Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings

fr336 · 01-07-2020 12:55AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

What about the HIV crisis? Why was there no lockdown then?

The flu jab is not 100% accurate. Far from it. People die of flu all year, every year. But apparently they're just not tragic enough. The flu spreads easily too. But it's old news. Coronavirus is new, and great for the virtue signallers.

I hope you intend to socially distance and avoid travel for the rest of your life - or do you only care about not infecting others when it's just this one particular virus?

Why do you think "they" have chosen this particular virus to virtue signal at? Why not the examples you give like HIV or seasonal flu? Answers on a postcard

greensheep777 · 01-07-2020 12:57AM

fr336 wrote: »

Why do you think "they" have chosen this particular virus to virtue signal at? Why not the examples you give like HIV or seasonal flu? Answers on a postcard

HIV is too 80s, I'd imagine.

cooperguy · 01-07-2020 12:59AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

What about the HIV crisis? Why was there no lockdown then?

The flu jab is not 100% accurate. Far from it. People die of flu all year, every year. But apparently they're just not tragic enough. The flu spreads easily too. But it's old news. Coronavirus is new, and great for the virtue signallers.

I hope you intend to socially distance and avoid travel for the rest of your life - or do you only care about not infecting others when it's just this one particular virus?

I'm not sure if you're pretending not to get this or genuinely not getting it. HIV was not a respiratory illness. The flu is an understood illness, the risk and spread is understood and the hospitals will (most likely) not be overwhelmed (not to mention the healthcare workers can take a vaccine).

We now have a handle on the disease, prepared our hospitals, implemented social distancing protocols and are opening up again. Surely you can follow the logic.

TaurenDruid · 01-07-2020 01:06AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

HIV is too 80s, I'd imagine.

Why is that, do you think? Maybe because so much was invested in education campaigns, and research, it's no longer the problem it was?

Logic - it's great! You should try some!

Goldengirl · 01-07-2020 01:13AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

HIV is too 80s, I'd imagine.

You are a little behind here , little one .

HIV is a sexually transmitted disease , not a virus you can catch by standing near or talking to someone , or were you too young to remember the education campaign about AIDs ?

greensheep777 · 01-07-2020 01:17AM

cooperguy wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're pretending not to get this or genuinely not getting it. HIV was not a respiratory illness. The flu is an understood illness, the risk and spread is understood and the hospitals will (most likely) not be overwhelmed (not to mention the healthcare workers can take a vaccine).

We now have a handle on the disease, prepared our hospitals, implemented social distancing protocols and are opening up again. Surely you can follow the logic.

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Why is that, do you think? Maybe because so much was invested in education campaigns, and research, it's no longer the problem it was?

Logic - it's great! You should try some!

I'll again ask - where was the lockdown for it? You're aware it was only discovered in the 80s, yes?
It is understood now, decades later, but when it was discovered it was not remotely an understood illness, the risk and spread was NOT understood, and it was a complete death sentence for many years. So I'll again ask, where was the lockdown?

Goldengirl · 01-07-2020 01:17AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Your responding in agreement to a poster who has used Neil Fergusons models in their argument.

You then referred to those who question the viability of long term restricions as "empty vessels".

This is why this thread will roll on.

Neil Ferguson!!!

Yes I referenced his statement to the BBC , whichalong with other scientists agreed they should have locked down sooner to catch the virus before it spread exponentially , and that was all .
All the modelling quotes , I leave to you and others .

greensheep777 · 01-07-2020 01:20AM

Goldengirl wrote: »

You are a little behind here , little one .

HIV is a sexually transmitted disease , not a virus you can catch by standing near or talking to someone , or were you too young to remember the education campaign about AIDs ?

Oh sweetie, whatever you learned, you've clearly forgotten. It can be transmitted through pregnancy, breastfeeding, blood transfusions, and many other ways. But of course, we only know that in hindsight. At the time it was a total unknown, as coronavirus was. So I'll ask the question that nobody was unable to answer - when this disease was first discovered killing people in their thousands - where was the lockdown?

cooperguy · 01-07-2020 01:22AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

I'll again ask - where was the lockdown for it? You're aware it was only discovered in the 80s, yes?
It is understood now, decades later, but when it was discovered it was not remotely an understood illness, the risk and spread was NOT understood, and it was a complete death sentence for many years. So I'll again ask, where was the lockdown?

Did they think it was a respiratory disease? They knew it did not spread like the flu or as fast as COVID. That's why.

greensheep777 · 01-07-2020 01:23AM

cooperguy wrote: »

Did they think it was a respiratory disease? They knew it did not spread like the flu.

I'm asking again - where was the lockdown?
Surely you'd agree it was necessary since we were dealing with a new unknown virus? 2m social distancing would work wonders if there's suspicion it's sexually transmitted!

Arghus · 01-07-2020 01:31AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

Oh sweetie, whatever you learned, you've clearly forgotten. It can be transmitted through pregnancy, breastfeeding, blood transfusions, and many other ways. But of course, we only know that in hindsight. At the time it was a total unknown, as coronavirus was. So I'll ask the question that nobody was unable to answer - when this disease was first discovered killing people in their thousands - where was the lockdown?

HIV didn't suddenly appear in one continent and travel the world within weeks, infecting millions and killing hundreds of thousands within that time period, through simple everyday human contact.

How the two viruses spread and their levels of infectiousness are totally different. Of course the approach to dealing with them is going to be different? I don't know what argument you're really trying to make here - it doesn't seem well thought out.

cooperguy · 01-07-2020 01:35AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

I'm asking again - where was the lockdown?
Surely you'd agree it was necessary since we were dealing with a new unknown virus? 2m social distancing would work wonders if there's suspicion it's sexually transmitted!

You really arent reading anything posted are you. There was no need for a lockdown due to both the method and rate of spread. There was no threat to the stability of the health systems.

greensheep777 · 01-07-2020 01:42AM

Arghus wrote: »

HIV didn't suddenly appear in one continent and travel the world within weeks, infecting millions and killing hundreds of thousands within that time period, through simple everyday human contact.

How the two viruses spread and their levels of infectiousness are totally different. Of course the approach to dealing with them is going to be different? I don't know what argument you're really trying to make here - it doesn't seem well thought out.

cooperguy wrote: »

You really arent reading anything posted are you. There was no need for a lockdown due to both the method and rate of spread. There was no threat to the stability of the health systems.

Let's go for TB then. Transmitted through the air, no lockdown back then. Off we go, folks - why not?

Arghus · 01-07-2020 01:47AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

Let's go for TB then. Transmitted through the air, no lockdown back then. Off we go, folks - why not?

TB is not as contagious, it didn't spread through populations as rapidly.

It's the sheer contagiousness of Covid and its relative amount of danger that makes it unique.

greensheep777 · 01-07-2020 01:52AM

Arghus wrote: »

TB is not as contagious, it didn't spread through populations as rapidly.

It's the sheer contagiousness of Covid and its relative amount of danger that makes it unique.

https://www.cdc.gov/tb/worldtbday/history.htm#:~:text=World%20TB%20Day-,History%20of%20World%20TB%20Day,the%20United%20States%20and%20Europe.

>On March 24, 1882, Dr. Robert Koch announced the discovery of Mycobacterium tuberculosis, the bacteria that causes tuberculosis (TB). During this time, TB killed one out of every seven people living in the United States and Europe.

I'd call that spreading through a population pretty rapidly. My own great-grandfather died of it - a young healthy man in his 30s. But no lockdown.

Arghus · 01-07-2020 02:13AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

https://www.cdc.gov/tb/worldtbday/history.htm#:~:text=World%20TB%20Day-,History%20of%20World%20TB%20Day,the%20United%20States%20and%20Europe.

>On March 24, 1882, Dr. Robert Koch announced the discovery of Mycobacterium tuberculosis, the bacteria that causes tuberculosis (TB). During this time, TB killed one out of every seven people living in the United States and Europe.

I'd call that spreading through a population pretty rapidly. My own great-grandfather died of it - a young healthy man in his 30s. But no lockdown.

Sure TB is very infectious and very dangerous, but it didn't just arrive out of nowhere and wasn't more infectious than the common cold. The health system would have collapsed in Ireland if we hadn't taken drastic action. That's the reality of the situation.

Maybe they should have taken the lockdown approach back in the day to TB, who knows?

MickeyLeari · 01-07-2020 05:00AM

From the Independent today. The headline refers to 5 people out of 1700 who died in Ireland contracted the virus abroad but the most alarming part is below in respect to mental health.

I am confident that the crap over the last few days about foreign travel is not exactly helping things. How many people have been craving that weekend or holiday away in Europe (and we are citizens of the EU) only now to be told it is selfish to travel even in cases where the risk is low.

At the same time the tone of the briefing is very divisive - others, as we have seen here, are using highly inflammatory language in respect to people who do travel as if they are pariahs and killers.

It is not black and white and that is why the experts in Europe are arriving at a sensible and balanced strategy to manage the risk. But we are now becoming isolated in our approach which as we know is taking a very narrow perspective.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/five-people-who-contracted-covid-19-abroad-died-after-they-came-back-to-ireland-39330453.html

Meanwhile, Mental Health Reform, the national coalition on mental health, yesterday presented research that highlighted significant public demand for greater action from the new government and its agencies to respond to the mental health impact of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Dr Phillip Hyland, from the Department of Psychology at Maynooth University, who leads the Irish arm of the project, said: "Our survey has revealed that, at minimum, one-third of people in the population are experiencing serious mental health difficulties during the Covid-19 pandemic.

"Young adults and women more generally are exhibiting worryingly high levels of depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress disorder.

"The mental health response to this public health crisis must take account of the fact that it is the youngest adults in society who are suffering the most with their mental health at this time."

"These findings align with international data that is now emerging and it demands significant attention from public health officials."

greensheep777 · 01-07-2020 06:38AM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

At the same time the tone of the briefing is very divisive - others, as we have seen here, are using highly inflammatory language in respect to people who do travel as if they are pariahs and killers.

Something new to moralise and pontificate about, now that the marriage and abortion referendums are in the past.

MickeyLeari wrote: »

It is not black and white and that is why the experts in Europe are arriving at a sensible and balanced strategy to manage the risk. But we are now becoming isolated in our approach which as we know is taking a very narrow perspective.

Not like Ireland to be way behind everywhere else. I'm glad the abortion referendum did get passed when it did, imagine having a crisis pregnancy during these times and having to explain to the doom brigade about why you have to go away for a couple of days.

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Meanwhile, Mental Health Reform, the national coalition on mental health, yesterday presented research that highlighted significant public demand for greater action from the new government and its agencies to respond to the mental health impact of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Dr Phillip Hyland, from the Department of Psychology at Maynooth University, who leads the Irish arm of the project, said: "Our survey has revealed that, at minimum, one-third of people in the population are experiencing serious mental health difficulties during the Covid-19 pandemic.

"Young adults and women more generally are exhibiting worryingly high levels of depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress disorder.

"The mental health response to this public health crisis must take account of the fact that it is the youngest adults in society who are suffering the most with their mental health at this time."

"These findings align with international data that is now emerging and it demands significant attention from public health officials."

Nah, apparently we only care about one health condition, and one health condition only, and screw everything else.

Quantum Erasure · 01-07-2020 07:15AM

Pontificate, you say?

pjohnson · 01-07-2020 07:47AM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

From the Independent today. The headline refers to 5 people out of 1700 who died in Ireland contracted the virus abroad but the most alarming part is below in respect to mental health.

I am confident that the crap over the last few days about foreign travel is not exactly helping things. How many people have been craving that weekend or holiday away in Europe (and we are citizens of the EU) only now to be told it is selfish to travel even in cases where the risk is low.

At the same time the tone of the briefing is very divisive - others, as we have seen here, are using highly inflammatory language in respect to people who do travel as if they are pariahs and killers.

It is not black and white and that is why the experts in Europe are arriving at a sensible and balanced strategy to manage the risk. But we are now becoming isolated in our approach which as we know is taking a very narrow perspective.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/five-people-who-contracted-covid-19-abroad-died-after-they-came-back-to-ireland-39330453.html

Meanwhile, Mental Health Reform, the national coalition on mental health, yesterday presented research that highlighted significant public demand for greater action from the new government and its agencies to respond to the mental health impact of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Dr Phillip Hyland, from the Department of Psychology at Maynooth University, who leads the Irish arm of the project, said: "Our survey has revealed that, at minimum, one-third of people in the population are experiencing serious mental health difficulties during the Covid-19 pandemic.

"Young adults and women more generally are exhibiting worryingly high levels of depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress disorder.

"The mental health response to this public health crisis must take account of the fact that it is the youngest adults in society who are suffering the most with their mental health at this time."

"These findings align with international data that is now emerging and it demands significant attention from public health officials."

The people in this thread and the rabid open up crowd have no business trying to jump on the mental health bandwagon.

01-07-2020 07:54AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

https://www.cdc.gov/tb/worldtbday/history.htm#:~:text=World%20TB%20Day-,History%20of%20World%20TB%20Day,the%20United%20States%20and%20Europe.

>On March 24, 1882, Dr. Robert Koch announced the discovery of Mycobacterium tuberculosis, the bacteria that causes tuberculosis (TB). During this time, TB killed one out of every seven people living in the United States and Europe.

I'd call that spreading through a population pretty rapidly. My own great-grandfather died of it - a young healthy man in his 30s. But no lockdown.

The bacteria was discovered in 1882. Before people got consumption and either recovered or died. Just because it wasn't known does not mean it didn't exist. The R0 of TB is far lower that of Covid - below 1 from many estimates, and does not have evidence of asymptomatic spread

is_that_so · 01-07-2020 08:04AM

Arghus wrote: »

Sure TB is very infectious and very dangerous, but it didn't just arrive out of nowhere and wasn't more infectious than the common cold. The health system would have collapsed in Ireland if we hadn't taken drastic action. That's the reality of the situation.

Maybe they should have taken the lockdown approach back in the day to TB, who knows?

Back in the day when? It's been around in some form or another for 40,000 years or more. You're applying the sophistication of this tiny age of 20th-21st century medicine to all of recorded human history, for most of which we really didn't live very long.

FintanMcluskey · 01-07-2020 08:32AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

Some metrics from this year:

https://www.worldometers.info/

- 243,009 Seasonal flu deaths this year
- 154,087 Deaths of mothers during birth this year
- 838,045 Deaths caused by HIV/AIDS this year
- 488,991 Deaths caused by malaria this year
- 534,588 Suicides this year
- 672,953 Road traffic accident fatalities this year
- 2,492,137 Deaths caused by smoking this year
- 1,246,855 Deaths caused by alcohol this year

Where are all the lockdowns for these? Why are we still allowed to buy alcohol, buy cigarettes, get pregnant, have sex, drive a car, buy something with which we may kill ourselves?

Oh, of course. Only coronavirus deaths matter. The rest are ignored. It's not that we want to prevent deaths - just deaths from this one specific virus. If you drink, smoke or hang yourself to death with the stress of it all, so what, you're one of many. I wonder what would happen if Dr Hoolahoop was reporting the numbers of cases and deaths for all of the above every day.

Been thinking that alright, only a Covid death is "sad".

They crowd here wont care about those deaths as they dont carry as much weight on social media and they wont have an opportunity to comment "RIP" on the comment section of the journal.

Allegedly being compassionate to end of life patients dying while dismissing other causes of death on an anonymous online forum allows one an air of condension.

Jackman25 · 01-07-2020 08:36AM

pjohnson wrote: »

The people in this thread and the rabid open up crowd have no business trying to jump on the mental health bandwagon.

Nice.

Ginger n Lemon · 01-07-2020 08:39AM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

You think after saving, while paying 1300 rent for a house, screwed in taxes, heating, bills etc from a Govt who don't give a **** I'm going to spend double on a ****e holiday in Kerry or 2 weeks in Portugal you need your head tested

Love how PJ didnt come back to this :rolleyes: I hope he is alright though

MickeyLeari · 01-07-2020 08:40AM

pjohnson wrote: »

The people in this thread and the rabid open up crowd have no business trying to jump on the mental health bandwagon.

The mental health issues are No doubt in respect to people who do feel locked up and those who may see the opening up as a risk.

They are in respect of those people who are fearing the economic fall out as family are losing jobs, the pressure to pay bills, the uncertainty in terms of creche openings and trying to mind kids while at the same time work. They are also in respect for to people who are fearful of the disease and that they may bring it into their families (such as front line workers.

I am mature enough to recognise that this is an issue that affects many people and the ramifications of this are not good for society.

I am also mature enough to realise that the dilly dallying in terms of messaging is helping nobody.

So please tell me again why people who want the restrictions to be eased quicker have no right to express an opinion on mental health?

pjohnson · 01-07-2020 08:40AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Love how PJ didnt come back to this :rolleyes: I hope he is alright though

Why would I? I said he isnt a hypocrite. Dunno why he decided to answer. He hasn't expressed faux concern for the Irish economy before making sure to avoid helping out Irish business.

Ginger n Lemon · 01-07-2020 08:42AM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

You think after saving, while paying 1300 rent for a house, screwed in taxes, heating, bills etc from a Govt who don't give a **** I'm going to spend double on a ****e holiday in Kerry or 2 weeks in Portugal you need your head tested

pjohnson wrote: »

The people in this thread and the rabid open up crowd have no business trying to jump on the mental health bandwagon.

Pj what a morning for you :pac:

In all seriousness, people wanting to open up the county and people wanting others not to suffer with any mental health issues are not mutually exclusive. Youve been told about this in the past.

pjohnson · 01-07-2020 08:43AM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

The mental health issues are No doubt in respect to people who do feel locked up and those who may see the opening up as a risk.

They are in respect of those people who are fearing the economic fall out as family are losing jobs, the pressure to pay bills, the uncertainty in terms of creche openings and trying to mind kids while at the same time work. They are also in respect for to people who are fearful of the disease and that they may bring it into their families (such as front line workers.

I am mature enough to recognise that this is an issue that affects many people and the ramifications of this are not good for society.

I am also mature enough to realise that the dilly dallying in terms of messaging is helping nobody.

So please tell me again why people who want the restrictions to be eased quicker have no right to express an opinion on mental health?

When some of the dribblers here go on about "curtain twitchers" "lockdown larry's" etc. and mock and ridicule anyone following reccomendations. You actually expect anyone to believe that they give a rats arsé about the mental health of the people they spend months ridiculing? People with any empathy dont carry on like the dribblers here.

MickeyLeari · 01-07-2020 08:43AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

Something new to moralise and pontificate about, now that the marriage and abortion referendums are in the past.

Not like Ireland to be way behind everywhere else. I'm glad the abortion referendum did get passed when it did, imagine having a crisis pregnancy during these times and having to explain to the doom brigade about why you have to go away for a couple of days.

Nah, apparently we only care about one health condition, and one health condition only, and screw everything else.

That is an interesting point. I saw the abortion figures yesterday and the first thought I had was thank god we changed our laws on this one, and secondly whether people were still able to avail of those services during this lock down.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings