Messy farm inheritance issue

blueberrypie · 20-06-2020 07:27PM

Has there been any progress for the friend of the OP?

jus_tin4 · 20-06-2020 10:40PM

Don’t think it’s completely unreasonable to expect to have to compensate if she wants the whole farm, I will be in a similar situation in a few years and I would expect to have to compensate if I want the lot. Man or a woman I would think it’s only right you compensate if you want the lot, but more than likely not market value

Water John · 20-06-2020 11:17PM

Haven't read all this thread but once the parents realise the farm will be sold to cash out for the three family members, I think they'll have a recondsideration.

AckwelFoley · 21-06-2020 01:00PM

Difficult situation for the parents but the wider issue of farms getting split and split again and sold is killing rural Ireland. Larger farms buying up smaller farms and people moving to the city.

I've lived in Denmark. An inheritance tax situation caused similar. Large co OP farms buying all the smaller farms and now decimated rural life

Dunedin · 21-06-2020 04:53PM

jus_tin4 wrote: »

Don’t think it’s completely unreasonable to expect to have to compensate if she wants the whole farm, I will be in a similar situation in a few years and I would expect to have to compensate if I want the lot. Man or a woman I would think it’s only right you compensate if you want the lot, but more than likely not market value

Depends what you term ‘compensate’ OP was referring to the girl having to buy out her brothers so that could mean market value. So buying 2/3 of 80 acres - 50 acres at circa €7-10000 an acre is anywhere between €350 and €500,000.

I would term that unreasonable and tell the parents to keep it.

A site and maybe a small cash payment would be more like it.

doc22 · 21-06-2020 06:14PM

Dunedin wrote: »

Depends what you term ‘compensate’ OP was referring to the girl having to buy out her brothers so that could mean market value. So buying 2/3 of 80 acres - 50 acres at circa €7-10000 an acre is anywhere between €350 and €500,000.

I would term that unreasonable and tell the parents to keep it.

A site and maybe a small cash payment would be more like it.

Were would this cash payment come from?

memorystick · 21-06-2020 06:28PM

The auld lad must have been a force good farmer if he thinks there’s that much money in it.

All the previous generation has to do is not leave a mess for the next. Simple as. Nursing homes are full of people who couldn’t manage that.

doc22 · 21-06-2020 07:16PM

memorystick wrote: »

The auld lad must have been a force good farmer if he thinks there’s that much money in it.

All the previous generation has to do is not leave a mess for the next. Simple as. Nursing homes are full of people who couldn’t manage that.

The next gen shouldn't be relying on anything. They could be near pension age themselves before inheriting anything.

memorystick · 21-06-2020 07:26PM

doc22 wrote: »

The next gen shouldn't be relying on anything. They could be near pension age themselves before inheriting anything.

A lot of farmers find it difficult to organise the issue of handing over. Plenty of families divided because of feeble minded auld lads who were never good for anything and come along and make a complete scutter of it. My family is testament to that.

carrollsno1 · 21-06-2020 08:16PM

memorystick wrote: »

A lot of farmers find it difficult to organise the issue of handing over. Plenty of families divided because of feeble minded auld lads who were never good for anything and come along and make a complete scutter of it. My family is testament to that.

Same as my own. One generation holding onto it for nearly 80 years place left in a state, depopulated split in two one half planted by the lad who never did a tap on the place.
Worst thing is all the other cousins and aunts and uncles never gave a **** for the lad that got the half and planted it whereas we had time for him tbe whole way along now hes the most popular man around with them now as he has a sizable plantation to his name now.

wrangler · 21-06-2020 08:44PM

memorystick wrote: »

A lot of farmers find it difficult to organise the issue of handing over. Plenty of families divided because of feeble minded auld lads who were never good for anything and come along and make a complete scutter of it. My family is testament to that.

The feeble minded young lads should have it sorted long before the ould ones get old,
You either sort it in your twenties or leave and forget about it until everyone is dead..... sell the place and share then,

memorystick · 21-06-2020 08:57PM

wrangler wrote: »

The feeble minded young lads should have it sorted long before the ould ones get old,
You either sort it in your twenties or leave and forget about it until everyone is dead..... sell the place and share then,

You can’t push rope.

Reggie. · 21-06-2020 09:10PM

memorystick wrote: »

A lot of farmers find it difficult to organise the issue of handing over. Plenty of families divided because of feeble minded auld lads who were never good for anything and come along and make a complete scutter of it. My family is testament to that.

I'd say we are going down the same road

memorystick · 21-06-2020 09:27PM

Reggie. wrote: »

I'd say we are going down the same road

It was the toughest phase of my life so far. I had a thread here about 7 years ago about it under a different name. Got it sorted but a lot of damage afterwards. Not going into it.

I hope you get it sorted. The amount of awkward parents who make a complete balls of the most important job astounds me. Selfish inconsiderate cuñts.

