Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

is_that_so · 15-06-2020 08:56AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

And this folks is why we shouldn't be flying,
Passengers with COVID-19 flew on flights to LAX, public not warned
https://www.foxnews.com/health/passenger-covid-19-flew-cross-country-flight-march-public-not-warned

They've pretty much traced it back from a care facility to the doctor.

It's bit dramatic. That was March 8 when the US just saw it as a Chinese disease.

caveat emptor · 15-06-2020 09:13AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

And this folks is why we shouldn't be flying,
Passengers with COVID-19 flew on flights to LAX, public not warned
https://www.foxnews.com/health/passenger-covid-19-flew-cross-country-flight-march-public-not-warned

They've pretty much traced it back from a care facility to the doctor.

Agree, thanks for sharing. Here's the more detailed LA times article on which that one was based.

Have we done any contact tracing around how the cases arrived here. We know there were cases from ski resorts. We know there were plenty of flights daily from Bergamo when it was kicking off.

What's to stop the whole thing happening again as our hyper low cost connected airport begins flying again?

Though no one knew it then, a man in first class, a retired Manhattan surgeon, was infected with the virus. The day after the flight, he was rushed by ambulance to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center with a high fever and phlegmy cough. The virus spread quickly among those he had come in contact with in the hours after leaving LAX, including at a Westside assisted living facility where a 32-year-old nurse and a dozen others later died.

Without instructions to self-quarantine or seek testing, more than 200 people on these flights returned to their families and communities ignorant of their exposure, potentially seeding new outbreaks.

“Christ,” said Dr. George Rutherford, formerly the state epidemiologist for California, upon hearing that passengers and crew weren’t contacted. “That’s a problem.”

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-14/travelers-flew-into-lax-with-coronavirus-passengers-were-not-warned

wadacrack · 15-06-2020 09:14AM

https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/1271502830801690624

Away With The Fairies · 15-06-2020 09:24AM

is_that_so wrote: »

It's bit dramatic. That was March 8 when the US just saw it as a Chinese disease.

How is that dramatic?

Sitting in a closed environment for an extended period of time just increases the overall exposure... And that's what being on a plane will do. Timing March 8th or June 15 doesn't make a difference when you have one person asymptomatic or presymtomatic on a plane.

caveat emptor · 15-06-2020 09:30AM

wadacrack wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/1271502830801690624

That is great news. Not so concerned of cases being imported from Italy. UK on other hand between raves and protests doesn't look good for now.

We have the most flights in the world between the two countries. Irresponsible allowing unrestricted travel / no quarantine. Would be nice to overlay the flights with that map. For those that don't know. Dublin Heathrow is busiest route in Europe.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-s-o-leary-says-airline-will-fly-through-uk-s-rubbish-quarantine-1.4273375

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/dublin-london-heathrow-named-busiest-air-route-in-europe-1.3484094

is_that_so · 15-06-2020 10:04AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How is that dramatic?

Sitting in a closed environment for an extended period of time just increases the overall exposure... And that's what being on a plane will do. Timing March 8th or June 15 doesn't make a difference when you have one person asymptomatic or presymtomatic on a plane.

It makes a difference to the knowledge available. It's all hindsight. On June 15, people will be wearing masks and there are other precautions in place. Asymptomatic was not considered a major factor in March any more than the "just a flu" virus.

is_that_so · 15-06-2020 10:05AM

Meanwhile to the great disappointment of some we're really happy with how we've done things.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/15/only-three-out-of-53-countries-say-us-has-handled-coronavirus-better-than-china

Away With The Fairies · 15-06-2020 10:21AM

is_that_so wrote: »

It makes a difference to the knowledge available. It's all hindsight. On June 15, people will be wearing masks and there are other precautions in place. Asymptomatic was not considered a major factor in March any more than the "just a flu" virus.

Are they stopping serving drinks and food on flights? People will have to take off their masks when they eat.

is_that_so · 15-06-2020 10:23AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Are they stopping serving drinks and food on flights? People will have to take off their masks when they eat.

I think they have on short haul flights. I don't know about long haul.

Away With The Fairies · 15-06-2020 10:26AM

is_that_so wrote: »

I think they have on short haul flights. I don't know about long haul.

