How will schools be able to go back in September?

alentejo · 01-07-2020 11:40PM

If schools dont go back in September, there is going to be a serious social and economic issue in Ireland. Parents cant sustain working and teaching at the same time. Child care issues will be at the forefront of the political agenda. There is also the serious issue about the long term education loss to children.

Having only 50% of children in school will not be a sustainable.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 01-07-2020 11:50PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

We may not have a choice in the matter depending on the BoM and/or principal.

The choice to wear a face mask (unless you're somewhere where its actually mandatory protocol to wear one) is a choice that people can make and have been making all for themselves.

Principal won't tell you not to wear one, they can tell you that you have to wear one depending on the circumstances but they cannot ban the wearing of face masks by teachers.

Higgins5473 · 01-07-2020 11:59PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

The choice to wear a face mask (unless you're somewhere where its actually mandatory protocol to wear one) is a choice that people can make and have been making all for themselves.

Principal won't tell you not to wear one, they can tell you that you have to wear one depending on the circumstances but they cannot ban the wearing of face masks by teachers.

No, they can not. Opinion on facemasks is divided right up to the top of WHO and CDC.

As it stands, a principal and BOM of any school in Ireland are probably at the lowest possible point of direction in terms of teachers wearing masks or any type of PPE as there is there is absolutely no directive on this YET. These type of posts should be reported and deleted, totally misleading and untruthful.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 02-07-2020 12:10AM

Higgins5473 wrote: »

No, they can not. Opinion on facemasks is divided right up to the top of WHO and CDC.

As it stands, a principal and BOM of any school in Ireland are probably at the lowest possible point of direction in terms of teachers wearing masks or any type of PPE as there is there is absolutely no directive on this YET. These type of posts should be reported and deleted, totally misleading and untruthful.

Of course they can, if PPE is made mandatory for teaching staff (other than those exempt) then yes they can be told that they must wear it.

It's already mandatory in hospitals, healthcare settings, hairdressers/barbers/beauticians, public transport, amongst many other workplaces.

If health advice deems that teachers must wear face masks well then that's what will be done.

But it hasn't been made mandatory and based on the guidelines it's unlikely to be mandatory, equally teachers who choose to wear masks won't be banned from doing this either.

So it will be down to individual choice whether a teacher wears a mask or not.

Higgins5473 · 02-07-2020 12:17AM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Of course they can, if PPE is made mandatory for teaching staff (other than those exempt) then yes they can be told that they must wear it.

It's already mandatory in hospitals, healthcare settings, hairdressers/barbers/beauticians, public transport, amongst many other workplaces.

If health advice deems that teachers must wear face masks well then that's what will be done.

But it hasn't been made mandatory and based on the guidelines it's unlikely to be mandatory, equally teachers who choose to wear masks won't be banned from doing this either.

So it will be down to individual choice whether a teacher wears a mask or not.

hang on, the post I quoted stated "they can", now "of course they can, if..." a load of "if's". what nonsense.

there are no certain definite directives or circulars YET, I even put that in capitals to emphasise it. so talking about what principals and BOM's can or cannot do at present is pointless because at present there are more questions than answers.

wirelessdude01 · 02-07-2020 12:18AM

Higgins5473 wrote: »

No, they can not. Opinion on facemasks is divided right up to the top of WHO and CDC.

As it stands, a principal and BOM of any school in Ireland are probably at the lowest possible point of direction in terms of teachers wearing masks or any type of PPE as there is there is absolutely no directive on this YET. These type of posts should be reported and deleted, totally misleading and untruthful.

Report the post so if you feel so strongly about it. Easy to know you aren't a teacher if you think that some principals don't tightly control and rule their schools.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 02-07-2020 12:25AM

Higgins5473 wrote: »

hang on, the post I quoted stated "they can", now "of course they can, if..." a load of "if's". what nonsense.

there are no certain definite directives or circulars YET, I even put that in capitals to emphasise it. so talking about what principals and BOM's can or cannot do at present is pointless because at present there are more questions than answers.

Simply pointing out that masks could be mandatory, yes teachers could be told that they have to wear them (bar exemptions) but that they cannot be told NOT to wear them.

I think a lot of teachers would welcome mandatory PPE but if that directive is not forthcoming then they should make their own personal choice on it and be allowed to do that.

Higgins5473 · 02-07-2020 12:38AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Report the post so if you feel so strongly about it. Easy to know you aren't a teacher if you think that some principals don't tightly control and rule their schools.

I am a qualified primary school teacher since 2001, and have been on BOM and held an AP1 position, I doubt you know what that is, pm me and I will give you a screen grab of my TC registration. I set up an ed tech company providing workshops and support employing 4 staff in 2010 when things were very tough in the country and worked hard to build it. I was about to take on more staff until March. I paid staff until I could, they're gone and the company has entered voluntary strike off. I now have a case taken against me by the landlord of unit we had for breaking the lease.

Go through my post history, I don't mention it here but did speak about it back in March/April when I realised what was about to happen.

I will be returning to subbing in Sept hopefully as I am trying to get back on my feet.

