How will schools be able to go back in September?

History Queen · 02-07-2020 06:13PM

Hubertj wrote: »

You’re a primary school teacher? You want an extended holiday or more money? Or both? It’s great teachers are all of a sudden public health experts

Why are you so against schools opening in as safe a way as possible for students and staff?

wirelessdude01 · 02-07-2020 06:13PM

Hubertj wrote: »

Clearly over your head.

How so? No one looking for extra pay. We want a safe schook environment for all.

CruelSummer · 02-07-2020 06:21PM

History Queen wrote: »

How you suggest vulnerable students and teachers be protected? Schools cannot be reopened without planning. I feel and hope they will reopen, but for that to happen discussion and problem solving have to happen. All these debates online/in the media/in the Dail are part of the process.

The 'debates' in the media are absolutely not part of the process, they're actually causing employed parents to consider their positions and future employment prospects because as it stands - schools, afterschool clubs and other childminding facilities are being hamstrung by these absolutely ridiculous suggestions. Bear in mind summer camps such as the Cúl Camps, Soccer Camps, Swim camps and others are going ahead without the same song and dance. Parents will notice this and the absolute incompetence of the Department of Education and Health to invest in Resources and procedures NOW for schools should there be a case of Covid 19. Whether it be extra prefabs to support smaller class sizes, PPE, test procedures and training, hot water for all schools.
Vulnerable teachers should have adequate PPE should they choose to wear it, they should also get extra leave in the current climate - this is cheaper than no-one getting a full time education. Home schooling option for vulnerable students also or part time options. There are so many solutions to this if people actually sit down and stop kite flying nonsense to the media.

CruelSummer · 02-07-2020 06:24PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Good to see you have the ability to construct an original thought. Was it Ivan Yates or that idiot Ciara Kelly or perhaps both that told you we were on holidays and/or want more money?

I just want to be able to get back to my classroom in a safe way. Don't think that is too much to ask for from an employer. Do you think it is unreasonable? If you do, why is it?

What about flu, vomiting bug, other viruses. There is no 100% 'safe' option and you well know it. Covid is showing up in Europe from early December or even November, we have all lived to tell the tale. Missing 6 months of Education and then proposing further disruption is unforgivable. This will have serious consequences for our younger generation, and as a teacher, I'm not willing to stand over this.

Aldi and Lidl reported minimal infections out of thousands of staff, other sectors are gone back to work with procedures in place.

Hubertj · 02-07-2020 06:26PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Good to see you have the ability to construct an original thought. Was it Ivan Yates or that idiot Ciara Kelly or perhaps both that told you we were on holidays and/or want more money?

I just want to be able to get back to my classroom in a safe way. Don't think that is too much to ask for from an employer. Do you think it is unreasonable? If you do, why is it?

You go back to work by following public health guidance. I don’t think you should call people idiots. What do you mean safe? You want a guarantee it is safe? You want a guarantee it is safe to go to the shops? To meet your friends? People working in retail have worked all through this. Summer camps are on. Creche’s open. Montessori open. You want special treatment?

History Queen · 02-07-2020 06:32PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

The 'debates' in the media are absolutely not part of the process, they're actually causing employed parents to consider their positions and future employment prospects because as it stands - schools, afterschool clubs and other childminding facilities are being hamstrung by these absolutely ridiculous suggestions. Bear in mind summer camps such as the Cúl Camps, Soccer Camps, Swim camps and others are going ahead without the same song and dance. Parents will notice this and the absolute incompetence of the Department of Education and Health to invest in Resources and procedures NOW for schools should there be a case of Covid 19. Whether it be extra prefabs to support smaller class sizes, PPE, test procedures and training, hot water for all schools.
Vulnerable teachers should have adequate PPE should they choose to wear it, they should also get extra leave in the current climate - this is cheaper than no-one getting a full time education. Home schooling option for vulnerable students also or part time options. There are so many solutions to this if people actually sit down and stop kite flying nonsense to the media.

Sorry I think I phrased that badly. I agree that media debates are causing anxiety. What I meant was parents and teachers voicing their concerns and suggestions is part of the process. It just happens that this is mostly happening in the media. Your suggestions for vulnerable students and teachers are good. I agree there are solutions. But they won't be found and agreed on without debate and discussion. Today for example the 3 unions were in front of Dail Committee outlining their concerns and answering questions on what was and wasn't workable in school settings.

History Queen · 02-07-2020 06:34PM

Ankleclock wrote: »

As safe as possible is moronic. Life is about trade offs, this is why we don't ban cars because people die on the roads every year. The loss of life on the roads is acceptable for the benefit that cars confer to society.

How is it moronic? I'm not expecting perfection. Road safetly laws arethere to make roadtravel as safe as possible. I don't mean eliminate all risk. Reduce risk where possible so schools are as safe as possible (given the circumstances we are in). What is unreasonable about that?

