Why is Ireland lagging behind the world in cannabis legalisation / decriminalisation?

Arrival · 22-06-2020 2:32pm

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i suffer with depression and anxiety, and not a hope in hell would i consider consuming illegal drugs or would i advise it to treat such issues, yes pharmaceutical drugs can be harmful, but there is a process in place to limit its harm

I'd bet €100 psilocybin/shrooms would help you a lot, it definitely helped me and I tried it after seeing so many positive accounts of it working for other people. If you read into it a bit just for your own curiosity you might learn a bit. Obviously you don't have to do them if you don't feel comfortable, but it's still a good idea to see how it's helped others so you at least can make an informed decision for yourself. Just because they're illegal doesn't mean they're immoral to consume. You don't do a dose to get really high or off your head -- you shouldn't do that even if trying them recreationally for the first time anyway -- but just a half dose so you still feel pretty much sober, you don't get any visuals you just feel happy and get really introspective so you can think about ways to improve yourself and your situation. It is very safe and not harmful to do it in this manner

maccored · 22-06-2020 2:33pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

or keep them out of jail and offer them health based services that will help them with their addiction problems and any other complicated disorders that they may have, jail is bloody expensive, doesnt really solve many complex social issues, in fact exasperates many

what addition problems? your makey up ones that arent anything like actual addiction?

As I say - what happens your family/friends if they cant get any smoke? Do they get sick and almost die, or throw up or act like junkies do when they have nothing?

If you smoke cigarettes could you give them up as easy as cannabis? No, you couldnt. Its quite easy for anyone to stop smoking weed - just dont let them get any. there will be no health issues or come down or illness etc after

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 2:34pm

Decriminalisation only

Arrival wrote: »

I'd bet €100 psilocybin/shrooms would help you a lot, it definitely helped me and I tried it after seeing so many positive accounts of it working for other people. If you read into it a bit just for your own curiosity you might learn a bit. Obviously you don't have to do them if you don't feel comfortable, but it's still a good idea to see how it's helped others so you at least can make an informed decision for yourself. Just because they're illegal doesn't mean they're immoral to consume. You don't do a dose to get really high or off your head -- you shouldn't do that even if trying them recreationally for the first time anyway -- but just a half dose so you still feel pretty much sober, you don't get any visuals you just feel happy and get really introspective so you can think about ways to improve yourself and your situation. It is very safe and not harmful to do it in this manner

ah your grand thanks, i ll stick with regular exercise, therapy and anti-depressants for now, thanks though

maccored · 22-06-2020 2:35pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ah your grand thanks, i ll stick with regular exercise, therapy and anti-depressants for now, thanks though

i say good on you. Not everyone should use cannabis. It might not be for some but that doesnt mean you should dictate it shouldnt be for anyone

Arrival · 22-06-2020 2:36pm

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ah your grand thanks, i ll stick with regular exercise, therapy and anti-depressants for now, thanks though

With as closed and wilfully ignorant a mind as you're displaying here, I think you'll likely continue struggling in the long-term. Best of luck

Chris_Heilong · 22-06-2020 2:38pm

It stinks and if we could get rid of cigarettes too that would be great.

kingtiger · 22-06-2020 2:39pm

Decriminalisation only

maccored wrote: »

its because of that ignorance that people are getting locked up for having a few grams of smoke, when more serious criminals could be spending longer in the slammer

I completely agree, I tried to have an informed conversation with the poster

but they just wont inform themselves beyond the misinformation that governments have been spewing for the last 90 years

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It stinks and if we could get rid of cigarettes too that would be great.

you don't have to smoke it or use tobacco, my mother uses a Vape pen and there is no smell from it

Hoboo · 22-06-2020 2:44pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i believe im reasonably well informed, i certainly have my own opinions on the matter

You can believe what you like, you seem to be a sponge for misinformation without further research. Opinion does not equal well informed. From reading your posts you haven't an iota, either through experience using drugs or working with drug users. Not a clue.

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 2:51pm

Decriminalisation only

maccored wrote: »

what addition problems? your makey up ones that arent anything like actual addiction?

