Masks

Away With The Fairies · 07-07-2020 12:40PM

Yes: valved

Seanergy wrote: »

Holohan and the HSE can't get beyond coughing and sneezing and dirty hands as modes of transmission. They even scrubbed talking as a mode of transmisison when drawing up covid-19 literature. The WHO still promote talking as a mode of transmission, we do not. Breathing will probably be recognised as a mode of transmsiion before we openly admit to talking as one. More pressure on the much coverted N95 masks and respirators.

Ireland are operating a delayed learning strategy.

International Society for Aerosols in Medicine

They only found out the new scientific evidence on masks back in May, yet it was discussed here back in March!!! How long will it take them to acknowledge aerosol spread, if they bother at all? We might see mandatory masks by September or October or maybe April fools next year.

Allinall · 07-07-2020 12:42PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

They release the figures daily.

That in no way confirms that the virus is not in the community.

As you well know.

weldoninhio · 07-07-2020 12:46PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Allinall wrote: »

That in no way confirms that the virus is not in the community.

As you well know.

People are mixing without any spikes. May Bank hol, June Bank Hol, packed buses for the past 6-8 weeks, thousands marching for BLM, hundreds in pubs this weekend. It's gone.

07-07-2020 12:50PM

They really need to start differentiating betweens ways in which the virus can 'spread' and ways in which it can actually spread in large enough quantities to infect people.

Dubl07 · 07-07-2020 01:07PM

Yes: other

MickeyLeari wrote: »

. I am 100% in favour of mandatory use of masks on public transport. In fact I thought it was mandatory and quite shocked it is not. I have been in favour of relaxing controls but think the price for this is mask use and using the app.

So please lay off the lectures for what was a reasonable question.

I should add that the “only advisory” in my question was a clear signal of my thinking.

I apologise. So many people seem to value rights but not responsibilities and it can be awkward to read nuance online. Mea culpa.

MickeyLeari · 07-07-2020 01:15PM

Yes: surgical

Dubl07 wrote: »

I apologise. So many people seem to value rights but not responsibilities and it can be awkward to read nuance online. Mea culpa.

No worries. I will have to add “Wear a mask” to my signature to provide certainty to my position.

Plus need to wash your cloth mask at 60 degrees.

Jim_Hodge · 07-07-2020 01:21PM

Yes: homemade

weldoninhio wrote: »

Still no sign of legislation making it “mandatory”.

Mandatory, by definition, does not necessitate a law.

Something that is mandatory must be done, or is demanded by law.

Tork · 07-07-2020 01:31PM

Yes: to protect others

weldoninhio wrote: »

People are mixing without any spikes. May Bank hol, June Bank Hol, packed buses for the past 6-8 weeks, thousands marching for BLM, hundreds in pubs this weekend. It's gone.

I'm sure they thought it was gone in Melbourne too.

CalamariFritti · 07-07-2020 01:37PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

A cold has never put anyone into the ICU or on life support. Covid is spread by respiratory droplets and aerosols. Cover your mouth to prevent spread, it's really that easy.

Not good enough.

Elmer Blooker · 07-07-2020 01:47PM

Tork wrote: »

I'm sure they thought it was gone in Melbourne too.

Melbourne population: 5m+, new cases 67 and 2 deaths

07-07-2020 01:54PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Melbourne population: 5m+, new cases 67 and 2 deaths

Context. It looks like it's going to rise rapidly.

Tork · 07-07-2020 01:58PM

Yes: to protect others

Have you not been looking at the news recently?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0707/1151775-world-covid/

More than five million residents of Melbourne will be locked down for six weeks after coronavirus cases surged in Australia's second-biggest city, authorities have announced.

State Premier Daniel Andrews said the lockdown would last at least six weeks, as he warned residents "we can't pretend" the coronavirus crisis is over.

After the south-eastern city detected 191 new cases in 24 hours, Mr Andrews said there were now too many incidents of the virus to trace and track.

"These are unsustainably high numbers," he said. "No-one wanted to be in this position. I know there will be enormous amounts of damage that will be done because of this. It will be very challenging."

etc etc

CalamariFritti · 07-07-2020 02:02PM

Thats total madness. Yes there is a rise but to deduct from those numbers a lockdown of a minimum of 6 weeks is total madness.

Juwwi · 07-07-2020 02:05PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thats total madness. Yes there is a rise but to deduct from those numbers a lockdown of a minimum of 6 weeks is total madness.

So what do you think they should do leave it until there's a few thousand cases all around Australia and then lock the whole country down .

07-07-2020 02:06PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thats total madness. Yes there is a rise but to deduct from those numbers a lockdown of a minimum of 6 weeks is total madness.

There is full uncontrolled spread in the community. Why people think this is different to February or March I've no idea.

CalamariFritti · 07-07-2020 02:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is full uncontrolled spread in the community. Why people think this is different to February or March I've no idea.

Its the 'at least 6 weeks' that seems utterly bizarre. Especially when from the first wave or whatever you wanna call it, it was already debunked that lockdown is the cure. Bizarre and very scary.

07-07-2020 02:12PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Its the 'at least 6 weeks' that seems utterly bizarre. Especially when from the first wave or whatever you wanna call it, it was already debunked that lockdown is the cure. Bizarre and very scary.

How many weeks would you go for?

seamus · 07-07-2020 02:14PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Its the 'at least 6 weeks' that seems utterly bizarre. Especially when from the first wave or whatever you wanna call it, it was already debunked that lockdown is the cure. Bizarre and very scary.

It's been proven that a lockdown is the only effective way to re-establish infection control once it's been lost.

191 cases may not sound like a lot, but it's the population of Ireland crammed into an area half the size of Leinster. There are ten more infections for each one of those.

CalamariFritti · 07-07-2020 02:24PM

seamus wrote: »

It's been proven that a lockdown is the only effective way to re-establish infection control once it's been lost.

191 cases may not sound like a lot, but it's the population of Ireland crammed into an area half the size of Leinster. There are ten more infections for each one of those.

It has ben anything but. In fact even in April/May we have seen that R went below 1 before the actual lockdown. We just didnt have the appetite to trust the data. Lockdown was a panicky overreaction. We were crapping it.

Now whatever about panic etc in April/May but to still ignore this information in July is just bizarre.

Edit: And as a last resort you could in such a case do masks. But lockdown? Seems criminal. I don't think it will go down well with the people.

07-07-2020 02:48PM

seamus wrote: »

It's been proven that a lockdown is the only effective way to re-establish infection control once it's been lost.

191 cases may not sound like a lot, but it's the population of Ireland crammed into an area half the size of Leinster. There are ten more infections for each one of those.

Is that even true anymore? Sure in March when nobody had tested capacity or good contact tracing set up, but surely now we're catching a far higher % of cases...

Boggles · 07-07-2020 03:15PM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

But that is a targeted but not general lock down.

:pac:

Targeted was closing down the tower blocks, shutting down an entire metropolitan area and closing off a state 3 times bigger than Ireland is about as targeted as firing a canon at a nut.

CalamariFritti · 07-07-2020 04:36PM

AdamD wrote: »

Is that even true anymore? Sure in March when nobody had tested capacity or good contact tracing set up, but surely now we're catching a far higher % of cases...

Are you talking about Ireland or Australia?

In Ireland we're testing like mad and catching fk all. What is the positivity rate now? 0.2% Which could easily be down to false positives. In fact from what I read the false positives rate is typically higher than that.

dfx- · 07-07-2020 10:31PM

No: other

Deleted User wrote: »

Context. It looks like it's going to rise rapidly.

The eternal bogeyman, the "wait for the spike in two weeks". If we say it often enough, it will come true and 'be proven'.

07-07-2020 10:42PM

dfx- wrote: »

The eternal bogeyman, the "wait for the spike in two weeks". If we say it often enough, it will come true and 'be proven'.

You talk like this didn't happen just a few months ago.

Australia isn't really doing anything to stop spread in the last while. It's now been active in the community for a couple of weeks and cases are going up rapidly.

YellowBucket · 07-07-2020 10:58PM

I was talking to a friend of mine who's a cancer patient in Dublin and they use the volunteer driver service to get them to and from appointments.

It's a brilliant service, but unfortunately various drivers were not wearing a mask on several occasions.

This person is seriously immune compromised and it just seems really bizarre that a service like this, even if it's voluntary has people not wearing masks being that close to cancer patients.

The person themselves is extremely cautious and wears a mask, but the driver didn't.

I'm a bit disappointed with the overly relaxed attitude being taken to some of this stuff. It's really worrying.

08-07-2020 07:09AM

No: I don't care enough

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How do masks protect the wearer? I'm guessing that droplets land on the outside of the mask and blocking entry into your nose and mouth.

But that doesn't explain how people who hardly left their homes still picked up covid and when they did they said they wore a mask. Unless if the eyes are a route of entry.

As far as I know eyes are an entry point but I am not certain on the full science of that one myself.

However - Masks are mostly about protecting other people from the wearer. But whether they protect the wearer from a sick person depends on - as I understand it - proximity to the sick person.

You see when we expel virus from our systems it is on heavier droplets of moisture that masks can stop. Masks stop these escaping - but they also stop their entry if you are close to the sick person and are wearing a mask yourself.

However given a slightly longer distance the droplets have a chance to partially evaporate and form smaller droplets which are too small for a mask to stop. This time delay is why masks protect people form the wearer much better than they protect the wearer from a non-wearer.

All of this is shown using slow motion camera technology and schlieren imaging in this video here. Probably one of the better mask related videos I have seen so far.

08-07-2020 07:23AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Are you talking about Ireland or Australia?

In Ireland we're testing like mad and catching fk all. What is the positivity rate now? 0.2% Which could easily be down to false positives. In fact from what I read the false positives rate is typically higher than that.

FYI - the false positive rate tell you the potential rate of positive results that are false, not the rate of tests that return a false positive

CalamariFritti · 08-07-2020 11:37AM

Deleted User wrote: »

FYI - the false positive rate tell you the potential rate of positive results that are false, not the rate of tests that return a false positive

In terms of practical use I'm not sure what the difference is.

If you know your test isn't 100% accurate then you have to quantify what the rate of accuracy is. Let's say it is 98% for positive tests. Of course thats never going to be precise. But lets say thats the number they came up with on average.

So if your positivity rate is now 0.02% it is well under that 2% and now it means your positives are actually worthless unless you confirm them with a second test and possibly a third.

ginoginelli · 08-07-2020 12:02PM

Yes: surgical

Extremely disturbing news recently in ny times, irish times, and other news outlets about possible aersol transmission. This has been purported by many scientists since March I believe, but as par course in this pandemic, the WHO are only examining evidence now.

This is a gamechanger. If people have no choice but to be inside there must be no question about mandatory mask wearing indoors now. Everybody needs to get on board with this, and protect each other.

UV lighting, improved ventilation and imposing time limits should also be implemented.

CalamariFritti · 08-07-2020 12:26PM

So a possible is now a definite game changer?

Masks

Comments