Dunedin · 21-06-2020 09:34PM

wrangler wrote: »

The feeble minded young lads should have it sorted long before the ould ones get old,
You either sort it in your twenties or leave and forget about it until everyone is dead..... sell the place and share then,

Seriously hope you’re having a laugh here.

wrangler · 21-06-2020 09:42PM

memorystick wrote: »

You can’t push rope.

Those I see in that position are just getting more and more frustrated trying to ''push rope'' , yet they're facilitating the owner hanging on to the farm by being available to help all the time.
No one should be pressured into handing over nor should any young persons time be wasted either, intentions should be made clear.
We had a case here locally where, when one of the family was getting married, they were all told that the farm would be divided after the parents time, yet one of them stayed at home on the farm. 25 years later parents died and then the crack started but the terms of the will had to be carried out

wrangler · 21-06-2020 09:55PM

Dunedin wrote: »

Seriously hope you’re having a laugh here.

No, I've seen too many places and young lives in a mess.
Plenty of opportunities for young people now other than walking into a mess.
at home.

Bass Reeves · 21-06-2020 10:13PM

Dunedin wrote: »

Depends what you term ‘compensate’ OP was referring to the girl having to buy out her brothers so that could mean market value. So buying 2/3 of 80 acres - 50 acres at circa €7-10000 an acre is anywhere between €350 and €500,000.

I would term that unreasonable and tell the parents to keep it.

A site and maybe a small cash payment would be more like it.

Too many people inherit farms that are not business focused. However in this case the parentd are being fair. They have indicated that they consider all three children must be looked after.

There seems to be a fairly modern house away from the old farm yard. However the parents think that they would prefer to sort out all the children now rather than later.

Land in Mayo(where this case is based is in the 6-7 rather than the 7-10 bracket AFAIK. Sites are no longer the answer as mostly they are no longer a liquid asset. As I pointed out earlier such a farm us capable of throwing 25k+ of free cash/year. If present stock, buildings and machinery are included at 350K she be buying it at 50c in the euro.

It may be possible to consider an option where she makes a contribution to here siblings now and the remainder of the settlement is made after her parents lifetime when there home cones into play

Bass Reeves · 21-06-2020 10:19PM

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Same as my own. One generation holding onto it for nearly 80 years place left in a state, depopulated split in two one half planted by the lad who never did a tap on the place.
Worst thing is all the other cousins and aunts and uncles never gave a **** for the lad that got the half and planted it whereas we had time for him tbe whole way along now hes the most popular man around with them now as he has a sizable plantation to his name now.

Unless you inherited it in you teens and lived until beyond 90 will you have a farm for 80 years. Too many live in a Dreamland where they consider what is and is not an economic reality. Unless in dairy most farms are uneconomical. You would run a 200 acre drystock farm in 15-20 hours a week if focused and we'll set up

Too many are not focused on profit and are if the opinion that will not work here. Milk quota gave a lot to answer for

Dunedin · 21-06-2020 11:52PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Too many people inherit farms that are not business focused. However in this case the parentd are being fair. They have indicated that they consider all three children must be looked after.

There seems to be a fairly modern house away from the old farm yard. However the parents think that they would prefer to sort out all the children now rather than later.

Don’t agree at all.

If it was an only son who was coming home to farm with a genuine interest and two sisters working away with zero interest, would you still say the same or would the parents either? I doubt it.

The reality is that all farming siblings have to have off farm job (dairy apart). The girl here is holding down her day job and seems to be doing plenty at weekends/holidays etc. to justify herself. Dividing it in 3 is ridiculous.

Putting myself in her situation, I am the youngest of 3 boys in ours. The other two never had any interest. I lived away from home for over 10 years but I always and I mean always, had the gra to come home to the land. Place was left to me and I work off farm in a busy job with a long daily commute and do my farming in max 10 hours a week as I have it well set up.

Farm will stay in family and hopefully when my turn comes I’ll pass it on in such a way that there will be no fighting over it.

Bass Reeves · 22-06-2020 12:54AM

Dunedin wrote: »

Don’t agree at all.

If it was an only son who was coming home to farm with a genuine interest and two sisters working away with zero interest, would you still say the same or would the parents either? I doubt it.

The reality is that all farming siblings have to have off farm job (dairy apart). The girl here is holding down her day job and seems to be doing plenty at weekends/holidays etc. to justify herself. Dividing it in 3 is ridiculous.

Putting myself in her situation, I am the youngest of 3 boys in ours. The other two never had any interest. I lived away from home for over 10 years but I always and I mean always, had the gra to come home to the land. Place was left to me and I work off farm in a busy job with a long daily commute and do my farming in max 10 hours a week as I have it well set up.

Farm will stay in family and hopefully when my turn comes I’ll pass it on in such a way that there will be no fighting over it.

