Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Bonniedog · 30-06-2020 11:45AM

No harm to you but you clearly do not understand what the "veto" is.

It is not some esoteric ritual, it is simply that a united Ireland would require the consent of a majority in 6 counties.

That is in Sunningdale, Hillsborough AND the GFA.

Only difference is that SF now accept the "veto"/consent clause.

Not only that, but they are happy to sit in Stormont running the place on behalf of London.

Now, if you think that is remotely near republicans having achieved their objective then good luck to you.

Seems that current pipe dream is based on winning the sectarian riding stakes at some stage in the future.

Which ironically is much less likely given the shinners' support for abortion!

James Brown · 30-06-2020 11:52AM

Mortelaro wrote: »

He certainly didn't surrender, he got 90% of the Republic's population to amend articles 2 and 3 of its constitution removing the claim to jurisdiction over northern Ireland

Sorry horse, there was a question in there based on a previous comment. It's about a peace being important not scoring points or dismissing an end to violence to try get a little dig in.

James Brown · 30-06-2020 11:57AM

blanch152 wrote: »

I am pointing out the ridiculous nature of Francie's definition of politicians lying. If he is correct, the IRA and Sinn Fein are the biggest liars of the lot.

The IRA should have signed up to peace 40 years before they did eventually cop on.

Well you need edit you comment. It reads as if you are ridiculing the people on both sides who signed up to peace. The IRA signed up when it was right for the IRA I'd imagine.

FrancieBrady · 30-06-2020 12:47PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

No harm to you but you clearly do not understand what the "veto" is.

It is not some esoteric ritual, it is simply that a united Ireland would require the consent of a majority in 6 counties.

That is in Sunningdale, Hillsborough AND the GFA.

Only difference is that SF now accept the "veto"/consent clause.

Not only that, but they are happy to sit in Stormont running the place on behalf of London.

Now, if you think that is remotely near republicans having achieved their objective then good luck to you.

Seems that current pipe dream is based on winning the sectarian riding stakes at some stage in the future.

Which ironically is much less likely given the shinners' support for abortion!

I told you before that that is not the Unionist Veto, that is an agreed principle of consent included in the GFA.
If you won't educate yourself, there isn't much anyone can do. Again here is John Hume (written 9 YEARS before the GFA) discussing it when writing about the Anglo Irish Agreement, the 'Agreement' Unionists are most bitter about and which spelt the end of the Veto they had on any policy relating to the British running of the north.

John Hume wrote:

The fundamental change that has taken place as a result of the Anglo-Irish Agreement is a change that is deeply and fully understood by every Unionist. What it means is that their exclusive hold on power has gone and is not coming back. The power of veto on British policy which they have always had, and which goes to the heart of our problem here, has gone and is not coming back. The loss is uncomfortable for their leaders, for while they held that privileged position they never had to be politicians or exercise the art of politics, which is the art of representing one’s own view while treating others with fairness.

For traditional Unionism in Northern Ireland, other points of view have never actually existed. To this day, as they boast about the proposals which they have placed before the British Government about the future of Northern Ireland – the future of us all – the insult which their behaviour represents doesn’t seem to have occurred to them. Not only have they not presented these proposals to those of us who represent other views – views which must be accommodated if we are to have a future: they haven’t even published them for the information of their own followers. They are still oligarchs. The faithful will line up when the drums beat. The other points of view, to which lip-service is publicly paid, don’t really count.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v11/n03/john-hume/john-hume-on-the-end-of-the-unionist-veto-in-ulster

Your lack of education on this point is your responsibility, not mine.

FrancieBrady · 30-06-2020 01:03PM

Bowie wrote: »

Well you need edit you comment. It reads as if you are ridiculing the people on both sides who signed up to peace. The IRA signed up when it was right for the IRA I'd imagine.

We all know at this stage that partitionists probably preferred the pre conflict/war arrangements in northern Ireland. They seem to have the view that nationalists should have lain down and accepted their lot until the British got around to being democrats.

maccored · 30-06-2020 01:22PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Your lack of education on this point is your responsibility, not mine.

to many reading one liners off the internet thinking that means they understand it. funnily enough they seem to congregate in the same SF threads they create a lot of the time

maccored · 30-06-2020 01:24PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It is í suppose, the #not my Taoiseach should be dead and buried at this stage though don't you think?
It's childish and undemocratic at best.
Taoiseach means chief says Marylou, I'm his chief.
Jesus.

ah now - we both know its basically a declaration of allegiance by a new SF TD to impress the party president. nothing more evil than that

landofthetree · 30-06-2020 01:25PM

The scum breaking the C19 rules as per usual.
https://www.rte.ie/amp/1150536/

maccored · 30-06-2020 01:26PM

landofthetree wrote: »

The scum breaking the C19 rules as per usual.
https://www.rte.ie/amp/1150536/

says more about yourself that post than anything

landofthetree · 30-06-2020 01:28PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It is í suppose, the #not my Taoiseach should be dead and buried at this stage though don't you think?
It's childish and undemocratic at best.
Taoiseach means chief says Marylou, I'm his chief.
Jesus.

Many voters struggle with numeracy issues.

That's why they will keep it up.

1 in 4 people will struggle to understand why the biggest party isn't in power.

25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy. At this level a person may have problems doing simple math calculations. 42% of Irish adults score at or below level 1 on using technology to solve problems and accomplish tasks.

landofthetree · 30-06-2020 01:30PM

maccored wrote: »

says more about yourself that post than anything

A large group breaking the rules.

What else are they but scum?

Tens of thousands of people haven't got to go to funerals because of restrictions. Yet SF just ignore the rules.

JohnnyFlash · 30-06-2020 01:35PM

I think the answer to the opening question is that most of them are up in Belfast today. Thousands of them.

neris · 30-06-2020 01:35PM

landofthetree wrote: »

The scum breaking the C19 rules as per usual.
https://www.rte.ie/amp/1150536/

Just doing what the rest of the UK are doing

maccored · 30-06-2020 01:50PM

landofthetree wrote: »

A large group breaking the rules.

What else are they but scum?

Tens of thousands of people haven't got to go to funerals because of restrictions. Yet SF just ignore the rules.

as I say - says more about yourself. Everyone there in those images are from SF according to you. Says a lot.

FrancieBrady · 30-06-2020 01:50PM

landofthetree wrote: »

The scum breaking the C19 rules as per usual.
https://www.rte.ie/amp/1150536/

It is a break of the rules, no doubt about it and they deserve criticism for it. But 'scum'?

Does that apply to anyone breaking the rules?

Bonniedog · 30-06-2020 01:58PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We all know at this stage that partitionists probably preferred the pre conflict/war arrangements in northern Ireland. They seem to have the view that nationalists should have lain down and accepted their lot until the British got around to being democrats.

SF are partitionists. They accepted partition in 1998 and now they administer it.

The unionist veto is about blocking Irish unity.

The fact that it is now used to refer to the veto both tribes have through blocking certain things in Stormont is nothing to do what the veto was and is about:

A majority in the artificially created north eastern state was allowed veto the democratic decision of the majority of the Irish people, and is still allowed hold what is in effect a double veto:
Firstly, that there is no provision under GFA for a democratic all Ireland vote on unity, and;

Secondly, that a decision within 6 counties requires a majority consent, which is and will remain for the foreseeable future a unionist majority - including a not insignificant pro union support among Catholics, even if they ever do succeed in out breeding "them uns."

Thats what the shinners accepted and administer.

JohnnyFlash · 30-06-2020 02:01PM

A lot of the SF ‘top brass’ in that photo. Some of them mightn’t be household names though....

Bonniedog · 30-06-2020 02:02PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

A lot of the SF ‘top brass’ in that photo. Some of them mightn’t be household names though....

Including the current head of the Stormont milice

FrancieBrady · 30-06-2020 02:03PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

SF are partitionists. They accepted partition in 1998 and now they administer it.

The unionist veto is about blocking Irish unity.

Good lord, even when it is spelt out in black and white you still won't accept you are wrong. The Unionists DO NOT have a veto on a UI if a majority vote for it. READ the GFA.

gormdubhgorm · 30-06-2020 02:14PM

I don't think SF has just vanished. I think SF as being varnished while vanished. I believe SF will now be seen by some as a much better player than they actually are when left out of the first team. Think of recent soccer players Andy Reid and Wes Hoolahan. Going to those Republican funerals and Mary Lou calling the dead man 'a great republican' hardly helps them bring in new voters though - so I don't get that.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0621/1148763-bobby-storey/

Plus the irony is not lost on me that there appears to be no social distancing and Bobby Storey died of a failed lung transplant. So I assume he had respiratory problems?

maccored · 30-06-2020 02:22PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I don't think SF has just vanished. I think SF as being varnished while vanished.

I think it was pointed out why back in this threads infancy that SF hadn't vanished at all

gormdubhgorm · 30-06-2020 02:32PM

maccored wrote: »

I think it was pointed out why back in this threads infancy that SF hadn't vanished at all

In fairness to SF there are some good wheelers and dealers in the party. They play by thier 'own rules' and have thier long term strategy off pat. If it 'aint broke why fix it?' is probably the way they look at it.

blanch152 · 30-06-2020 03:16PM

landofthetree wrote: »

The scum breaking the C19 rules as per usual.
https://www.rte.ie/amp/1150536/

Some people believe that the rules don't apply to them.

costacorta · 30-06-2020 03:20PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Some people believe that the rules don't apply to them.

Mary the moaner would have a field day if it was any other party . Ferris made a long journey up to his old ira comrade in arms ðŸ˜„

gormdubhgorm · 30-06-2020 03:36PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

A lot of the SF ‘top brass’ in that photo. Some of them mightn’t be household names though....

I find the body language interesting in the photo. The way Mary Lou is in submissive mode to Gerry Adams smiling up at him. He on the other hand is looking every bit the commander - arms folded.
Would make a good caption competition. Very clear who is boss, even if you did not know them from Adam(s).

FrancieBrady · 30-06-2020 03:45PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I find the body language interesting in the photo the way Mary Lou is in submissive mode to Gerry Adams smiling up at him. He on the other hand is looking every bit the commander arms folded.
Would make a good caption competition. Very clear who is boss, even if you did not know them from Adam(s).

Don't smaller people generally have to 'look up' to taller people...not much point looking at his chest.

Stretching things a bit there GDG

Bonniedog · 30-06-2020 03:51PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Good lord, even when it is spelt out in black and white you still won't accept you are wrong. The Unionists DO NOT have a veto on a UI if a majority vote for it. READ the GFA.

You are an illiterate clown.

They have a veto on a united Ireland as long as that requires a majority - as it does under the GFA - within the six counties. That was whole point of partition.

That is the fkn veto! It is a veto on Irish unity being decided upon by ALL the people of Ireland.

Do you even have the vaguest knowledge of Irish history that you don't see how this is in total contradiction to the republican view sustained since 1918?

Tokyo · 30-06-2020 03:54PM

Mod: @Bonniedog - take some time off - 48 hours.

gormdubhgorm · 30-06-2020 03:57PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't smaller people generally have to 'look up' to taller people...not much point looking at his chest.

Stretching things a bit there GDG

It is not just that, pay close attention to the body language, and facial expressions.

Gerry is still 'The Mon' it screams.

blanch152 · 30-06-2020 04:01PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not just that, pay close attention to the body language, and facial expressions.

Gerry is still 'The Mon' it screams.

What is interesting about the funeral is that everyone who is everyone in Sinn Fein is there (and is in breach of social distancing) but not a single representative from anywhere else is at the funeral. That tells you all you need to know about how Bobby Storey was regarded outside of the hardmen in the IRA.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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