History Queen · 02-07-2020 06:37PM

Hubertj wrote: »

You go back to work by following public health guidance. I don’t think you should call people idiots. What do you mean safe? You want a guarantee it is safe? You want a guarantee it is safe to go to the shops? To meet your friends? People working in retail have worked all through this. Summer camps are on. Creche’s open. Montessori open. You want special treatment?

Yes and ALL of those sectors had safety protocols. That's all we are looking for. Teachers want what every other workplace got. Because of how schools are structured it is difficult to implement what works in other workplaces so we want to discuss alternatives not just abandon public health guidelines.

wirelessdude01 · 02-07-2020 06:41PM

Hubertj wrote: »

You go back to work by following public health guidance. I don’t think you should call people idiots. What do you mean safe? You want a guarantee it is safe? You want a guarantee it is safe to go to the shops? To meet your friends? People working in retail have worked all through this. Summer camps are on. Creche’s open. Montessori open. You want special treatment?

I think all school staff just want some procedures and processes that are actually practical within the realities.that we face during school. Is that too much to ask for?

You could do worse than follow some principals.on twitter to see some of the issues being raised.

Higgins5473 · 02-07-2020 06:46PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I just want to be able to get back to my classroom in a safe way. Don't think that is too much to ask for from an employer. Do you think it is unreasonable? If you do, why is it?

inside this man childs mind...

tom1ie · 02-07-2020 06:49PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Good to see you have the ability to construct an original thought. Was it Ivan Yates or that idiot Ciara Kelly or perhaps both that told you we were on holidays and/or want more money?

I just want to be able to get back to my classroom in a safe way. Don't think that is too much to ask for from an employer. Do you think it is unreasonable? If you do, why is it?

I can understand why teachers are saying this, however to keep the social fabric of this country going, teachers are just going to have to deal with coming into close contact with pupils and each other.
Parents cannot go back to work without teachers going back to work so the economy can’t get back on track without teachers taking one for the team.
Crèche workers are back, doctors and nurses never stopped working.
Why are teachers different? Yes primary teachers (which is what I’m interested in at the moment) have sent out lists of work every week, but it’s a much reduced workload for them the way things stand.

tom1ie · 02-07-2020 06:49PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Good to see you have the ability to construct an original thought. Was it Ivan Yates or that idiot Ciara Kelly or perhaps both that told you we were on holidays and/or want more money?

I just want to be able to get back to my classroom in a safe way. Don't think that is too much to ask for from an employer. Do you think it is unreasonable? If you do, why is it?

I can understand why teachers are saying this, however to keep the social fabric of this country going, teachers are just going to have to deal with coming into close contact with pupils and each other.
Parents cannot go back to work without teachers going back to work so the economy can’t get back on track without teachers taking one for the team.
Crèche workers are back, doctors and nurses never stopped working.
Why are teachers different? Yes primary teachers (which is what I’m interested in at the moment) have sent out lists of work every week, but it’s a much reduced workload for them the way things stand.

History Queen · 02-07-2020 06:50PM

Ankleclock wrote: »

As safe as possible is ironic because then you simply wouldn't send children back to school. In life you have to accept some risk.

Road safety laws do not make road travel as safe as possible. The safest rule would be the ban road travel altogether. Even ignoring that option, you could increase safety by making the maximum speed limit 30 mph.

So in summary you have to accept some risk in life. Children have missed out on enough education already, they need to go back to school in September. I would suggest clear face shields could mitigate the risk.

I think any young teacher in good health who refuses to go back to work in September should be fired.

Well I don't know how best to phrase it then... I certainly don't mean risk free. I know that's impossible. Is "reasonably safe given the circumstances we are in" acceptable to you?

How do you calculate young teacher? What is the cut off age? How do you prove the teacher is in good health? All teachers under a certain age subjected to mandatory medicals?

I'm being facetious with the above questions. Teachersare not refusing to go back anyway. We are however looking for workable protocols like EVERY other workplace.

History Queen · 02-07-2020 06:52PM

tom1ie wrote: »

I can understand why teachers are saying this, however to keep the social fabric of this country going, teachers are just going to have to deal with coming into close contact with pupils and each other.
Parents cannot go back to work without teachers going back to work so the economy can’t get back on track without teachers taking one for the team.
Crèche workers are back, doctors and nurses never stopped working.
Why are teachers different? Yes primary teachers (which is what I’m interested in at the moment) have sent out lists of work every week, but it’s a much reduced workload for them the way things stand.

Our point is we are not different. We want workable safety protocols like all those other employees. It's just the way schools are designed is causing an issue in figuring out how to put that in place.

ax530 · 02-07-2020 07:00PM

Many work places shops, factories, crèche s ect worked with guidelines and public health advice available shortly before reopening. Management figured out how to make it work with their premises staff and work practices. I cannot understand why school management cannot do the same. Why do they need to be hand held given step by step by dept. Different crèches are doing different things (some no shoes ect) presume same can be done for school.
All going well (no changes due to second wave) schools will be one of the last workplaces returning. Can each school not just have management meeting Aug tell all staff & students what process will be. They will have benefited from seeing what works for others in July.
I think all children should go back to school Sept.

tom1ie · 02-07-2020 07:02PM

History Queen wrote: »

Our point is we are not different. We want workable safety protocols like all those other employees. It's just the way schools are designed is causing an issue in figuring out how to put that in place.

Nah that doesn’t work. Construction workers cant say I don’t like the way the site is laid out I’m not working. They’d be sacked in the morning , whereas teachers won’t.
Builders have to risk asses and mitigate those risks by engineering solutions or using ppe as a last resort, but use it they will.
Why can’t teachers use face shields? Again I am asking about early primary here.

tom1ie · 02-07-2020 07:06PM

History Queen wrote: »

Our point is we are not different. We want workable safety protocols like all those other employees. It's just the way schools are designed is causing an issue in figuring out how to put that in place.

If you were no different you would be back at work!
You are fundamentally different as you get paid regardless wether you are in your workplace or the current situation. This is a fact would you not agree?

History Queen · 02-07-2020 07:09PM

ax530 wrote: »

Many work places shops, factories, crèche s ect worked with guidelines and public health advice available shortly before reopening. Management figured out how to make it work with their premises staff and work practices. I cannot understand why school management cannot do the same. Why do they need to be hand held given step by step by dept. Different crèches are doing different things (some no shoes ect) presume same can be done for school.
All going well (no changes due to second wave) schools will be one of the last workplaces returning. Can each school not just have management meeting Aug tell all staff & students what process will be. They will have benefited from seeing what works for others in July.
I think all children should go back to school Sept.

Because the Dept of Education has the ultimate duty of care to the students and staff of the schools. They are where the funding/staffing allocation etc. comes from. School management can sign off on nothing substantially different without Dept say so.

History Queen · 02-07-2020 07:10PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Nah that doesn’t work. Construction workers cant say I don’t like the way the site is laid out I’m not working. They’d be sacked in the morning , whereas teachers won’t.
Builders have to risk asses and mitigate those risks by engineering solutions or using ppe as a last resort, but use it they will.
Why can’t teachers use face shields? Again I am asking about early primary here.

The risk assessment hasn't taken place yet in schools. Thats the issue.

tom1ie · 02-07-2020 07:11PM

History Queen wrote: »

Because the Dept of Education has the ultimate duty of care to the students and staff of the schools. They are where the funding/staffing allocation etc. comes from. School management can sign off on nothing substantially different without Dept say so.

So you are ready to go back tomorrow but the dept of education is stopping you, is that the case?

History Queen · 02-07-2020 07:12PM

tom1ie wrote: »

If you were no different you would be back at work!
You are fundamentally different as you get paid regardless wether you are in your workplace or the current situation. This is a fact would you not agree?

As far as I know every employee working from home was paid same as teachers? If teachers refuse to go to work they won't be paid. What do you think happens on strike days?

tom1ie · 02-07-2020 07:13PM

History Queen wrote: »

The risk assessment hasn't taken place yet in schools. Thats the issue.

Ok, why?

History Queen · 02-07-2020 07:13PM

tom1ie wrote: »

So you are ready to go back tomorrow but the dept of education is stopping you, is that the case?

No I'm ready to go back at the start of the school year in August.

tom1ie · 02-07-2020 07:15PM

History Queen wrote: »

No I'm ready to go back at the start of the school year in August.

Fine, so will you go back?

History Queen · 02-07-2020 07:16PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Ok, why?

Ask the Department of Education. Submissions were made to them by school management and unions. I suppose to be fair, risk assessments are probably better described as ongoing rather than not happening. Union reps were in Dail answering questions today about the risks.

History Queen · 02-07-2020 07:18PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Fine, so will you go back?

Yes. I've consistently said that. I believe solutions will be found.

the corpo · 02-07-2020 07:19PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

P.s. Children are actively mixing currently at playdates, parties and playgrounds

Lots are. Lots aren't. Not a fair example. And outdoor transmission rates are an entirely different ballgame to indoor ones.

tom1ie · 02-07-2020 07:19PM

History Queen wrote: »

As far as I know every employee working from home was paid same as teachers? If teachers refuse to go to work they won't be paid. What do you think happens on strike days?

WFH for most employees gives the same output as when those employees are in the office.
Doesn’t work for teachers as they are not teaching the kids on a daily basis.
Furthermore as the kids are not in school this effects the parents who wfh who have to up their game even more to compensate for the teacher not being in their workplace, at the same time as staying productive via wfh.

tom1ie · 02-07-2020 07:22PM

History Queen wrote: »

Ask the Department of Education. Submissions were made to them by school management and unions. I suppose to be fair, risk assessments are probably better described as ongoing rather than not happening. Union reps were in Dail answering questions today about the risks.

Unions act on behalf of those they represent, therefore the unions represent teachers views.
It’s well know the stumbling block is the unions saying they will not allow any difference to public health policy even though crèche, hospital construction etc have had to risk assess.

PowerToWait · 02-07-2020 07:22PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Parents cannot go back to work without teachers going back to work so the economy can’t get back on track without teachers taking one for the team.

Take one for the team? This is one of the dumbest posts this week.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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