As I say - what happens your family/friends if they cant get any smoke? Do they get sick and almost die, or throw up or act like junkies do when they have nothing?

If you smoke cigarettes could you give them up as easy as cannabis? No, you couldnt. Its quite easy for anyone to stop smoking weed - just dont let them get any. there will be no health issues or come down or illness etc after

its common for those with addiction problems to have underlining psychological issues, this is called the 'cause and effect' in the world of psychology, the cause is the underlining disorder(s), common for them not to be diagnosed, therefore not being treated, the effect is the addiction. for example i suspect my family members that have a weed addiction are more then likely autistic and/or possibly have undiagnosed personality disorders, clusters a and/or c possibly.

id imagine a significant rise in anxiety levels, as their substance of choice is ultimately being used to try control it. elevated levels of anxiety is a common bi-product of many complex disorders including my own, autism.

again, i have family members highly addicted to weed, theyve tried giving it up, but cant, its causing a lot of complex and frankly messy issues for them, including long term unemployment and relationship failures, further complex depression and anxiety issues etc

maccored wrote: »

i say good on you. Not everyone should use cannabis. It might not be for some but that doesnt mean you should dictate it shouldnt be for anyone

im not dictating at all, if people wanna do drugs, go for it, but please be aware of the dangers, and most importantly, enjoy it.

Arrival wrote: »

With as closed and wilfully ignorant a mind as you're displaying here, I think you'll likely continue struggling in the long-term. Best of luck

thanks, always nice to get words of wisdom and support from my fellow boards members!

kaahooters · 22-06-2020 2:59pm

lads, your agrument here is flawed, youy all focusing on "health benifits" , "social benifits" ect.

focus on the real reason to leaglise it.

tax.

every state in the us that has "leaglised" and taxed the stuff has made a fortune in tax from it, get on to your local TDs with all the enegery and enthusisim you can muster and send out that 1 letter about it in 3 months, then go back to sitting on the couch collecting the dole.

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 3:01pm

Decriminalisation only

kaahooters wrote: »

lads, your agrument here is flawed, youy all focusing on "health benifits" , "social benifits" ect.

focus on the real reason to leaglise it.

tax.

every state in the us that has "leaglised" and taxed the stuff has made a fortune in tax from it, get on to your local TDs with all the enegery and enthusisim you can muster and send out that 1 letter about it in 3 months, then go back to sitting on the couch collecting the dole.

its all of the above really, its tax, overall health and probably just an overall better approach to the problem, but would be also highly problematic itself

ladystardust · 22-06-2020 5:05pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i suffer with depression and anxiety, and not a hope in hell would i consider consuming illegal drugs or would i advise it to treat such issues, yes pharmaceutical drugs can be harmful, but there is a process in place to limit its harm

I an in no way advocating that you should. My only point being that these drugs have been proven to have positive effects in certain illnesses and if tested and regulated could have been used officially in treatment scenarios. They are not inherently without use

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 5:06pm

Decriminalisation only

ladystardust wrote: »

I an in no way advocating that you should. My only point being that these drugs have been proven to have positive effects in certain illnesses and if tested and regulated could have been used officially in treatment scenarios. They are not inherently without use

ive no problem with people using illegal drugs

chrissb8 · 22-06-2020 5:37pm

Decriminalisation only

kowloonkev wrote: »

But it's still the logical thinking, rather than legalizing new harmful substances just because other harmful substances are already legal.

Childish whataboutism is no better.

In that case, will we ban people with a BMI that's veering towards a heart attack from picking up a multi pack of crisps?

What is harmful and what is not depends entirely on the person within reason.

Stateofyou · 22-06-2020 7:18pm

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive no problem with people using illegal drugs

Wait, what?

So why not legalise to regulate it. US states that do this have it down to a fine art, so you get the strain, strength, type of consumption etc to match your needs and it's all laboratory tested and safe. It also keeps people out of trouble with the law. And it taxes the sales which benefit the communities.

If you've no problem with people choosing to do something that's now illegal, why would you have a problem with it being legal then?