I would have the same opinion whether it was male or female inheritor if all were treated similar regarding education. I do think it different if s person had or was encouraged to stay and has poor outside income prospects.

I have three children the eldest has a huge interest in farming mid do do the others but he has the most at present even though he's in NZ at the moment. All three got college educations, all three have/will have good job opportunities. If at the end of it all the only asset was the farm( which it's unlikely to be) while I might leave it in a way he could own it I expect that he or whomever inherited it made a balancing contribution to his siblings.

carrollsno1 · 22-06-2020 05:59AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Unless you inherited it in you teens and lived until beyond 90 will you have a farm for 80 years. Too many live in a Dreamland where they consider what is and is not an economic reality. Unless in dairy most farms are uneconomical. You would run a 200 acre drystock farm in 15-20 hours a week if focused and we'll set up

Too many are not focused on profit and are if the opinion that will not work here. Milk quota gave a lot to answer for

Inherited at 16 lived till 93.

roosky · 23-06-2020 01:07PM

blueberrypie wrote: »

Has there been any progress for the friend of the OP?

So the only progress has been that the girl in question wrote a heartfelt letter to her parents explaining that reasons she doesn't want the farm split and that its a genuine passion for farming and a want to continue the family farm for another generation. she discussed that the farm wasn't going to make big money and that its just wasn't an option to buy out the brothers at market value.

Her parents received this letter very well and understand her view but also want to be fair to the brothers.

They were to organise a family meeting but covid got in the way.....she is home every weekend farming so she was available but neither brother has been home since mid march (tells its own story) so discussions have been delayed.

Markcheese · 23-06-2020 09:12PM

How thrilled would the parents be if the daughter informed them that she's busy making a life for herself and to ring the brothers when calving time comes round ,or when there's paperwork to be done ?
Some sort of limited family trust ? With the farm controlled by the designated sibling (whoever works it ), and passed on to whoever worked it's designated heir / relative .. if the land gets sold the money gets split ..(maybe going back one generation ?)

einn32 · 23-06-2020 09:30PM

In my opinion pining away for land is no way to live. You're either going to get the place or not. It sounds like it will be split. So she either buys out the others or let's it go. Assuming she gets no pay then I would stop working there on weekends too unless she has the Intention of buying the others out. It's amazing the hold land can have over people and they work away in the hope they get it and then the owner goes off and sells it.

Obviously I don't know the family dynamics and who knows the parents might just give it to her. But they are probably trying to keep everyone happy and avoid hassle down the road. You would think the siblings would be annoyed if they missed out on some money.

whelan2 · 23-06-2020 09:34PM

I was talking about something to my dad yesterday and he just said its normally the one who does all the donkey work is forgotten about and wonder boy arrives back for a few hours every so often and gets loads

Donald Trump · 23-06-2020 09:36PM

einn32 wrote: »

In my opinion pining away for land is no way to live. You're either going to get the place or not. It sounds like it will be split. So she either buys out the others or let's it go. Assuming she gets no pay then I would stop working there on weekends too unless she has the Intention of buying the others out. It's amazing the hold land can have over people and they work away in the hope they get it and then the owner goes off and sells it.

Obviously I don't know the family dynamics and who knows the parents might just give it to her. But they are probably trying to keep everyone happy and avoid hassle down the road. You would think the siblings would be annoyed if they missed out on some money.

Not sure why all the advice to stop helping out. If she is only willing to give her parents a hand if they put up a specific amount of money then if I was them I'd be telling her where to stick her "help".

doc22 · 23-06-2020 09:39PM

Markcheese wrote: »

How thrilled would the parents be if the daughter informed them that she's busy making a life for herself and to ring the brothers when calving time comes round ,or when there's paperwork to be done ?
Some sort of limited family trust ? With the farm controlled by the designated sibling (whoever works it ), and passed on to whoever worked it's designated heir / relative .. if the land gets sold the money gets split ..(maybe going back one generation ?)

I presume they'd be happy for her

They could sell or rent the land and live a comfortable life.

Perhaps she doesn't play as vital a role as she thinks.

Hard Knocks · 23-06-2020 10:21PM

doc22 wrote: »

I presume they'd be happy for her They could sell or rent the land and live a comfortable life.

Perhaps she doesn't play as vital a role as she thinks.

Or maybe she does and it’s taking for granted

She’s done the right thing by putting all out in the open, now it’s up to the rest
I can understand everyone’s position

doc22 · 23-06-2020 10:36PM

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Or maybe she does and it’s taking for granted

She’s done the right thing by putting all out in the open, now it’s up to the rest
I can understand everyone’s position

I can only imagine what the parents think with one that says If you don't give me the farm I'll have to go and make a career for myself like my bothers:rolleyes:.

Messy farm inheritance issue

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