You sound like you really have your finger on the pulse.

Higgins5473 · 02-07-2020 12:44AM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Simply pointing out that masks could be mandatory, yes teachers could be told that they have to wear them (bar exemptions) but that they cannot be told NOT to wear them.

I think a lot of teachers would welcome mandatory PPE but if that directive is not forthcoming then they should make their own personal choice on it and be allowed to do that.

I have no idea what you are talking about or what kind of backtracking you are attempting to do. My point always was and still is, there is no clear directive on masks or PPE in schools so speculation and baseless statements saying what principals and BOM's can order teachers what to do is pointless.

LilyShame · 02-07-2020 08:16AM

Gone beyond a joke at this stage.

Dept of Ed are a disgrace. I get that unions must defend their members but its time to put the green Jersey on in the public education system.

I agree with working parents at this point....working a 9 hour day from MS teams and homeschooling children is very very difficult and not sustainable.

Parents, business owners, workers... At this point you need to lobby any politician within your reach at this point to ensure full time education return. I will stand outside that Doe myself if I have to.

Norma needs to mobilise!!!

LilyShame · 02-07-2020 08:18AM

You need to start lobbying. Totally agree this is nonsense.

alentejo wrote: »

If schools dont go back in September, there is going to be a serious social and economic issue in Ireland. Parents cant sustain working and teaching at the same time. Child care issues will be at the forefront of the political agenda. There is also the serious issue about the long term education loss to children.

Having only 50% of children in school will not be a sustainable.

History Queen · 02-07-2020 08:33AM

LilyShame wrote: »

Gone beyond a joke at this stage.

Dept of Ed are a disgrace. I get that unions must defend their members but its time to put the green Jersey on in the public education system.

I agree with working parents at this point....working a 9 hour day from MS teams and homeschooling children is very very difficult and not sustainable.

Parents, business owners, workers... At this point you need to lobby any politician within your reach at this point to ensure full time education return. I will stand outside that Doe myself if I have to.

Norma needs to mobilise!!!

Teachers are sick of putting the green jersey on and papering over the cracks in our school system. Sick of paying out of our own pockets for essential classroom supplies, for missing our own children's parent teacher meetings as they clash with our school ones, eating in to our own family time to make sure supervised study/homework club/breakfast club runs in our schools. Subsidising students on trips because yet again their parents have sent them to school with no lunch or money to buy it. Buying extra copies/exam papers/folders/stationary for the students who are always sent in without.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all that a workable solution needs to be found for the new school year but I am sick to the back teeth of the notion that teachers should "don the green jersey" as if many of us weren't already doing that for years. We are people and some of us parents too. Of course we want the best for our students. It is an inherent part of why most of us chose this profession.

Sammy2012 · 02-07-2020 08:34AM

I just heard on the news that the NPC are going to talk to the Oireachtas today that parents and teachers want blended learning.

As a parent and a teacher I've no idea where they are getting these facts from because I don't know of anyone who wants this. I want to go back to school full time and I want my kids to go back full time. Altho both will fall into the Junior Infant to 2nd class rules so should be.

History Queen · 02-07-2020 08:52AM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I just heard on the news that the NPC are going to talk to the Oireachtas today that parents and teachers want blended learning.

As a parent and a teacher I've no idea where they are getting these facts from because I don't know of anyone who wants this. I want to go back to school full time and I want my kids to go back full time. Altho both will fall into the Junior Infant to 2nd class rules so should be.

I'm the same. Any colleagues I've spoken to want to go back to school in as close to normal a fashion as possible albeit with extra precautions for safety. Hardly unreasonable.

Sammy2012 · 02-07-2020 08:56AM

History Queen wrote: »

I'm the same. Any colleagues I've spoken to want to go back to school in as close to normal a fashion as possible albeit with extra precautions for safety. Hardly unreasonable.

Extra precautions are necessary so masks or visors should be recommended.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 02-07-2020 09:06AM

History Queen wrote: »

I'm the same. Any colleagues I've spoken to want to go back to school in as close to normal a fashion as possible albeit with extra precautions for safety. Hardly unreasonable.

Nobody wants blended learning, not parents, not teachers, not teachers who are also parents.

I don't know why the NPC would lobby for that or what the motive would be for it.

harr · 02-07-2020 09:10AM

Blended learning definitely won’t work for a lot of people,I for one really struggle with home learning One of my kids has additional needs and the other gets extra support in school and trying to manage home school was a nightmare and mostly ended in rows .. I just don’t have the capability to home school my kids.
Our local school is currently in a panic to get hot water installed before September, that’s the Reality in rural schools , all desks will need to be replaced as currently using desks that sit four kids so they need to be changed .. some of our class rooms are only accessible through other class rooms , our class room used for extra learning is no bigger than a large wardrobe.
All well and good department of education setting down rules but now the lack of investment in schools will really start to show .

History Queen · 02-07-2020 09:10AM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Nobody wants blended learning, not parents, not teachers, not teachers who are also parents.

I don't know why the NPC would lobby for that or what the motive would be for it.

