Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings

plodder · 16-06-2020 05:45PM

Penfailed wrote: »

You do know that the American legal system is completely different to here, yeah?

It's not completely different, but a judgement of a county court in Ohio is not likely to end up having much influence here. If it were the Ohio Supreme Court or the US Supreme Court, it might well though.

Companies are far less likely to take a case like that here though because of the wide spread support the lockdown had, though if they kept it going much longer, that situation could have changed.

Goldengirl · 16-06-2020 05:50PM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Indeed. But when results were looking positive why was it not rolled out sooner. But I appreciate that a newspaper article is second hand.

Agree . Unconscionable. Unless it is just a retrospective study looking back on what treatments have worked better than others.
Steroids are being used to treat serious inflammatory lung conditions all the time .
This is being used in Ireland since the start so don't think that Covid patients in ICU have been getting any less treatment than anywhere else.
Steroids can raise blood sugars which has been shown to have a negative effect in Covid 19 ( why diabetics are so at risk) and have to be carefully monitored not to cause more issues than t hey help.

Beginning to think Oxford are flying kites to cover up for the failure of their vaccine here , but am sure I will stand corrected if it is not so.

Ginger n Lemon · 16-06-2020 05:52PM

Good news good news - from abroad ofcourse, our lot in the govt here are absolutely useless and "pro active" is not a phrase ever used on Merrion St.

Spain to open most EU borders June 21
The move comes 10 days sooner than originally planned.

By SARAH WHEATON 6/14/20, 3:36 PM CET Updated 6/14/20, 4:11 PM CET
Spain will reopen its borders with most other EU countries on June 21 — 10 days earlier than initially planned, Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez said Sunday.

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-to-open-most-eu-borders-june-21/

That is how its done. Show some bloody intent, not yap on about "cinemas could re open in August" this is just getting disgusting now.

Tell me how · 16-06-2020 05:53PM

^^^

Beijing shuts city schools again over new virus outbreak

China had eased much of its anti-coronavirus measures in recent months as the government all but declared victory against the disease that emerged in Wuhan late last year.

"The epidemic situation in the capital is extremely severe," Beijing city spokesman Xu Hejian warned at a press conference.

Goldengirl · 16-06-2020 05:56PM

hmmm wrote: »

It's almost as if consumers will want to see the virus under control before they will start buying stuff again.

IKEA has made so much from 'pent up consumer demand ' it is returning any Covid 19 payment paid to its workers in all the EU countries it is operating in, voluntarily
I suppose their online business helps that return to profit.

average_runner · 16-06-2020 05:57PM

Tell me how wrote: »

^^^

Beijing shuts city schools again over new virus outbreak

This will be interesting, if they dont control it quickly, we will be repeating the same measures 5 months time

is_that_so · 16-06-2020 05:58PM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Indeed. But when results were looking positive why was it not rolled out sooner. But I appreciate that a newspaper article is second hand.

Always best to complete the clinical trial anyway.

hmmm · 16-06-2020 05:59PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Agree . Unconscionable. Unless it is just a retrospective study looking back on what treatments have worked better than others.

This is part of the larger UK study which is studying the effects of a number of potential drugs against Covid. Looks very normal to me, now they have the results of this arm I believe it is going into immediate use.

Beginning to think Oxford are flying kites to cover up for the failure of their vaccine here , but am sure I will stand corrected if it is not so.

It's a different study entirely, not sure why you would think that.

average_runner · 16-06-2020 06:01PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Good news good news - from abroad ofcourse, our lot in the govt here are absolutely useless and "pro active" is not a phrase ever used on Merrion St.

Spain to open most EU borders June 21
The move comes 10 days sooner than originally planned.

By SARAH WHEATON 6/14/20, 3:36 PM CET Updated 6/14/20, 4:11 PM CET
Spain will reopen its borders with most other EU countries on June 21 — 10 days earlier than initially planned, Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez said Sunday.

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-to-open-most-eu-borders-june-21/

That is how its done. Show some bloody intent, not yap on about "cinemas could re open in August" this is just getting disgusting now.