They can't stop serving food on a long haul flight.

MickeyLeari · 15-06-2020 10:32AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

They can't stop serving food on a long haul flight.

Why not? They can presumably not prevent people from eating.

silverharp · 15-06-2020 10:40AM

It would be interesting to see the effects on top tier athletes, most wouldnt notice if they lost a couple of % of performance long term, but if your career depends on it?

https://twitter.com/Dr_FarrisD/status/1272297666718978049

stephenjmcd · 15-06-2020 10:43AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

They can't stop serving food on a long haul flight.

Airlines have limited in flight services on short haul, no hot food, everything must be pre packaged.

Long haul reduced offering.

Masks can be taken off when eating or drinking on board

Away With The Fairies · 15-06-2020 10:52AM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Why not? They can presumably not prevent people from eating.

You want food stopped on a long haul flight?

What about drinking water on a long haul flight? You have to drink on a long haul flight.

Masks are all good but this is the reality that someone will face on a flight. Not to mention, once someone sits down and thinks no one is looking, the mask can come off.

Away With The Fairies · 15-06-2020 10:56AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Airlines have limited in flight services on short haul, no hot food, everything must be pre packaged.

Long haul reduced offering.

Masks can be taken off when eating or drinking on board

So masks taken off when eating. This is a risk then on flights if there's someone unknowingly with the virus.

stephenjmcd · 15-06-2020 11:00AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So masks taken off when eating. This is a risk then on flights if there's someone unknowingly with the virus.

Well they're hardly going to be able to leave them on when eating or drinking.

Airline filtration systems are hosptial operating theatre standard, the risk isn't as high as you might think.

Looking forward to getting back to traveling.

Away With The Fairies · 15-06-2020 11:10AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well they're hardly going to be able to leave them on when eating or drinking.

Airline filtration systems are hosptial operating theatre standard, the risk isn't as high as you might think.

Looking forward to getting back to traveling.

Oh never mind the comment from the epidemiologist from that link. As always, boards knows best.

"Airplane travel leaves those onboard particularly susceptible to getting COVID-19, said epidemiologist David Engelthaler, the head of the infectious disease arm of Arizona’s Translational Genomics Research Institute."

US2 · 15-06-2020 11:15AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Oh never mind the comment from the epidemiologist from that link. As always, boards knows best.

"Airplane travel leaves those onboard particularly susceptible to getting COVID-19, said epidemiologist David Engelthaler, the head of the infectious disease arm of Arizona’s Translational Genomics Research Institute."

If one doesn't feel safe or is at risk then they shouldn't travel? Fairly simple really..

stephenjmcd · 15-06-2020 11:17AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Oh never mind the comment from the epidemiologist from that link. As always, boards knows best.

"Airplane travel leaves those onboard particularly susceptible to getting COVID-19, said epidemiologist David Engelthaler, the head of the infectious disease arm of Arizona’s Translational Genomics Research Institute."

I suggest you read up on HEPA filtration for a balanced discussion before you move to full on panic and fear as per usual. Its not boards saying the filtration systems are hospital standard, its a fact.

In an office building, air is exchanged about four times every hour. On a modern jet aircraft, that rises to 20 to 30 times. HEPA filters remove 99.97% of contaminants.

Your suggesting I read an article referencing early days of the virus when we know alot more now.
Can you also provide any proof of multiple clusters linking back to aircraft ??

ACitizenErased · 15-06-2020 11:23AM

I don’t recall seeing news of outbreaks on airplanes.....

Strazdas · 15-06-2020 11:28AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I don’t recall seeing news of outbreaks on airplanes.....

Indeed : there seemed to be virtually no reports of cabin crew contracting the virus in early to mid March, when there were tens of thousands of flights.

Underground trains and trains might be a different story though, given that it is just a regular confined space and with no air being artificially circulated.

political analyst · 15-06-2020 11:30AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/government-considers-making-face-masks-a-condition-of-travel-on-public-transport-1.4277393

The Government is exploring the possibility of making face masks compulsory on public transport.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said on Friday that work is being done to see if wearing masks can be “a condition of travel on public transport”.

He said that achieving that was not entirely straightforward as there were public transport bylaws, health laws and other considerations.

