How will schools be able to go back in September?

khalessi · 23-06-2020 06:07PM

jrosen wrote: »

I never said hair, i said beauty.

Webinar on for hair and beauty salons
https://www.localenterprise.ie/Westmeath/Training-Events/Online-Bookings/Webinar-Reopening-Hair-Beauty-Businesses-after-COVID19-18th-May-LEO201958.html

http://www.irishbeauty.ie/ABT-offers-directions-to-Members-for-salon-reopening.html

There was advice out there and since most are private enterprise they could come up with their own guidlelines. Schools dont have that independence as everything has to signed by Dept oF Ed.

iamwhoiam · 23-06-2020 06:12PM

khalessi wrote: »

I already have been in school wearing masks. I have stated loads of times I will wear a mask until I am happy not to.

I meant would you be happy to wear a clear face shield instead of a mask

khalessi · 23-06-2020 06:17PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I meant would you be happy to wear a clear face shield instead of a mask

I have some, ordered months ago but in a school setting I dont think they would work as well because the children are much smaller than adults and when they cough germs can come under the end of the maks but I have a couple of other alternatives, so I will try them all out and see.

jrosen · 23-06-2020 06:21PM

khalessi wrote: »

Webinar on for hair and beauty salons
https://www.localenterprise.ie/Westmeath/Training-Events/Online-Bookings/Webinar-Reopening-Hair-Beauty-Businesses-after-COVID19-18th-May-LEO201958.html

http://www.irishbeauty.ie/ABT-offers-directions-to-Members-for-salon-reopening.html

There was advice out there and since most are private enterprise they could come up with their own guidlelines. Schools dont have that independence as everything has to signed by Dept oF Ed.

Your right there was advice out there, like there has been for most businesses and I never said there wasnt. What I said and ill say it again was on friday when the announcement was made salons (beauty) across the country had not been issued with a set of guidelines.

But seeing as they will operate with masks and social distancing gone out the window, we can see how the cases go. If the numbers remain positive then that a good thing

iamwhoiam · 23-06-2020 06:31PM

khalessi wrote: »

I have some, ordered months ago but in a school setting I dont think they would work as well because the children are much smaller than adults and when they cough germs can come under the end of the maks but I have a couple of other alternatives, so I will try them all out and see.

I imagine it would be difficult to wear a mask all day and a shield would be easier to teach in . I hope you find the right one to suit you and the kids

s1ippy · 23-06-2020 06:34PM

Why don't the GAA offer their huge halls and volunteers all around the country to help? They'd easily have capacity and personnel to help.

khalessi · 23-06-2020 06:36PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I imagine it would be difficult to wear a mask all day and a shield would be easier to teach in . I hope you find the right one to suit you and the kids

Im used to it. I used to wear what amounted to a welding helmet when working in the SSD department in the hospital, it was to prevent burns from the steam when sterilising the instruments.

Boggles · 23-06-2020 06:36PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Why do you think they were allowed to open earlier than planned

Because they formulated a detailed plan that adhered to the public health advise issued by NPHET.

Tony has been pretty clear from the start, it's not up to him to tell industry how they go about opening, it's up to the head of the relevant bodies to formulate their plans around the advice.

He has been crystal clear about schools, it's up to the DOE to formulate a plan.

That plan so far is "hope" and "feelings".

If salons presented Tony with a plan full of "hope" and "feelings" they wouldn't be reopening.

Boggles · 23-06-2020 06:38PM

s1ippy wrote: »

Why don't the GAA offer their huge halls and volunteers all around the country to help? They'd easily have capacity and personnel to help.

Unless the volunteers are teachers there wouldn't be much point.

thomasdylan · 23-06-2020 06:49PM

bettyoleary wrote: »

Please dont under valuate yourself. Of course your taking on Drs roles. Are you taking blood. Putting up drips I can go on. You are and you shouldnt be doing it

Taking blood, first dose antibiotics and putting in cannulas isn't just a doctors job. Nurses have been paid to do those jobs as part of the transfer of tasks. Ireland was unusual in that the burden of those jobs used to fall on doctors.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 23-06-2020 06:50PM

Boggles wrote: »

Because they formulated a detailed plan that adhered to the public health advise issued by NPHET.

Tony has been pretty clear from the start, it's not up to him to tell industry how they go about opening, it's up to the head of the relevant bodies to formulate their plans around the advice.

He has been crystal clear about schools, it's up to the DOE to formulate a plan.

That plan so far is "hope" and "feelings".

If salons presented Tony with a plan full of "hope" and "feelings" they wouldn't be reopening.

Do you think maybe the IHF had more of an appetite for it because the livelihood of their members was at stake?

The IHF put phenomenal work into ensuring their members could go back to work.

For example do you think the DOE would have put something more solid forward and put a better effort into plans if their pay pack counted on schools reopening?

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 23-06-2020 06:56PM

s1ippy wrote: »

Why don't the GAA offer their huge halls and volunteers all around the country to help? They'd easily have capacity and personnel to help.

Lots of reasons, insurance, garda vetting, training, volunteers have their own jobs/children to name but a few.