Someone mentioned earlier (not sure if it was you or not) about self-medicating with drugs. People do this all the time with alcohol but it's just normalised. It's as common to joke "I need a drink" after something particularly tough or stressful and it's used as a coping mechanism all the time. Many like their glass of wine or can at the end of the day or a few at the weekend to unwind - sure yoga could also do the trick but we let people choose to drink or not. Why should weed be any different.

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 7:26pm

Decriminalisation only

Stateofyou wrote: »

Wait, what?

So why not legalise to regulate it. US states that do this have it down to a fine art, so you get the strain, strength, type of consumption etc to match your needs and it's all laboratory tested and safe. It also keeps people out of trouble with the law. And it taxes the sales which benefit the communities.

If you've no problem with people choosing to do something that's now illegal, why would you have a problem with it being legal then?

Someone mentioned earlier (not sure if it was you or not) about self-medicating with drugs. People do this all the time with alcohol but it's just normalised. It's as common to joke "I need a drink" after something particularly tough or stressful and it's used as a coping mechanism all the time. Many like their glass of wine or can at the end of the day or a few at the weekend to unwind - sure yoga could also do the trick but we let people choose to drink or not. Why should weed be any different.

completely agree

Tomaldo · 22-06-2020 8:36pm

Decriminalisation only

TuringBot47 wrote: »

And how many doped out potheads are a positive influence on society?
Does it help them to work and contribute to society, or does it just mean they can be lazy nobodies drugged out on their sofa?

Of course it's a gateway drug.
They get their weed from drug dealers, you don't think they try upselling?

I'd a brother-in-law... never harmed a soul, but loved his weed.
Out of employment more than he was in it.

Got a call he was found dead on his sofa.
I still remember the roars of his mother as his body was brought into their sitting room before the funeral.

These days, alcohol would be considered a drug and banned. But too ingrained in society.

Decriminalising drugs only helps the useless losers that use them, certainly does absolutely no good for the decent people who contribute to society.

The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Steve Jobs and Richard Branson took it, were they not a positive influence on society

Gooey Looey · 22-06-2020 8:45pm

Decriminalisation only

Tomaldo wrote: »

The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Steve Jobs and Richard Branson took it, were they not a positive influence on society

Some of the world's top athletes partake regularly, Michael Phelps, Usain bolt, Nate diaz. Lazy layabout stoners!

22-06-2020 9:46pm

Decriminalisation only

snotboogie wrote: »

If it was legal it would not be imported, it would be grown locally. You'd be cutting out 90% of the supply chain costs and the cost of seizures. Unless there was incredible taxes put on it would most likely be cheaper when legal.

Irish workers costing far far more than foreign labour. Ireland is not a cheap country

22-06-2020 9:49pm

Decriminalisation only

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Banning alcohol has been tried before. It was a disaster.
The logical thing would be making public policy based on realism rather than childish absolutism.

No, it was never tried here

kowloonkev · 23-06-2020 3:58am

chrissb8 wrote: »

In that case, will we ban people with a BMI that's veering towards a heart attack from picking up a multi pack of crisps?

What is harmful and what is not depends entirely on the person within reason.

Filling your lungs with smoke is harmful to everyone.

I'm just saying that one can't use other legalized intoxicating substances as a reason to introduce another. Fair enough you can use a medical benefit as a reason, and that would win a lot more support than comparing it with alcohol.

I don't drink, smoke or do any illegal drugs btw so i don't have a bias of one over the other.

I just think a combination of having such a kind welfare system plus adding something like cannabis for all would be a disaster, and would add another trap to avoid for people growing up and coming out of underpriveleged areas.

boreder · 23-06-2020 4:15am

I live in San Jose, it was legalized here in 2016 and despite what the opposition to the legalization were saying, everyone isn't walking around stoned out of their minds all day.

I have noticed precisely zero difference. For some reason, people who oppose legalizing it think that just because anyone can walk in and buy, everyone will just run to the nearest dispensary and proceed to get wasted. I'm not a fan, so I just don't buy it. People who like it, do, and generally from my experience, they will enjoy it in their own time at home. Better the state / responsible business make money from it than dodgy dealers / gangs.

kowloonkev · 23-06-2020 5:48am

boreder wrote: »

I live in San Jose, it was legalized here in 2016 and despite what the opposition to the legalization were saying, everyone isn't walking around stoned out of their minds all day.

