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Why is Ireland lagging behind the world in cannabis legalisation / decriminalisation?

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    #92
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    timsey tiger wrote: »
    Benefits - ?

    Negatives - addiction, lung cancer, mental health issues, ...

    Tax Revenue, freeing up Garda and customs time to work on actual crimes, an alternative less dangerous legal drug than alcohol, freeing up jails and courts by not prosecuting non violent criminals, giving young men who would otherwise have a criminal record a proper chance in life by not prosecuting them for a harmless crime.


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    #93
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Ok, first off, let's get the myth out of the way.

    Legalising won't impact the drink industry. If people want to drink, they drink. If people want to smoke, they already do.

    Legalising will not remove it from criminals. Importing, licensing, taxing and regulating costs money. The Criminals won't worry about that so will stay in business. Cigarettes and alcohol are still smuggled and sold illegally. It will be the same.

    Legalising will save Garda and customs time and effort. Well no. Licensing and regulation takes both money and time. It may become more cost neutral but it won't reduce it. Crimes will still exist as well. If anything I would suggest Gardai and customs would spend more time on the issue.

    Now that's out of the way. You won't stop people smoking. Even in countries with very strict drug laws and pretty easy laws overall, drugs are big business.

    At least if we give people a legal option, it's safer for them to not interact with Criminals and the product may well prove healthier. May not as well but I suspect it will.

    The one caveat would be that being in possession of unlicensed weed carried penalties.

    I think society as a whole needs to be met halfway on this one. It's ridiculous how many excuses you hear from smokers that buy on Moore street. Those sellers aren't saints people. They are Criminals who work for bigger and far nastier people as well.

    If it was legal it would not be imported, it would be grown locally. You'd be cutting out 90% of the supply chain costs and the cost of seizures. Unless there was incredible taxes put on it would most likely be cheaper when legal.


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    #94
    Jet Black
    Registered Users Posts: 3,843 ✭✭✭Jet Black


    timsey tiger wrote: »
    Benefits - ?

    Negatives - addiction, lung cancer, mental health issues, ...

    It's not addictive*
    It doesn't cause lung cancer (doesn't have to be smoked)
    Mental health benefits?

    *Anything can be addictive.
    It's nowhere near addictive as the other legal drugs.


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    #95
    ladystardust
    Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ladystardust


    snotboogie wrote: »
    If it was legal it would not be imported, it would be grown locally. You'd be cutting out 90% of the supply chain costs and the cost of seizures. Unless there was incredible taxes put on it would most likely be cheaper when legal.

    I dunno, bananas are legal but grow better in warmer sunnier climates. It takes a lot of light and warmth to grow a good yielding plant..... or so I'm told. Wouldn't know anything about it officer.


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    #96
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    It should be legal for anyone over 65 for recreational use.


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    #97
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Decriminalisation only
    The legalization of marijuana in several U.S. states has brought numerous economic benefits and job creation is certainly one of the more noticeable ones. Even though the Bureau of Labor Statistics does not report on job gains within the industry due to marijuana's legal status at federal level, a report from Leafly recently claimed that the number of direct and indirect jobs created through legalization grew to 300,000 last year. Another obvious economic benefit is of course tax revenue, something which was also highlighted in Leafly's report.

    Out of ten legal states (plus D.C.), seven currently tax and regulate revenue-producing stores. With those taxes typically 10 to 37% higher than local sales tax, it comes as little surprise that some states raked in hundreds of millions of dollars last year. Out of all states where recreational marijuana has been given the green light, Washington made the most in taxes last year with an estimated $319 million. California was close behind with $300 million while Colorado recorded the third-highest estimated tax revenue with $266 million.