Spain has to do this, tourism is massive to them. If second wave hits in sept or oct it wont affect their tourism so a good risk to take.

If your economy depends on more than tourism, then you got to make the right calls for long term gain

If a second wave comes, then you will see a proper recession with alot more suicides. It be greatest recession in history

Goldengirl · 16-06-2020 06:09PM

hmmm wrote: »

This is part of the larger UK study which is studying the effects of a number of potential drugs against Covid. Looks very normal to me, now they have the results of this arm I believe it is going into immediate use.

It's a different study entirely, not sure why you would think that.

I think they / or the UK government are keen to show they have some control .

Fair enough re the studies, but if you read my post you will see that steroids have always been used in Irish hospitals , especially through this . They would most certainly not have been withheld from any patient , to prove a point , if that is what they did do . I don't know as the information there is very scant

It's not a new discovery , that's what I'm saying .

Micky 32 · 16-06-2020 06:12PM

Tell me how wrote: »

^^^

Beijing shuts city schools again over new virus outbreak

The virus isn’t going to go away anytime soon. We are going to have to learn to live with it. We are going to see outbreaks like this from time to time. It’s good they pounced on it quickly.

Goldengirl · 16-06-2020 06:14PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Always best to complete the clinical trial anyway.

A commonly used drug like Dexamethasone does not need trialling for patient safety so hopefully they would have put as many as needed on it if they were getting good results .

Not ethical otherwise in a crisis like they have with so many people dying there .
I presume this is just a look back study, or I hope it is .

0gac3yjefb5sv7 · 16-06-2020 06:14PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

The virus isn’t going to go away anytime soon. We are going to have to learn to live with it. We are going to see outbreaks like this from time to time. It’s good they pounced on it quickly.

If we keep going the way we are, it could drop off hugely. Much more than expected.

MickeyLeari · 16-06-2020 06:16PM

hmmm wrote: »

I don't think the Irish Supreme Court is going to pay much attention to a Constitutional challenge to public health rules with broad cross-party support.

No. They will base it on the legal arguments. Obviously the laws made by the Oireachtas matter but Government support doesn’t and rightfully so.

average_runner · 16-06-2020 06:17PM

Leighton Slimy Kitten wrote: »

If we keep going the way we are, it could drop off hugely. Much more than expected.

Time will tell. Need to see how China controls it and how Spain and Italy handle it

stephenjmcd · 16-06-2020 06:19PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

I think they / or the UK government are keen to show they have some control .

Fair enough re the studies, but if you read my post you will see that steroids have always been used in Irish hospitals , especially through this . They would most certainly not have been withheld from any patient , to prove a point , if that is what they did do . I don't know as the information there is very scant

It's not a new discovery , that's what I'm saying .

Yes it is a new discovery, every health system was experimenting with steroids to see what impact if any they would have. This study once fully published proves yes one of these treatments works and can be used going forward for the worst affected patients to increase their chance of survival.

Yes steroids have always been used in hospitals but maybe not this one with all covid patients, we don't know. You need a large study to find if theres any patterns picked up, in this case there was. Therefore you can look to recommend the steroid for the many now and not the few that were subject of the study.

This trial proves something we didn't know in relation to covid treatment so it is a new discovery, you can't say its not.

Micky 32 · 16-06-2020 06:19PM

average_runner wrote: »

Time will tell. Need to see how China controls it and how Spain and Italy handle it

That’s what i mean by learning to live with it, China were on the ball with this new outbreak no messing there.

MickeyLeari · 16-06-2020 06:19PM

hmmm wrote: »

It's almost as if consumers will want to see the virus under control before they will start buying stuff again.

Exactly. So if we open up pubs, restaurants etc now, there will be a natural social distancing so win win.

watlantic · 16-06-2020 06:23PM

The German minister for health has now come out and stated that there should NOT be any more mass testing as they are getting too many false positives, he even said MORE FALSE positive Corona virus test results than real positives.
Here's a link to the clip from the interview on Germany's main TV channel ARD on their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/berichtausberlin/videos/259572241980794

Micky 32 · 16-06-2020 06:23PM

MattS1 wrote: »

If we keep going the way we are, it could drop off hugely. Much more than expected.