What is the welfare situation like there? Do people generally have to earn money to buy weed or is the government paying for it as would happen in Ireland?

Gooey Looey · 23-06-2020 6:00am

Decriminalisation only

kowloonkev wrote: »

Filling your lungs with smoke is harmful to everyone.

There are plenty of ways to consume it, don't need to smoke it. vape, oxidize, edibles, oils, lotions, sprays, drinks, patches, chewing gum, soda, syrup to name a few

kowloonkev · 23-06-2020 6:07am

Gooey Looey wrote: »

There are plenty of ways to consume it, don't need to smoke it. vape, oxidize, edibles, oils, lotions, sprays, drinks, patches, chewing gum to name a few

Perhaps it could be made legal in certain forms then for medicinal use with a prescription. That sounds reasonable to me.

Gooey Looey · 23-06-2020 6:13am

Decriminalisation only

kowloonkev wrote: »

Perhaps it could be made legal in certain forms then for medicinal use with a prescription. That sounds reasonable to me.

Yes that would be a good start, but I'd also make it legal to grow a plant or 2 in your own home to consume in your own home!

Quantum Erasure · 23-06-2020 6:19am

Arrival wrote: »

With as closed and wilfully ignorant a mind as you're displaying here, I think you'll likely continue struggling in the long-term. Best of luck

Chill man, you're bringing bad vibes...

Potential-Monke · 23-06-2020 7:16am

Decriminalisation only

Still haven't saved that post I make every time these threads come around.

Ex-Garda. Have arrested hundreds of people over 9 years. 90% were either drunk or did something while drinking. I have never arrested someone for smoking and doing something to get my attention. Never. "Stoners" don't get in trouble, but they do if you cling to the idea that everyone who smokes weed is a junkie waster, which most of the anti-side seem to believe. The vast majority of people who consume cannabis have jobs, they contribute to society, they have friends and are "successful" in life (I used "" because success is a personal idea). You never hear about these people because it doesn't make good news. What does make good news is someone caught with the devils lettuce, the bad person that they are.

It's absolute madness that having the flower of a plant on you can put such ramifications on your record, but drinking litres of poison is nearly expected. I believed it at the time, and I still believe it to this day, weed is not even 1% as dangerous as alcohol. There has been no single death attributed to cannabis consumption in the world. There are 2 cases, one US and one UK where they said cannabis was at fault, but medical professionals around the world all agree that the decision was arrived at as there were no other reasons found, so the doctors went 'ah shur, must have been the cannabis so". Correlation does not equal causation and both cases are highly disputed. I don't need to get the figures on alcohol related deaths, it's common knowledge that it kills thousands upon thousands.

Re: criminal gangs. Yeah, they bring in a fair amount of it, but a lot less than they used to, because of the internet. You can literally get the proper clean product delivered to you directly from legal growers, or people who get it from legal growers. Even if legal weed cost the same as the illegal stuff (which is just stupid, on average it's 50% cheaper), I would still get the legal because I would like to know the strain, THC/CBD content, possible effects and what issues it may help with. There's a strain for everything, from creativity, to increased focus, to increased energy, to the couch varieties. The problem we're seeing with it causing psychosis is mainly due to the fact that because it's illegal, you have no idea what you're taking. And if someone wants to take something, they'll take it, whether it's legal or not. Making it legal would reduce that number (because there will always be those who either abuse or should know better, same as drink).

I also love the comments in this, and other similar threads, about how they all know someone who smoked weed, and then they became depressed and smoked more weed, and took other drugs and then died. Wasn't the other concoctions of chemicals (coke, MDMA, etc), it's was definitely the weed that did it, even thought again it's never been attributed directly to any death. But let's not let science tell us what to think.

Anyway, the world is changing. I think now would be the perfect time to legalise it here in Ireland. Would create a brand new micro-economy, which would quickly become a bigger one. It would create jobs in the industries of growing, harvesting, curing, packaging, transport, retail, entertainment. The non-THC plant, hemp, can be used in so many other industries, including rope, textiles, clothing, shoes, food, paper, bioplastics, insulation, construction (hempcrete) and biofuel.

As Wanderer proved, people don't want to inform themselves. They want other people to find the positives so they can completely ignore them and continue to believe it's the devils lettuce. Unfortunately, even though the masses of boards think it should be fully legalised (just under 70% on the above poll at time of typing), there are still too many wanderers out there clinging to outdated and ill informed ideals and "facts" to look beyond their own opinion, regardless of the amount of evidence given to them.

Also, some evidence, and it's in video format on YouTube so no excuse to not watch them:

Charlottes Web - a strain grown to help a child overcome Dravet Syndrome. It's a short version for your short attention spans, but the full hour long version is also available. Legal medications nearly killed her.
Helping people with Parkinsons - just one example, many more available
A palliative care doctor giving a TED talk on why it should be legal

And on and on.

ladystardust · 23-06-2020 7:42am

Thank you! That was a very clear and concise post. What a mic drop. *unfollows thread and can die happy*

rapul · 23-06-2020 9:10am

Decriminalisation only

If only (Ming) Luke Flanagan and other tds that are pro cannabis could talk like you Monke, sadly this country is backwards, religion, politics and just as has been said a few times people stuck in old ways with out dated opinions on a plant that is very safe under regulations

Drumpot · 23-06-2020 9:17am

Decriminalisation only

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Still haven't saved that post I make every time these threads come around.

Ex-Garda. Have arrested hundreds of people over 9 years. 90% were either drunk or did something while drinking. I have never arrested someone for smoking and doing something to get my attention. Never. "Stoners" don't get in trouble, but they do if you cling to the idea that everyone who smokes weed is a junkie waster, which most of the anti-side seem to believe. The vast majority of people who consume cannabis have jobs, they contribute to society, they have friends and are "successful" in life (I used "" because success is a personal idea). You never hear about these people because it doesn't make good news. What does make good news is someone caught with the devils lettuce, the bad person that they are.

It's absolute madness that having the flower of a plant on you can put such ramifications on your record, but drinking litres of poison is nearly expected. I believed it at the time, and I still believe it to this day, weed is not even 1% as dangerous as alcohol. There has been no single death attributed to cannabis consumption in the world. There are 2 cases, one US and one UK where they said cannabis was at fault, but medical professionals around the world all agree that the decision was arrived at as there were no other reasons found, so the doctors went 'ah shur, must have been the cannabis so". Correlation does not equal causation and both cases are highly disputed. I don't need to get the figures on alcohol related deaths, it's common knowledge that it kills thousands upon thousands.

Re: criminal gangs. Yeah, they bring in a fair amount of it, but a lot less than they used to, because of the internet. You can literally get the proper clean product delivered to you directly from legal growers, or people who get it from legal growers. Even if legal weed cost the same as the illegal stuff (which is just stupid, on average it's 50% cheaper), I would still get the legal because I would like to know the strain, THC/CBD content, possible effects and what issues it may help with. There's a strain for everything, from creativity, to increased focus, to increased energy, to the couch varieties. The problem we're seeing with it causing psychosis is mainly due to the fact that because it's illegal, you have no idea what you're taking. And if someone wants to take something, they'll take it, whether it's legal or not. Making it legal would reduce that number (because there will always be those who either abuse or should know better, same as drink).

I also love the comments in this, and other similar threads, about how they all know someone who smoked weed, and then they became depressed and smoked more weed, and took other drugs and then died. Wasn't the other concoctions of chemicals (coke, MDMA, etc), it's was definitely the weed that did it, even thought again it's never been attributed directly to any death. But let's not let science tell us what to think.

Anyway, the world is changing. I think now would be the perfect time to legalise it here in Ireland. Would create a brand new micro-economy, which would quickly become a bigger one. It would create jobs in the industries of growing, harvesting, curing, packaging, transport, retail, entertainment. The non-THC plant, hemp, can be used in so many other industries, including rope, textiles, clothing, shoes, food, paper, bioplastics, insulation, construction (hempcrete) and biofuel.