    What is all that money used for? Leafly said that it supports jobs in school construction, drug abuse programs and medical research, among other areas. Aurora in Colorado is a notable example of pot money put to good use with the municipality using $900,000 to open a space for individuals experiencing homelessness. The Aurora Day Resource Center was developed in an old police department gym and it is aimed to give homeless people a place to go during the day while providing access to basic services. Pueblo in Colorado was using marijuana tax revenue to fund scholarships for underprivileged students last year.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/03/26/which-states-made-the-most-tax-revenue-from-marijuana-in-2018-infographic/


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    #98
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    Decriminalisation only
    It works very well in Canada.


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    #99
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Decriminalisation only
    I support legalising it but it's an exaggeration to say we lag behind the world; yes, we're behind some countries but most of the world still regards it as illegal. It's not like Ireland is uniquely conservative or particularly "backwards" in this regard.


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    #100
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Jet Black wrote: »
    It's not addictive*
    It doesn't cause lung cancer (doesn't have to be smoked)
    Mental health benefits?

    *Anything can be addictive.
    It's nowhere near addictive as the other legal drugs.

    * incoherent thoughts, must be weed induced reasoning.

    Mental health benefits, just like the benefits of radium I'd say.

    Those arguments about the economic benefits of weed production are the exact same as for tobacco, I think the rest of society will tell the weed industry to f**k off when the true costs become apparent in 20 years.


    It also smells.


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    #101
    ladystardust
    Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ladystardust


    timsey tiger wrote: »
    * incoherent thoughts, must be weed induced reasoning.

    Mental health benefits, just like the benefits of radium I'd say.

    Those arguments about the economic benefits of weed production are the exact same as for tobacco, I think the rest of society will tell the weed industry to f**k off when the true costs become apparent in 20 years.


    It also smells.

    Only if its smoked. And even then, cigarette smoke smells horrific also. Society hasnt told big tobacco to eff off just yet. Marijuana is Just another choice of mood altering substance. Like tobacco, alcohol, coffee, caffeine. And to be fair THC is fairly benign compared to tobacco and alcohol


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    #102
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Decriminalisation only
    Jet Black wrote:
    It's not addictive* It doesn't cause lung cancer (doesn't have to be smoked) Mental health benefits?


    If you have preexisting mental health issues, don't go near the stuff, it ll more than likely makes things much worse


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    #103
    Jet Black
    Registered Users Posts: 3,843 ✭✭✭Jet Black


    timsey tiger wrote: »
    It also smells.

    So does bull****, if only we could ban that.


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    #104
    chrissb8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭chrissb8


    Decriminalisation only
    Gradius wrote: »
    Well the other bloke disappeared.

    My point is that the opinion of a person who's number one priority is getting stoned should not be trusted when they start bleating about all these supposed benefits for others.

    All these things like getting rid of criminality associated with drugs...its not exactly stopping them now, is it? It's not their priority now, is it? They don't care.

    It would be nice for them to have a guilt-free drug, but when it comes to the shove, it doesn't matter to them anyway.

    Talking out of their hole, in other words.

    Well, here I am now. When I get weed I get it from a local guy who gets his stuff off local growers. My number one priority is my life. Getting stoned isn't the be-all and end all of most stoners days. If there's something to be done it gets done and then I will smoke.

    The done thing is people buy it in bulk off the dark web, from a grower and then break it all up into sellable amounts e.g. 3-4grams or a quarter.

    People seem to have an impression that it's coming from really dodgy sources which yes maybe that's true in some cases (again why it should be legalised). But for most part, that is not what I've experienced but really once you have found a reliable dealer you tend to stay loyal by virtue of the fact you know what you're getting.

    It would be nice to have guilt-free clothing too, but you're not about to look at the label of every piece of clothing you buy and check the charter for workers rights are you?

    I'm finding it amazing all the fear-mongering and conjecture going on when there is empirical evidence for the strong benefits of the drug and also the fact that it works in places with much bigger populations than Ireland. Or maybe people are forming an opinion on their own prejudices as opposed to factual evidence?

    Think it's more the latter.