Even though it feels like a lifetime ago it’s only taken us 2/3 months to get where we are today.

hmmm · 16-06-2020 06:24PM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

No. They will base it on the legal arguments. Obviously the laws made by the Oireachtas matter but Government support doesn’t and rightfully so.

The Supreme Court doesn't make decisions in a vacuum.

hmmm · 16-06-2020 06:25PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

but if you read my post you will see that steroids have always been used in Irish hospitals , especially through this . They would most certainly not have been withheld from any patient , to prove a point , if that is what they did do . I don't know as the information there is very scant

It's not a new discovery , that's what I'm saying .

I thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there was a lot of debate before this about whether steroids were helpful in treating Covid or not e.g.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/931505

is_that_so · 16-06-2020 06:29PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

A commonly used drug like Dexamethasone does not need trialling for patient safety so hopefully they would have put as many as needed on it if they were getting good results .

Not ethical otherwise in a crisis like they have with so many people dying there .
I presume this is just a look back study, or I hope it is .

I think it was a case of evaluating just how useful it could prove here with COVID-19, like the other potential candidates in the big WHO trial. The hype over hydroxychloroquine may also explain the caution and of course the need to do a proper credible trial.

Ginger n Lemon · 16-06-2020 06:29PM

average_runner wrote: »

Spain has to do this, tourism is massive to them. If second wave hits in sept or oct it wont affect their tourism so a good risk to take.

If your economy depends on more than tourism, then you got to make the right calls for long term gain

If a second wave comes, then you will see a proper recession with alot more suicides. It be greatest recession in history

Damn. That in bold is actual economy scare mongering. even to a guy like me. :pac:

In all seriousness, we shouldnt just disregard our tourism industry.
150,000 - 250,000 jobs in Irish tourism.

Leo should make an effort and lift that idiotic 14 day quarantine form requirement and 14 day quarantine recommendation. It is absolutely useless, a 3rd of arrivals dont even pick up the "mobile phone" when govt rings them to ask if they are quarantining.

MickeyLeari · 16-06-2020 06:33PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0616/1147785-central-bank-stability-report/

Central Bank warns of unprecedented economic shock due to Covid-19

By Robert Shortt
Economics Correspondent

The Central Bank has warned that the scale of the economic shock due to Covid-19 is "unprecedented" and will create pressure on the financial position of both borrowers and banks.

Central Bank Governor Gabriel Makhlouf said governments are facing "fantastic levels of uncertainty" over the future and warned that while the financial system is resilient, that resilience is not infinite.

He was speaking after the publication of the Central Bank's Financial Stability Review today.

In its Financial Stability Review, the Central Bank estimated that 80% of businesses covering almost 70% of all employment are affected either directly or indirectly by the containment measures through loss of sales, disruption in supply chains and physical distancing.

The Central Bank pointed out that half of small and medium sized businesses hold less than 5% of their annual sales in cash reserves.

Even when it comes to big companies, the Central Bank estimates that half of firms hold less than 8% of annual turnover in cash.

It warned the longer containment measures last, the greater the risk more companies will become insolvent.

It also warned that relying too much on debt might hamper a company's ability to survive by using debt to finance "pandemic-related losses".

The Central Bank said that while multinationals based here have been more resilient, they are not immune from developments in the global economy.

Describing global financial market conditions as "fragile", the Central Bank noted that Irish banks are in a much better position now than they were during the financial crisis.

The same goes for households. Tighter lending rules have lowered levels of indebtedness and exposure to falls in house prices, the bank said.

Today's report also included the results of a survey of property market professionals carried out in April.

It predicted a 5% fall in house prices this year and an expectation that national house prices will be just 2% higher in March 2023 than they were at the end of March this year.

As of 29 May, a total of 74,900 mortgage payment breaks were in place across the banking sector representing 11% of the mortgage market.