Boggles · 23-06-2020 07:33PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

For example do you think the DOE would have put something more solid forward and put a better effort into plans if their pay pack counted on schools reopening?

More solid? They haven't put anything forward.

The reality is Fine Gael kicked the can down the road, maybe setup a meeting with your local representative and have a good old moan at them from 2 meters.

The important thing going forward is the next government formulate an actual workable plan for more likely the next 2 years at least.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 23-06-2020 07:37PM

Boggles wrote: »

More solid? They haven't put anything forward.

The reality is Fine Gael kicked the can down the road, maybe setup a meeting with your local representative and have a good old moan at them from 2 meters.

The important thing going forward is the next government formulate an actual workable plan for more likely the next 2 years at least.

But if their livelihood counted on it do you think they would have made a more substantial plan like actually made some attempt to make sure schools could open back up?

addaword · 23-06-2020 07:56PM

khalessi wrote: »

We are not the laughing stock of Europe. Europe had to deal with a pandemic too and know what it is like, so we are most deifinitely not the laughing stock of Europe.

Our children are mingling with each other in summer camps and everywhere else, yet our schools will remain closed for five and a half months and will be the last to re-open in Europe.

Our children deserve better from the education system, given its massive budget.

khalessi · 23-06-2020 08:03PM

addaword wrote: »

Our children are mingling with each other in summer camps and everywhere else, yet our schools will remain closed for five and a half months and will be the last to re-open in Europe.

Our children deserve better from the education system, given its massive budget.

Thats in their own time. Schools always follow different rules as we are responsible for more than just your kids. It is a work place. If kids did what they did at home in school there would be chaos hence rules.

Boggles · 23-06-2020 08:15PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

But if their livelihood counted on it do you think they would have made a more substantial plan like actually made some attempt to make sure schools could open back up?

Sure that's politics for you, it's hardly new, orders come from the minister down.

iamwhoiam · 23-06-2020 08:32PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0620/1148657-education/

Once again the DoE lets the most vulnerable children down .

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 23-06-2020 08:32PM

addaword wrote: »

Our children are mingling with each other in summer camps and everywhere else, yet our schools will remain closed for five and a half months and will be the last to re-open in Europe.

Our children deserve better from the education system, given its massive budget.

Scotland planning on reopening schools without social distancing. Teachers will still social distance amongst themselves and there will be face coverings and routine testing of teachers.

Children here have been mixing for weeks now and the government and Dept of education are still wringing their hands.

Despite HSE public health experts saying over a month ago that schools in Ireland are not a high-risk setting for the transmission of coronavirus, and reopening classrooms should be considered as an early measure in lifting restrictions.

Businesses got their acts together quickly because they had to in order to survive, but it seems the DOE does not have any independent thought or capability to do the same.

They want someone else to tell them what to do, there is no pressure on them to do anything because it doesn't impact their bottom line nor is anyone giving them any real motivation to do something about it.

khalessi · 23-06-2020 08:38PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0620/1148657-education/

Once again the DoE lets the most vulnerable children down .

The DoE set this up to fail. Many teachers said this here when we heard the extension of July Provision announced.

There are children not eligible because they are in secondary school or too old despite needing assistance everyday. I know lots of teachers who have signed up to do it but no guidelines issued.

Some schools dont run it but the teachers do home JP and still problems with that due to guidelines and issues of pay relating to last year and confusion re doing JP with more than one child.

iamwhoiam · 23-06-2020 08:44PM

khalessi wrote: »

The DoE set this up to fail. Many teachers said this here when we heard the extension of July Provision announced.

There are children not eligible because they are in secondary school or too old despite needing assistance everyday. I know lots of teachers who have signed up to do it but no guidelines issued.

Some schools dont run it but the teachers do home JP and still problems with that due to guidelines and issues of pay relating to last year and confusion re doing JP with more than one child.

I am genuinely sad to hear that . The kids and their parents who need it most are abandoned again .
I think the DoE should have had a task force set up by end of March to get guidelines in place , schools ready , teachers informed , principles involved and the schools deep cleaned and all hygiene in place ready to go
It’s shameful that they didn’t and shame on the Minister and the DoE top dogs who didn’t bother their ass to get schools ready and get our children back to be educated by trained educators

History Queen · 23-06-2020 09:09PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Scotland planning on reopening schools without social distancing. Teachers will still social distance amongst themselves and there will be face coverings and routine testing of teachers.

Children here have been mixing for weeks now and the government and Dept of education are still wringing their hands.

Despite HSE public health experts saying over a month ago that schools in Ireland are not a high-risk setting for the transmission of coronavirus, and reopening classrooms should be considered as an early measure in lifting restrictions.

Businesses got their acts together quickly because they had to in order to survive, but it seems the DOE does not have any independent thought or capability to do the same.

They want someone else to tell them what to do, there is no pressure on them to do anything because it doesn't impact their bottom line nor is anyone giving them any real motivation to do something about it.

I think Scotland are planning blended learning for much of the year and not sure you're correct on social distancing. They seem to be giving universal guidance but allowing school autonomy to an extent also. This link is Scottosh Gov website but hasn't been updated since the end of May so I could stand to be corrected.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-re-opening-schools-guide/

Dickie10 · 23-06-2020 09:34PM

can someone tell me what is july provision i heard about it a few times now.

