Masks

ExMachina1000 · 24-06-2020 10:35PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well then don't come out with statements on enforcement that you know aren't practical.

Just employ more people, simple as that is your proposal, again practicalities.

Then when challenged you revert to i dont care or how its enforced. Without enforcment you won't get the desired compliance its quite simple.

If they're going to do it there needs to be an enforcement mechanism, gardai don't have the resources, unions without a doubt will put the foot down if its left to drivers.

I'm not aruging for or against I'm thinking of the practicalities of enforcment which is going to be very difficult without a transport police force which we should have set up years ago but thats another story altogether

Cant expect bus drivers to do it. They don't have any legal authority. They drive the bus.

Maybe the driver could call the Gardai. There is no legislation so Gardai cant do anything. Leo or any other politician cant just decide on a whim. Dont be letting them think they can either. It's not good for rights or democracy.

Get the legislation together or forget about it.

saabsaab · 24-06-2020 10:38PM

Yes: homemade

Legislation can be enacted quickly enough. Have a valid excuse, wear a mask or stay off public transport!

stephenjmcd · 24-06-2020 10:38PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Cant expect bus drivers to do it. They don't have any legal authority. They drive the bus.

Maybe the driver could call the Gardai. There is no legislation so Gardai cant do anything. Leo or any other politician cant just decide on a whim. Dont be letting them think they can either. It's not good for rights or democracy.

Get the legislation together or forget about it.

They could perhaps change the bye laws but that puts the onus onto the transport companies to enforce which brings us back to practicalities

alentejo · 24-06-2020 10:39PM

I guess I will not be going on any public transport soon!

ExMachina1000 · 24-06-2020 10:40PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

stephenjmcd wrote: »

They could perhaps change the bye laws but that puts the onus onto the transport companies to enforce which brings us back to practicalities

How will the Luas driver manage? He sits way up front.

Unenforceable.

jackofalltrades · 24-06-2020 10:40PM

Yes: other

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Get the legislation together or forget about it.

They're planning to do that.
From The Irish Times website.

Mr Ross, in what is likely to be one of his last moves as Minister for Transport at what it is expected to be the Fine Gael-Independent government’s last Cabinet meeting, will recommend that regulations be changed to enforce the new rule.

stephenjmcd · 24-06-2020 10:41PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

They're planning to do that.
From The Irish Times website.

Depends what regulations they refer to, if its bye laws its easy enough to change but the onus then will be on the transport companies to enforce it, thats not going to happen.

Away With The Fairies · 24-06-2020 10:42PM

Yes: valved

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well then don't come out with statements on enforcement that you know aren't practical.

Just employ more people, simple as that is your proposal, again practicalities.

Then when challenged you revert to i dont care or how its enforced. Without enforcment you won't get the desired compliance its quite simple.

If they're going to do it there needs to be an enforcement mechanism, gardai don't have the resources, unions without a doubt will put the foot down if its left to drivers.

I'm not aruging for or against I'm thinking of the practicalities of enforcment which is going to be very difficult without a transport police force which we should have set up years ago but thats another story altogether

There's no easy solution in any of this. I don't think the experts know themselves.

We will never live through another pandemic like this again (I hope), just for once, can people have some cop on. They're like bold school children who needs a good slapping. Though I'm probably not allowed to slap people now.

Seanergy · 24-06-2020 10:43PM

Yes: valved

alentejo wrote: »

I guess I will not be going on any public transport soon!

Unless they install a roof rack

?

ExMachina1000 · 24-06-2020 10:43PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

jackofalltrades wrote: »

They're planning to do that.
From The Irish Times website.

"
Before a Bill can be enacted, it must be passed by both the Dáil and the Seanad. In order to be passed, a Bill must go through several distinct Stages in each House.

A Bill that is initiated by a TD is debated first in the Dáil. If the Dáil passes the Bill, it is then debated in the Seanad. A Bill initiated by a Senator is debated first in the Seanad and then in the Dáil. Only when both Houses have passed a Bill can the President sign it into law"

That's how it must be done to be legal. Let's see.

is_that_so · 24-06-2020 10:44PM

No: other

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

There's no easy solution in any of this. I don't think the experts know themselves.

We will never live through another pandemic like this again (I hope), just for once, can people have some cop on. They're like bold school children who needs a good slapping. Though I'm probably not allowed to slap people now.

You're also not allowed to use "bold" in relation to children either!

Seanergy · 24-06-2020 10:46PM

Yes: valved

Maybe they can they fudge a public decency law? or a health law? to encorporate public spaces not just public transport.

Spanish Eyes · 24-06-2020 10:48PM

There will always be those who object. But the common good should outweigh that. Not a chance for some I see, sadly.

Give it a chance FGS and re assess later, no harm right now is there?

stephenjmcd · 24-06-2020 10:51PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There will always be those who object. But the common good should outweigh that. Not a chance for some I see, sadly.

Give it a chance FGS and re assess later, no harm right now is there?

Let's be honest here were at such low levels of daily case numbers, CSO study today published public compliance is dropping. Its something that should have been looked at back in March, not now.

NotMOL · 24-06-2020 10:52PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Can't be made mandatory without legislation. Who will enforce?
Have the Gardai been granted more powers?
It's not legal without framework and legislation.

Leo can't click his fingers. This isn't Russia or China

What about England, Germany, Czech Republic, Spain, France, Italy etc

They all made masks mandatory

Morrison J · 24-06-2020 10:52PM

At the end of the day even if it isn't policed well, if making mandatory makes even 50% more people wear masks on public transport then it's worth it. Honestly astonished it's taken this long for the government to make this move but very glad they finally have.

Morrison J · 24-06-2020 10:53PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Let's be honest here were at such low levels of daily case numbers, CSO study today published public compliance is dropping. Its something that should have been looked at back in March, not now.

Why not now? Can we not learn from the balls we made of it in March?

stephenjmcd · 24-06-2020 10:54PM

Morrison J wrote: »

Why not now? Can we not learn from the balls we made of it in March?

I'm saying its a measure that should have been looked at ages ago.

Seems to be an Irish thing that we look at things months later when the horse has already bolted.

Charles Babbage · 24-06-2020 10:56PM

No: I don't care enough

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Let's be honest here were at such low levels of daily case numbers, CSO study today published public compliance is dropping. Its something that should have been looked at back in March, not now.

No. Since March people haven't been out and about, now they are.

It is also the only way to have some public transport, with masks it may be reasonable to have 50% occupancy.

Morrison J · 24-06-2020 10:57PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I'm saying its a measure that should have been looked at ages ago.

Seems to be an Irish thing that we look at things months later when the horse has already bolted.

It definitely should have been looked at ages ago but it's too late for that now. We still need to bring in these measures to avoid a second wave. Making masks mandatory is a massive step towards that. Better now than never.

ExMachina1000 · 24-06-2020 11:09PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

NotMOL wrote: »

What about England, Germany, Czech Republic, Spain, France, Italy etc

They all made masks mandatory

All have transport police. We don't. Will they be putting Gardai on buses and luas?

DevilsHaircut · 24-06-2020 11:17PM

Yes: other

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Like i said it was a memo to cabinet to drop it from the start of phase 3 and the order was just extended so the memo gets kicked down the road. Anyway the self isolation is only a recommendation its not even mandatory.

The point is a memo doesn't mean something comes into force. Few hurdles to jump first.

Thats the thing no enforcement you wont see high compliance, yes probably more than now but not to the level some are looking for.

Done deal two hours after I posted the Irish Times article. Disappointed?

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1275890761691811845

ExMachina1000 · 24-06-2020 11:19PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Done deal two hours after I posted the Irish Times article. Disappointed?

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1275890761691811845

Impossible. No bill or legislation brought forward for debate.

Gavin talking out his bum

DevilsHaircut · 24-06-2020 11:21PM

Yes: other

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Clearly been a pretty big shift from NPHET here then with all of this

No. They've been strongly advising masks on public transport/in shops for c. 6 weeks.

The fact that the Irish public have ignored to them is a legal/behavioural matter, not a public health one that they need to involve themselves in.

DevilsHaircut · 24-06-2020 11:23PM

Yes: other

stephenjmcd wrote: »

that's completely different, there were active Garda checkpoints and only a garda can ask you to produce something like that.

You couldn't drive down the road without hitting a checkpoint. Enforcement of rules is going to be an issue here regardless. There isn't Garda manpower to do it

You seem pretty intent on telling people how to break the law.

vafankillar · 24-06-2020 11:24PM

Yes: surgical

does anyone know where's a good place do buy the washing cotton (i think) ones that look stronger? bought a few of the cheap ones from dealz and the like but they're kinda ****

stephenjmcd · 24-06-2020 11:25PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Done deal two hours after I posted the Irish Times article. Disappointed?

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1275890761691811845

Why would I be disappointed?? No need for sarcasm, I was merely pointing out to you that memos don't always equate done deals.

Like i said in my reply to you if it gets a clear run and the legal side of it is sorted then it goes through cabinet without issue.

Enforcement is another thing altogether.

DevilsHaircut · 24-06-2020 11:26PM

Yes: other

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Impossible. No bill or legislation brought forward for debate.

Gavin talking out his bum

I'm guessing that you're another anti-masker on this thread.

I don't recall any parliamentary debate in the UK on the matter.

stephenjmcd · 24-06-2020 11:28PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

You seem pretty intent on telling people how to break the law.

I'm sorry but how is pointing out enforcement being an issue telling people to break the law ?
Its clearly going to be an issue and one that'll need addressing for this step to have benefit.

You can't ignore the fact that enforcement has some very practical basic issues.

No matter how much someone wants mandatory masks and someone else might not theres still things to be worked out regarding it.

If the onus is left on bus drivers to enforce then the unions will put the foot down, the Gardai wouldn't have the resources that's just plainly obvious, checkpoints were run on overtime at a time when all other garda work basically ground to a halt.

ExMachina1000 · 24-06-2020 11:30PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

I'm guessing that you're another anti-masker on this thread.

I don't recall any parliamentary debate in the UK on the matter.

No I'm more of the type who believes that bills and legislation must be debated and enacted legally as per the constitution.
Just like they did in the UK

"The changes will be made under legislation such as the National Rail Conditions of Travel and Public Service Vehicle Regulations for buses. While the government expects the vast majority of people to comply with the changes, operators will be able to refuse travel or issue penalty fines for those who fail to wear a face covering, in a similar way to the rules on having a ticket for travel. British Transport Police will also support the implementation of these changes"

"Anti-masker". Get into bed

Masks

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