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    #105
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    And how many doped out potheads are a positive influence on society?
    Does it help them to work and contribute to society, or does it just mean they can be lazy nobodies drugged out on their sofa?

    Of course it's a gateway drug.
    They get their weed from drug dealers, you don't think they try upselling?

    I'd a brother-in-law... never harmed a soul, but loved his weed.
    Out of employment more than he was in it.

    Got a call he was found dead on his sofa.
    I still remember the roars of his mother as his body was brought into their sitting room before the funeral.

    These days, alcohol would be considered a drug and banned. But too ingrained in society.

    Decriminalising drugs only helps the useless losers that use them, certainly does absolutely no good for the decent people who contribute to society.


    what a load of lazy bollocks. I know many people - myself included - who hold down good jobs, work as hard as anyone, isnt a 'useless loser' and smoke pot.

    Better than alcohol and not as harmful.


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    #106
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Decriminalisation only
    maccored wrote:
    Better than alcohol and not as harmful.


    Tis is me bollocks


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    #107
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Decriminalisation only
    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Tis is me bollocks

    Care to back that up with some dangers!

    3 people a day die from alcohol in this country


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    #108
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    ladystardust wrote: »
    Only if its smoked. And even then, cigarette smoke smells horrific also. Society hasnt told big tobacco to eff off just yet. Marijuana is Just another choice of mood altering substance. Like tobacco, alcohol, coffee, caffeine. And to be fair THC is fairly benign compared to tobacco and alcohol

    Yes it is very hard fight off the vested interests involved, tobacco, alcohol, big pharma, ... Anybody would be a naive fool to believe cannabis will be any different. Lots of people in us, thought cannabis would be a nice cottage industry, it didn't take long for the big industry take over.


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    #109
    Fracture
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Fracture


    Decriminalisation only
    This country is a long way off making it legal.

    This article was published just before the election on each parties stance on the topic.
    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-political-parties-drug-policy-4993553-Feb2020/

    I'd imagine the political parties in this country don't want to touch the subject as it might damage potential votes. A lot of people in the country still have a view on cannabis that reflects the bad propaganda put out decades ago, which is evident in this thread.


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    #110
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,810 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    snotboogie wrote: »
    Tax Revenue, freeing up Garda and customs time to work on actual crimes, an alternative less dangerous legal drug than alcohol, freeing up jails and courts by not prosecuting non violent criminals, giving young men who would otherwise have a criminal record a proper chance in life by not prosecuting them for a harmless crime.

    While I'm indifferent to legalisation, nobody is in jail for smoking cannabis so this is nonsense.


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    #111
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Decriminalisation only
    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    While I'm indifferent to legalisation, nobody is in jail for smoking cannabis so this is nonsense.

    You can get a criminal record for possession this can lead to issues with employment and travel


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    #112
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Decriminalisation only
    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Care to back that up with some dangers!

    3 people a day die from alcohol in this country

    yup, ive seen it used as a gateway drug, i know people that have a weed addiction, including family members, and their mental state is not good, long term unemployment, paranoid ideation and other complex behavioral problems, more than likely induced from a lifetime use of weed and other drugs, but particularly weed. it really does a lot of harm, maybe as harmful as alcohol


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    #113
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    We have enough people off their heads already on alcohol and heaven knows what else. As a nation we have more than our share of mental illness, addiction issues, we have too many vulnerabilities. I know for a start cannabis does not suit me personally, had very bad reaction to the stuff and never took the stuff again. And I’d be more than worried about people who are so anxious and eager to gain access to cannabis or anything mind altering-they are probably the ones who need to avoid them. I don’t want to encounter any more people off their heads particularly whilst driving a vehicle.


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    #114
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Decriminalisation only
    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    yup, ive seen it used as a gateway drug, i know people that have a weed addiction, including family members, and their mental state is not good, long term unemployment, paranoid ideation and other complex behavioral problems, more than likely induced from a lifetime use of weed and other drugs, but particularly weed. it really does a lot of harm, maybe as harmful as alcohol

    If their mental state is poor they shouldn't be self medicating with cannabis, alcohol or any other drug. I know plenty of precessionals who partake from time to time who live normal healthy professional working lives.