The Central Bank warns that some of the payment breaks "may ultimately require further restructuring or resolution".

It also warned that banks will face further pressure because less money is being borrowed and interest rates are lower, squeezing their profit margins.

stephenjmcd · 16-06-2020 06:35PM

hmmm wrote: »

I thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there was a lot of debate before this about whether steroids were helpful in treating Covid or not e.g.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/931505

There was alot of debate around this, everything was trial and error, now we have some sort of evidence, pending the full paper of course of a treatment that can be effective.

Its a study with a huge amount of benefit now fingers crossed.

Goldengirl · 16-06-2020 06:40PM

hmmm wrote: »

I thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there was a lot of debate before this about whether steroids were helpful in treating Covid or not e.g.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/931505

Yes but they were still being used , carefully .

Goldengirl · 16-06-2020 06:50PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yes it is a new discovery, every health system was experimenting with steroids to see what impact if any they would have. This study once fully published proves yes one of these treatments works and can be used going forward for the worst affected patients to increase their chance of survival.

Yes steroids have always been used in hospitals but maybe not this one with all covid patients, we don't know. You need a large study to find if theres any patterns picked up, in this case there was. Therefore you can look to recommend the steroid for the many now and not the few that were subject of the study.

This trial proves something we didn't know in relation to covid treatment so it is a new discovery, you can't say its not.

I would like to read the study properly first but hey that's good news if it is a new discovery . What I have said is that steroids have been used all the time before this and through this . Not privy to the details here as the link just gives a media blurb .

Penfailed · 16-06-2020 06:58PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

55% + of 8 million "covid cases" bad facts?

Are you having one of those Tyrone being part of Ireland moments again? :rolleyes:

You only choose the facts that suit your narrative.

Tyrone is on the island of Ireland, yes.

MickeyLeari · 16-06-2020 07:13PM

EU faces banking crisis if coronavirus stretches into 2021

New paper warns it would only take a fifth of loans not being repaid to wipe out reserves
Joe Brennan

The Central Bank noted in its latest biannual Financial Stability Review, published on Tuesday, that Irish banks have higher capital levels than the European average to absorb shock losses. Photograph: AFP
Europe faces a fresh banking crisis if the economic shock caused by coronavirus stretches into 2021, according to a new paper by a network of think tanks in the European Union.

The European Network for Economic and Fiscal Policy Research (EconPol), said that while banks have built up their capital bases and regulators have introduced a raft of new rules in the past decade to avoid a repeat of 2008 crash, it would only take a fifth of loans not being repaid across EU banks to wipe out their reserves.

“The Covid-19 crisis is a serious test of the reforms undertaken in the wake of the 2007-2008 financial crisis,” said the authors of the report. “That led to reforms that were intended to prevent a systemic financial crisis or, failing that, to mitigate its consequences. The reality of systemic risk was one of the major lessons of the financial crisis. But we are now faced with the reality of a health risk that has been previously underestimated.

Disasters

“On the scale of disasters, this health crisis is even more serious than a systemic financial crisis because of the way in which it simultaneously affects all economic activities at the global level,” they added.

The authors warn that if banks continued to offer supports granted to customers affected by the virus – including payment breaks and loan rescheduling – for long periods of time, “capital reserves will become depleted” and a mechanism introduced in the wake of the last crash to resolve ailing banks, initially by inflicting losses on bondholders, would be severely tested.

Analysts at Davy and Goodbody Stockbrokers estimate that Bank of Ireland, AIB and Permanent TSB face having to deal with more than €4 billion of bad loan losses stemming from the crisis over the course of three years.

While all three lenders, in which the State retains major stakes following bailouts during the last financial crisis, are forecast to post net losses this year as they take a hit from coronavirus, their capital levels will remain above regulatory requirements, according to the analysts.

The Central Bank noted in its latest biannual Financial Stability Review, published on Tuesday, that Irish banks have higher capital levels than the European average to absorb shock losses. However, Central Bank governor Gabriel Makhlouf noted that their reserves are “not infinite”.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings