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Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

  • 14-06-2020 7:52am
    #1
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭


    Cops called because a guy was asleep in his car in the queue for a drive through.
    Failed field sobriety test.
    Tussled with cops.
    Shot and killed.
    Looks on the outset like another use of excessive Force by police, but there is so much more wrong with it.

    One cop has been fired and the other is Put on leave.

    Firing somebody that immediately and without due process is probably in a bid to quell the protests - (but it hasn’t) But it can’t be right, surely these matters need investigation, statements and the a just decision, which may well be dismissal / charges filed etc.

    There is a big risk of the authorities in the USA actually losing their own police force if they don’t maintain the law and order and due process that everyone deserves. Has the cop in this instance actually violated the procedures That are given to him for arresting people? If a cop needs to be fired then fine, fire hundreds of them but only after due process.

    RIP the victim, On his daughters birthday apparently.


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Comments

  • #2
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,780 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    That country is just tearing itself apart, a civil war wouldn't surprise me


  • #3
    Bullocks
    Registered Users Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    Did he also steal one of their teasers and try to use it on the cop?
    Chief of police has stood down over it aswell I think


  • #4
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    That country is just tearing itself apart, a civil war wouldn't surprise me

    between who and who?


  • #5
    Mattdhg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Mattdhg


    https://youtu.be/DOiKgmCJwls

    To be fair, it does look like the police were being reasonable enough until he started to struggle with the arrest. I guess the racism itself might come into play there as we've all been in situations where there was a nod and a wink and you're told to be on your way carefully. They could have handled the arrest a bit smoother all the same, like talking more about it before going to handcuff him.

    For anyone who doesn't want to watch the body cam footage, he says he was at his daughters birthday and his girlfriend dropped him back to the parking lot to drive himself home. He says he fell asleep in the car because he wasn't feeling well, and claims to have only drank 1.5 margaritas. He said he could just walk to his sisters house and to forget about the charge etc, but after a breathalyser they go to arrest him...


  • #6
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Do you think in any other western democracy this situation would have the same outcome?


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  • #7
    Ardent
    Registered Users Posts: 5,275 ✭✭✭Ardent


    Can't believe that cop has been immediately fired. It's really sad that a man has lost his life so unnecessarily, but the moment Brooks turns to taze the police it's a cut and dried affair for me.

    People forget or don't appreciate the life and death, split-second decision situations these officers are facing every day. In many cases they are dealing with deranged or mentally ill people, every encounter could be their last. Many have died in the line of duty. I am not for one second apologising for police brutality, or the use of excessive force or guns, but simply feel that folks need to consider both sides of the story.


  • #8
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Do you think in any other western democracy this situation would have the same outcome?

    I'd probably have shot him too.
    Should I just wait for him to fire the taser at me, incapacitate me then take the gun?


  • #9
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,468 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Do you think in any other western democracy this situation would have the same outcome?

    He would probably have been shot here in NZ too if he managed to steal a taser and point it at officers. Of course there would be a proper stand down and investigation here had that occurred, rather than a knee jerk firing.


  • #10
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Rodin wrote: »
    I'd probably have shot him too.
    Should I just wait for him to fire the taser at me, incapacitate me then take the gun?

    I doubt in most other countries it would get to that point

    Even then, why not deescalate? Back off, call in back up, convince him to put it down from a safe distance? I hope to god you never apply to join the Guards if you can't think beyond shoot first


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Cops called because a guy was asleep in his car in the queue for a drive through.
    Failed field sobriety test.
    Tussled with cops.
    Shot and killed.
    .......

    You left out a very important part between tussled and shot.

    Tussled with cops
    Took taser off one cop
    Got free and ran across parking lot
    Turned and shot taser at cop
    Shot and killed

    The ability of the 2 cops to restrain the man leave a lot to be desired but it’s not a clear cut “shot for no reason” either.


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  • #12
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Bullocks wrote: »
    Did he also steal one of their teasers and try to use it on the cop?
    Chief of police has stood down over it aswell I think

    Yea he took the taser apparently.
    I was reading on thing where it was said the cops classify a taser as non lethal, so they can’t say he had a lethal weapon to justify the shooting.

    I think the lack of due process being given to police will become a big problem, The reports of members of the emergency team standing down over the pushing incident is an example. Cops in the US won’t want be be cops if they are going to be thrown under a bus to appease mobs.

    They may well deserve to be fired, but they deserve a process to derive that outcome not a reaction.


  • #13
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    You left out a very important part between tussled and shot.

    Tussled with cops
    Took taser off one cop
    Got free and ran across parking lot
    Turned and shot taser at cop
    Shot and killed

    The ability of the 2 cops to restrain the man leave a lot to be desired but it’s not a clear cut “shot for no reason” either.




    There is a lot more to it than I mentioned, but yea he seemed to get away from them very easily.


  • #14
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    He would probably have been shot here in NZ too if he managed to steal a taser and point it at officers. Of course there would be a proper stand down and investigation here had that occurred, rather than a knee jerk firing.


    Is that justified? Using lethal force against someone who has a non lethal weapon? Is shooting someone who has a baseball bat allowed?


  • #15
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    The restaurant where this has happened has been burned down as well.

    So all their employees are now out of a job.


  • #16
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    I actually know someone who took a taser from police in Australia when they were assaulting someone on the ground. He wasn't shot, although Australian police are armed, and in fact successfully defended himself at trial.


  • #17
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,788 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Protesters have burned down the Wendy's restaurant where the incident happened and it looks like this is going to escalate into more nationwide protests under the flag of BLM.

    Sorry the man has died but the colour of his skin had nothing to do with it.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • #18
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    How the hell did this escalate into a shooting?

    The man was asking if he could leave the car and walk home! He did the right thing, he parked his car up when he realised he was too drunk to drive... the mind boggles!

    The only reason I can think why this man resisted arrest, is because most black people in America probably have huge fear of the police (especially in light of recent events). We probably don't even realise what it's like to be handcuffed as a black man by white cops... he possibly thought he would be the next victim of a racist attack! (But perhaps I'm making excuses for him?)


  • #19
    baldshin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭baldshin


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    How the hell did this escalate into a shooting?

    The man was asking if he could leave the car and walk home! He did the right thing, he parked his car up when he realised he was too drunk to drive... the mind boggles!

    Because he resisted arrest, stole a taser and shot it at a cop.

    You can't just go home if found drunk and asleep in a car. You do that here and get caught, you get arrested.


  • #20
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    If kids are taught from a young age that cops are going to kill them, is it any wonder they resist arrest, even for a minor charge like DUI.


  • #21
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    riffmongous wrote: »
    I doubt in most other countries it would get to that point

    Even then, why not deescalate? Back off, call in back up, convince him to put it down from a safe distance? I hope to god you never apply to join the Guards if you can't think beyond shoot first

    The unarmed police force?
    Who I believe wouldn't have a taser to steal ?


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  • #22
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Is that justified? Using lethal force against someone who has a non lethal weapon? Is shooting someone who has a baseball bat allowed?

    Yep.
    Do you want a crack in the skull from a baseball bat?


  • #23
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    Ardent wrote: »
    Can't believe that cop has been immediately fired. It's really sad that a man has lost his life so unnecessarily, but the moment Brooks turns to taze the police it's a cut and dried affair for me.

    People forget or don't appreciate the life and death, split-second decision situations these officers are facing every day. In many cases they are dealing with deranged or mentally ill people, every encounter could be their last. Many have died in the line of duty. I am not for one second apologising for police brutality, or the use of excessive force or guns, but simply feel that folks need to consider both sides of the story.
    Rodin wrote: »
    I'd probably have shot him too.
    Should I just wait for him to fire the taser at me, incapacitate me then take the gun?
    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    You left out a very important part between tussled and shot.

    Tussled with cops
    Took taser off one cop
    Got free and ran across parking lot
    Turned and shot taser at cop
    Shot and killed

    The ability of the 2 cops to restrain the man leave a lot to be desired but it’s not a clear cut “shot for no reason” either.


    “You can’t have it both ways in law enforcement,” Stewart (Attorney for the dead mans family) said. “You can’t say a Taser is a non-lethal weapon ... but when an African American grabs it and runs with it, now its some kind of deadly, lethal weapon that calls for you to unload on somebody.”


  • #24
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    Protesters have burned down the Wendy's restaurant where the incident happened and it looks like this is going to escalate into more nationwide protests under the flag of BLM.

    Sorry the man has died but the colour of his skin had nothing to do with it.

    Why do you say that?
    Is it an excessive use of force?


  • #25
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Deja Boo wrote: »
    In the states, if you're behind a wheel (even if you're not driving) and it's proven you are impaired, you are a DUI violation - you can't simply choose to walk home to avoid arrest.

    Maybe they need to put down the Judge Dredd comics then


  • #26
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Rodin wrote: »
    The unarmed police force?
    Who I believe wouldn't have a taser to steal ?

    It's the mindset that's the problem


  • #27
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Rodin wrote: »
    Yep.
    Do you want a crack in the skull from a baseball bat?

    Is a clenched fist a justifiable reason to shoot someone?


  • #28
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    In no way should this case be lumped in with the George Floyd one.

    Im sure if the victim here was white he'd similarly have been shot.


  • #29
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    riffmongous wrote: »
    It's the mindset that's the problem

    The mindset that Im just going to stand there and let a guy tase me?


  • #30
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Is a clenched fist a justifiable reason to shoot someone?

    If that's all there is and I haven't been punched then no.
    But a taser is a completely different animal as is a baseball bat


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  • #31
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Rodin wrote: »
    The mindset that Im just going to stand there and let a guy tase me?

    The mindset that this is the only way you can view the situation, that you can't even seem to acknowledge that it should have never get to that point in the first place


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