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    #115
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Decriminalisation only
    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    We have enough people off their heads already on alcohol and heaven knows what else. As a nation we have more than our share of mental illness, addiction issues, we have too many vulnerabilities. I know for a start cannabis does not suit me personally, had very bad reaction to the stuff and never took the stuff again. And I’d be more than worried about people who are so anxious and eager to gain access to cannabis or anything mind altering-they are probably the ones who need to avoid them. I don’t want to encounter any more people off their heads particularly whilst driving a vehicle.

    Agreed, stoned people should not be driving while stoned. It's already the law.

    Cannabis is readily available, anyone that wants it can easily get it without any bother. Keeping it illegal does in no way reduce availablity!


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    #116
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Excellent point. Prohibition may have made sense decades ago, when the drug was not available everywhere. But that time is long passed.

    IME alcohol is far more of a gateway drug. People are far more likely to make stupid choices and try another drug after a rake of pints than they are after smoking a joint.

    Cannabis is far from harmless, and the OTT advocates of it as a miracle solution for everything are eejits, but the most sensible way to manage its harm is legalisation.


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    #117
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Decriminalisation only
    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    If their mental state is poor they shouldn't be self medicating with cannabis, alcohol or any other drug. I know plenty of precessionals who partake from time to time who live normal healthy professional working lives.

    unfortunately self medicating more or less goes hand in hand with complex disorders including mental health issues, its common to experience this, it shows a dramatic failure in our mental health services and our health system as a whole in order to deal with these complex issues. ive self medicated myself in the past with alcohol, thankfully i stopped there and never moved onto illegal drugs, id be a train wreck now if i did, thankfully i realized alcohol was doing great damage to my mental well being, and stopped drinking a few years ago, and started using the mental services, with great effect.

    ive worked with lads that horsed everything into themselves, particularly at the weekends, but also during working hours, this included higher level employees, management etc, i personally think the dysfunction that is created from such activities shows up somewhere in their lives, if not professionally, but in their personal lives


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    #118
    nice bit of green
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭nice bit of green


    Decriminalisation only
    I’d argue that giving it some sort of decriminalised/legalised classification would reduce the amount of people taking it while operating machinery/driving cars etc.
    The cat is out of the bag. The vast majority of people with any sort of relationship with it, know it to be relatively harmless. Sincere apologies to any of you where this is not the case.
    Start treating it and the general population with the respect we deserve and people’s’ attitudes will change as regards to what they will and won’t do while stoned.


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    #119
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Excellent point. Prohibition may have made sense decades ago, when the drug was not available everywhere. But that time is long passed.

    IME alcohol is far more of a gateway drug. People are far more likely to make stupid choices and try another drug after a rake of pints than they are after smoking a joint.

    Cannabis is far from harmless, and the OTT advocates of it as a miracle solution for everything are eejits, but the most sensible way to manage its harm is legalisation.

    Never understand the people saying that alcohol is as bad so cannabis should be legal. Surely the logical thinking would be the banning of alcohol. But ultimately the potheads want their alcohol too. They're fooling nobody except themselves.


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    #120
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    kowloonkev wrote: »
    Never understand the people saying that alcohol is as bad so cannabis should be legal. Surely the logical thinking would be the banning of alcohol. But ultimately the potheads want their alcohol too. They're fooling nobody except themselves.


    Banning alcohol has been tried before. It was a disaster.
    The logical thing would be making public policy based on realism rather than childish absolutism.


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    #121
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Banning alcohol has been tried before. It was a disaster.
    The logical thing would be making public policy based on realism rather than childish absolutism.

    But it's still the logical thinking, rather than legalizing new harmful substances just because other harmful substances are already legal.

    Childish whataboutism is no better.


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