As Wanderer proved, people don't want to inform themselves. They want other people to find the positives so they can completely ignore them and continue to believe it's the devils lettuce. Unfortunately, even though the masses of boards think it should be fully legalised (just under 70% on the above poll at time of typing), there are still too many wanderers out there clinging to outdated and ill informed ideals and "facts" to look beyond their own opinion, regardless of the amount of evidence given to them.

Also, some evidence, and it's in video format on YouTube so no excuse to not watch them:

Charlottes Web - a strain grown to help a child overcome Dravet Syndrome. It's a short version for your short attention spans, but the full hour long version is also available. Legal medications nearly killed her.
Helping people with Parkinsons - just one example, many more available
A palliative care doctor giving a TED talk on why it should be legal

And on and on.

Excellent post, I cringe and despair reading a lot of these kind of threads with people who are so uninformed on the subject it’s not funny. The “war on drugs” is a misguided unmitigated disaster that empowers drug gangs and creates violence and death in near unquantifiable levels.

For anybody who really wants to learn a few things, read Johann Hari’s books (chasing the scream, lost connections) or watch a few of his Ted talks. If we even repurposed resources from making people criminals to helping people with addictions , the compounded benefits would be far greater then our current return on our strategy.

Thelonious Monk · 23-06-2020 10:47am

Decriminalisation only

I was involved in the administration of an Oireachtas committee on illegal drugs about 5 years ago and all the submissions were pretty much in favour of decriminalisation, including many from former and current Garda. It's kind of silly what they're doing now, and it doesn't work.
Heroin addiction should be treated like the illness that it is in my opinion. We need better programs for addicts.

AbusesToilets · 23-06-2020 10:55am

Decriminalisation only

It's down to vested interests and money. There's huge opposition from groups like the alcohol industry, to pharma companies who produce opiate based pain meds. They'd all stand to lose a lot of money from THC products being easily available. Working in a field that sees a lot of folks dealing with chronic pain and neuro trauma, I feel particularly strongly with respect to the benefits of weed and psychotropics.

Rezident · 23-06-2020 6:05pm

Decriminalisation only

You are just transferring hundreds of millions of Euro to criminal gangs like the Kinahan's each year instead of it going to the Revenue, as happens in more advanced countries, which would improve our public services (badly needed) and reduce our income tax bills.

It's a plant. A plant that in 10,000 years has never killed anyone. People with mental health issues should not be using psychoactive drugs (obviously), but banning it for everyone clearly failed long ago (it is easily available and has been for decades) so regulating (and heavily taxing) is the sensible solution.

Some of the ignorance in this thread is shocking, some of you sound like you are still living in the Dark Ages. But I suppose looking down on people who use a less socially-acceptable drug than you do makes you feel better about your alcoholism etc., good luck with that. Maybe you should just chill out and have a space cake.

Ardillaun · 23-06-2020 8:43pm

Decriminalisation only

CrankyHaus wrote: »

IME alcohol is far more of a gateway drug. People are far more likely to make stupid choices and try another drug after a rake of pints than they are after smoking a joint.

Cannabis is far from harmless, and the OTT advocates of it as a miracle solution for everything are eejits, but the most sensible way to manage its harm is legalisation.

Few drugs compete with alcohol when it comes to the dangers posed to others by intoxicated users. Meth perhaps? Cannabis certainly doesn’t.

Here in Canada, my friend’s elderly mother had terrible back pain after a fall. She was put on opioids like way too many people here and became highly confused, actually began hallucinating. They were stopped and she was given some sort of medicinal cannabis instead. She was right as rain in no time.

Ardillaun · 23-06-2020 9:12pm

Decriminalisation only

Gooey Looey wrote: »

You can get a criminal record for possession this can lead to issues with employment

You can be banned from entering the US even if you just admit to having used it in the distant past.

Why is Ireland lagging behind the world in cannabis legalisation / decriminalisation?

Comments