Exactly, where are they getting their information from? Did they survey people?

khalessi · 02-07-2020 09:12AM

History Queen wrote: »

Exactly, where are they getting their information from? Did they survey people?

I think there was a survey put out a few weeks ago maybe APril

Sammy2012 · 02-07-2020 09:15AM

khalessi wrote: »

I think there was a survey put out a few weeks ago maybe APril

They had a 24hour survey last week!

History Queen · 02-07-2020 09:16AM

khalessi wrote: »

I think there was a survey put out a few weeks ago maybe APril

I wonder how the questoons were phrased. I'm very surprised parents or teachers are looking for blended learning as it's not reflective of the wishes of anyone I know or anything I'veread online. Saying that maybe I just have a very narrow viewpoint.

iamwhoiam · 02-07-2020 09:29AM

I reading about “ pods” if the one metre is not workable . I read it in The Independent mind you not on any official site
The children above 2 class could be in pods of 4-6 and they can be closer to each other . Each pod must stay one metre from another pod .
Its two whole months until September so lots could change in the meantime but better to be ready and everything in place than a rush in September

I have no idea where the PC got the notion that parents want blended learning . Not a single parent or indeed teacher I know wants it .

On an aside , the Government opened up all employment etc without a thought in the world given to who would mind the children
In my own family and circle of friends grandparents are now minding children because there is no other choice . In my own estate many grandparents are minding two or three children
Some , not all , were cocooning until they simply had no alternative .
Healthcare workers were also let down badly over childcare and it is an absolute scandal how they were treated

The Do E has got to get their act together to support children in this vital decision now

lulublue22 · 02-07-2020 09:36AM

History Queen wrote: »

I'm the same. Any colleagues I've spoken to want to go back to school in as close to normal a fashion as possible albeit with extra precautions for safety. Hardly unreasonable.

Same here - blended learning seems to be the least favoured option. No idea where they get these “opinions” from. Though from a dep perspective its very handy - when it goes tits up and it will then it will be those lazy ass teachers and the over zealous unions who will bear full responsibility in the public mind. Honestly getting heartily sick of being scapegoated.

Hoping it will be back as close to normal in Sep as possible with added precautions such as face coverings / masks

khalessi · 02-07-2020 09:38AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Same here - blended learning seems to be the least favoured option. No idea where they get these “opinions” from. Though from a dep perspective its very handy - when it goes tits up and it will then it will be those lazy ass teachers and the over zealous unions who will bear full responsibility in the public mind. Honestly getting heartily sick of being scapegoated.

Hoping it will be back as close to normal in Sep as possible with added precautions such as face coverings / masks

Agreed. Blended learning would be too much pressure and the technology is not there to teach while having a zoom group watching.

iamwhoiam · 02-07-2020 09:45AM

For primary schools, it points to two possible approaches.

In a traditional classroom with standard desks, it would mean a distance of one metre between students, and the alternative is to maintain separate 'pods' - a small number of pupils working within groups.

While one pod would maintain a distance of one metre from another pod, there would be no requirement for minimum distance between individual pupils in a pod.

A 'pod' refers to a small group within a class, but it also recommended that classes themselves be regarded as 'bubbles', which stay apart from other classes as much as possible.

This is from the Independent today

khalessi · 02-07-2020 09:55AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

For primary schools, it points to two possible approaches.

In a traditional classroom with standard desks, it would mean a distance of one metre between students, and the alternative is to maintain separate 'pods' - a small number of pupils working within groups.

While one pod would maintain a distance of one metre from another pod, there would be no requirement for minimum distance between individual pupils in a pod.

A 'pod' refers to a small group within a class, but it also recommended that classes themselves be regarded as 'bubbles', which stay apart from other classes as much as possible.

This is from the Independent today

I think the "each class is a bubble" approach is the way we are going but I mentioned that last week on here somewhere. It will be hard to work as already my job has me potentially in 4 bubbles, which I will be happy to do as long as i can wear a mask. I will do that anyway

Sammy2012 · 02-07-2020 10:00AM

khalessi wrote: »

I think the "each class is a bubble" approach is the way we are going but I mentioned that last week on here somewhere. It will be hard to work as already my job has me potentially in 4 bubbles, which I will be happy to do as long as i can wear a mask. I will do that anyway

Do u work in SET? I'm due to move there next year and am not sure how it will work?

khalessi · 02-07-2020 10:04AM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Do u work in SET? I'm due to move there next year and am not sure how it will work?

Yep, there was suggestion to teach at the back of the room, but that could be difficult. I would prefer to use my room and clean area between groups as i have more than one class at every level.

brighterspark · 02-07-2020 10:05AM

As a secondary teacher I will happily wear a visor/mask. Common sense is now needed - our kids will be in close contact with each other all summer long and will not have suffered because of it. They need their education and parents need to work - we have to accept some risk and no parent or teacher wants blended learning - it is a poor substitute.

KaneToad · 02-07-2020 10:05AM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

They had a 24hour survey last week!

So, a non-scientific, non-representative poll. Not the best for setting policy...

NPC & INTO on RTE radio now...

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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