He said there were pluses and minuses to making the wearing of masks mandatory. He said they were not suitable for children under 13, or those with breathing difficulties, or for some with disabilities.

Earlier on Newstalk Breakfast, Dr Holohan had warned that people should not become complacent while wearing face masks.

“One of things we do have concern about is that if people feel if they wear a mask, it’s a little bit like a hurling helmet – are you going to put yourself in more danger when you have a helmet on because you feel a little bit more invincible.”

He said it was important people did not think like that. Face masks were an added measure on top of other measures that were important such as hand hygiene and physical distancing.

A face-covering - whether it's a basic surgical mask or a home-made mask - offers no protection to a passenger who doesn't have the virus but is sitting near someone who is an asymptomatic carrier of the virus and thus a comparison between a mask and a helmet doesn't make sense.

political analyst · 15-06-2020 11:35AM

Would putting aerosolised anti-bacterial air freshener in the air conditioning systems of buses and trains work?

15-06-2020 11:36AM

Strazdas wrote: »

Indeed : there seemed to be virtually no reports of cabin crew contracting the virus in early to mid March, when there were tens of thousands of flights.

Underground trains and trains might be a different story though, given that it is just a regular confined space and with no air being artificially circulated.

Trains, at least short journey commuter ones here wouldn't have a person going round serving food and the drivers wouldn't have contact with the passengers. Some like the M3 parkway don't even have staff in the station.

There was this case of a ticket officer in the u.k. that made the headlines however
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/12/uk-rail-worker-dies-coronavirus-spat-belly-mujinga

hmmm · 15-06-2020 11:40AM

political analyst wrote: »

A face-covering - whether it's a basic surgical mask or a home-made mask - offers no protection to a passenger who doesn't have the virus but is sitting near someone who is an asymptomatic carrier of the virus and thus a comparison between a mask and a helmet doesn't make sense.

His point is that if you are wearing a helmet when playing sports, you are more likely to take risks as your head is protected. Similarly when wearing a mask, he doesn't want you to think that you are now immune from getting or giving the virus and take risks you wouldn't otherwise (e.g. not social distancing).

hmmm · 15-06-2020 11:42AM

political analyst wrote: »

Would putting aerosolised anti-bacterial air freshener in the air conditioning systems of buses and trains work?

Probably make things worse if anything, with irritation to respiratory systems, extra sneezing etc.

Reminds me of the discussions in the US currently as to whether tear gas helps spread Covid
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-09/Can-tear-gas-and-pepper-spray-increase-virus-spread--Rbtkmn8aOc/index.html

On public transport we need to open windows and ventilate. I don't care if you're cold, wearing an extra jumper is less hassle than being in ICU with airborne pneumonia.

pc7 · 15-06-2020 11:46AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I don’t recall seeing news of outbreaks on airplanes.....

That was just snakes

caveat emptor · 15-06-2020 11:47AM

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/government-considers-making-face-masks-a-condition-of-travel-on-public-transport-1.4277393

A face-covering - whether it's a basic surgical mask or a home-made mask - offers no protection to a passenger who doesn't have the virus but is sitting near someone who is an asymptomatic carrier of the virus and thus a comparison between a mask and a helmet doesn't make sense.

Yeah but never mind public transport. Look at the official guidelines for healthcare workers.

Surgical masks are recommended for situations where in "high contact situation where increased for transfer of pathogens to the hands and clothing"

FFP2 respirator only in situations where aerosol generation could occur. like if someone coughs?

Doesn't seem right but again what do I know.

stephenjmcd · 15-06-2020 11:48AM

Useful for anyone going on their travels this summer

https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1272491735256530944?s=19

JoChervil · 15-06-2020 11:49AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Oh never mind the comment from the epidemiologist from that link. As always, boards knows best.

"Airplane travel leaves those onboard particularly susceptible to getting COVID-19, said epidemiologist David Engelthaler, the head of the infectious disease arm of Arizona’s Translational Genomics Research Institute."

Well, I wouldn't fly on any domestic flights in US in this time. I flew once from New York to Atlanta and couldn't believe what a rubbish plane it was.

Modern planes have really good filters as well as filtering is divided into sections, so it is pretty safe to travel on them.

Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

Comments