History Queen · 23-06-2020 09:51PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

can someone tell me what is july provision i heard about it a few times now.

I'm over simplifying but essentially it is extra tuition offered every year to some students with additional needs. It has been offered to more students this year. Some provision is in schools, some is home based with a tutor.

This link explains this years provision:

https://www.education.ie/en/Parents/Services/summerprovision/summer-education-programme-2020.html

mcsean2163 · 23-06-2020 10:04PM

Murple wrote: »

There's a big difference between covering the curriculum and finishing the book. You said in an earlier post that you were given a third of the curriculum to do in 2 weeks but it was in reality to fill in a third of a workbook in 2 weeks.

With many classes that I have taught, they might have a lot of a workbook to do but we have done the groundwork through a variety of activities. I often left filling in a workbook as a revision type activity or as independent work. Certain pages never got fillled in in the workbook as the material wasn't covered in a productive way but we would have covered the same topic through copy work, a worksheet, a hands on activity or IWB activity.

As for knowing times tables by first class, multiplication hasn't been part of the infant or 1st class curriculum in the last 30-40 years, maybe it was before then.
Spelling tests are still done in many schools but there is definitely a move towards doing away with them as they don't do much for actually improving spelling ability.

Apologies, I meant addition tables not multiplication.

As for the book, you may be right but if that is the case I find it hard to understand why I had to spend a huge amount of time explaining that subject to my child.

I'm hearing here of how hard all the teachers are working during the lockdown, so here's a simple question.

Do you think a blog a week and a total of two zoom calls over lockdown is good engagement from a teacher with a class?

byhookorbycrook · 23-06-2020 10:11PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Apologies, I meant addition tables not multiplication.

As for the book, you may be right but if that is the case I find it hard to understand why I had to spend a huge amount of time explaining that subject to my child.

I'm hearing here of how hard all the teachers are working during the lockdown, so here's a simple question.

Do you think a blog a week and a total of two zoom calls over lockdown is good engagement from a teacher with a class?

Was there an option to submit work completed?

If you are unhappy with the school’s engagement, you can take it up with the DES.

downthemiddle · 23-06-2020 10:21PM

rob316 wrote: »

I always said it no other country will have as much trouble re-opening the schools as us, due to the teachers unions. They will dig hard to make it as difficult as possible and go as far as looking for hazard pay for their members. Disgusting but unsurprising.

Fair play Rob. I'm sure you will be able to supply some evidence to back up what you always say. You seem to be certain so it should not be too difficult to show us where the teachers unions have looked for hazard pay. Clearly you would not be reckless enough to say things you cannot substantiate. That would make you a laughing stock.

pwurple · 23-06-2020 10:24PM

How does someone go about taking it up with the DES? And what would the outcome even be? Hi, here's the last few months back? It's too many cases to even begin to investigate, and even if they did, would have to prioritise special needs for example.

We were not permitted to have the books at home (the school had them all destroyed. ). One teacher disappeared completely, never heard from her after march lockdown began (3rd class). The principal said she couldn't force her to engage as her place of work was closed. The other teacher was super. Daily class calls, gave them projects to be working on.

From family members experience in other countries, the segregated classes are awful. The children kept in those 2m apart zones are crying every night, miserable and confused. It's unnatural and I hope they don't attempt it here.

There's so little of this virus left it should hopefully be a non event in September.

byhookorbycrook · 23-06-2020 10:35PM

pwurple wrote: »

How does someone go about taking it up with the DES? And what would the outcome even be? Hi, here's the last few months back? It's too many cases to even begin to investigate, and even if they did, would have to prioritise special needs for example.

We were not permitted to have the books at home (the school had them all destroyed. ). One teacher disappeared completely, never heard from her after march lockdown began (3rd class). The principal said she couldn't force her to engage as her place of work was closed. The other teacher was super. Daily class calls, gave them projects to be working on.

From family members experience in other countries, the segregated classes are awful. The children kept in those 2m apart zones are crying every night, miserable and confused. It's unnatural and I hope they don't attempt it here.

There's so little of this virus left it should hopefully be a non event in September.

The DES issued guideline 10 weeks into lockdown and there is a complaints procedure there .
Most surprising that any principal would accept such a scenario, it wouldn’t happen in any school I know .
Unfortunately, schools will be very much changed in the new school year, even if the 2m rule is ignored . No playing with children from other classes , no whole school assemblies, no swimming or inter school events, no parents in the school building or school yard are all most likely to be among the new procedures .

And what about children with additional needs or underlying health issues? Imagine all the strange things they will have to get used to.

downthemiddle · 23-06-2020 10:36PM

jrosen wrote: »

Those who dont feel safe I would assume dont want to return to work

That is a fairly large assumption. Teachers can have concerns about their safety and still want to work.
There are people with CF, transplant recipients and other underlying conditions working in schools. It is reasonable that they would have concerns about their safety that need to be addressed. It is in no way fair to suggest they don't want to work.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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