investigating. I posted credible sources to show regulations/guidelines are less than 30 at an outdoor public event. And I provided a source to show that if these guidelines are breached the PSNI are in a position to take action. Same powers the PSNI used to issue fines for house parties/BBQ's family gatherings throughout this crisis. The action they decide to take is upon themselves. Wide ranging powers (like those given to An Garda Siochana) were given to the PSNI on the 28th of March. Link provided previously. The law is the PSNI are the law.