Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Ginger n Lemon · 11-06-2020 06:52PM

road_high wrote: »

Debenhams stores (I quite liked shopping there for bits and bobs) will leave a huge void in city and towns.
Take the Henry St branch- absolutely massive store, one of the biggest in Dublin over 5 floors. Who in the name of god will take that over? One in Tallaght which was fairly crap would be ideal for Penney’s if dunnes don’t keep blocking them. The rent was probably colossal. In the times we are in who in their right minds is going to take these over? I can’t even think of one tenant that would fit. After three months plus of forced government closures investors are going to be extremely reticent to invest in physical retail space- what if it’s decided on another hysterical whim to repeat this exercise? I think the fallout is just about only coming to the fore now from the lockdown. A hugely damaging episode

My first business suit was purchased in Debenhams all those years ago. Newbridge store in White Water shopping centre is class, also 2 floors atleast 3 actually I think they definitely had basement floor space too.

Huge, huge loss

Goldengirl · 11-06-2020 06:53PM

growleaves wrote: »

Deaths were nowhere near projections (running from 100,000s to millions) in un-locked-down countries like Sweden and Japan. Sweden's policy has left them worse off than neighbouring countries and a little better than some other EU countries for deaths. The comparison is a pretty thin vindication for lockdown, if that.

You must not have even been reading my posts if you think this. I've been posting about multiple side-effects of the lockdown - not merely economic - and making many different points about the wrongness of lockdown - legal, social, ethical, political, personal.

The point is that countries like Taiwan, Singapore, Japan etc. used their experience of phenomena such as SARS to shape containment measures that were effective and avoided harm. We can now do the same in the future, jettisoning lockdown (presumably declaring it a success, then quietly dropping it to save face) and coming up with a policy without cruelly adverse side-effects.

While not implementing lockdown as we did all of the countries you mention had restrictions of one type or another , some of which would be difficult to accept , in Ireland.

Japan was the most relaxed, while shutting its borders , and did not test or even treat all its citizens who were ill , so there is a question whether their numbers are accurate and if indeed they chose economy over the elderly and frail .
While initially doing well with "the three Cs" , requesting people avoid Crowded, Closed places or Close contact, they then had to close schools and request people work from home or close businesses from mid March to mid May due to rising numbers and deaths. This was requested only as Japanese do not like mandated government rules after extensive martial law during and after the second world war and its severe restrictions . Again the people followed this request generally . People normally keep their distance, do not touch socially and do not speak loudly or shout in normal life ( karaoke pubs excepting !)
They have pumped large amounts $ 290 billion in fact into the economy to support the economy which like most countries is facing recession.

Taiwan and Singapore have done excellently , because as you say they were prepared since SARS in 2003 , and had epidemic legislation and testing already set up for the last 17 years. They also shut their borders very fast , Taiwan to China before the Chinese even admitted they had an issue and are still quarantining and testing travellers now . Their tracing using data on phones and apps may not be palatable to Western countries , and they have legislation in place to allow them to do that in time of pandemic . They published information about who was infected and where they lived , from the start !
That is what we somehow need to take from this as well as having testing ready . I don't know if I agree with publishing data .

Sweden may have initially been doing ok but with rising deaths now since the middle of March and case numbers increasing they are finding it harder to get control. It is too early to tell how well or not they have done . They have much lower testing rates than any of their neighbours and about a third of Ireland's testing . This makes case comparisons difficult . Businesses are reporting difficulties as people are not going out except where necessary , despite many staying open, paying staff and overheads

All the graphs in Western European countries show a flattening and subsequent reduction in cases following lockdown where implemented, except UK .
The other factors you mention will only be able to be assessed later in time
Multiple impacts in all countries lockdown or not, as far as is known so far , due to the Pandemic .

road_high · 11-06-2020 06:55PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I think a lot of people forget that a large portion of the IT and finance industries work to support the retail and hospitality industries, and because of this they are not as air tight as you would think.

As my own MD said (IT industry) if our clients go down, we’ll go with them.

This is true. Even the industry I work, chemical industry, would be seen as very robust and “essential” but if our customers go under or can’t pay then we suffer hugely too. We’ve already had all pay rises frozen for this year even though sales aren’t effected but the global uncertainty is making all CEOs prudent and not adding risk or massive expense. All this feeds through negatively to the wider economy

road_high · 11-06-2020 07:00PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

My first business suit was purchased in Debenhams all those years ago. Newbridge store in White Water shopping centre is class, also 2 floors atleast 3 actually I think they definitely had basement floor space too.

Huge, huge loss

Lovely store and staff in WW I was only in it before the lockdown (bought Easter eggs for kids!!). It closed a day or two after then they went bust. Likewise who in the name of god will take that? Was the anchor store there.
Then you have Minister heather humphreys telling us “how to shop and don’t be browsing...” are these people from another planet? We’ve had a retail implosion ffs

Benimar · 11-06-2020 07:01PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

My first business suit was purchased in Debenhams all those years ago. Newbridge store in White Water shopping centre is class, also 2 floors atleast 3 actually I think they definitely had basement floor space too.

Huge, huge loss

I thought you were 22??

Ginger n Lemon · 11-06-2020 07:03PM

Benimar wrote: »

I thought you were 22??

I age quickly or 22 was a typo and shouldve been 32.

Typos are a bit*h

:pac:

road_high · 11-06-2020 07:03PM

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

It’s not going to be made mandatory, the science behind it is inconclusive and theirs 8 new cases today. And that’s before we get into the observation about half the bell ends wearing them doing exactly what their being told not to do in their operation. Culturally societally also it’s not something will happen here.

I think the main reason is that our incompetent Public service cannot and will not get its arse in gear to post out masks to every household- this would be essential if they were to be made mandatory to be honest. They’d need another two months to get it done. At least. That’s why they’re not mandatory

Cork Boy 53 · 11-06-2020 07:07PM

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Having listened to Tomas Ryan on Eamon Dunphy's podcast I really can't understand why people in this thread are so against him. He's against lockdowns. What he wants is a vigorous test, trace and isolate system put in place to eliminate corona virus from Ireland. I don't see how/why anyone would be against that.

Because a lot of people are never happy unless they have something to whinge about plain and simple.

Goldengirl · 11-06-2020 07:21PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Because a lot of people are never happy unless they have something to whinge about plain and simple.

I think he suffers from " guilty by association ," with Gerry Killeen .

I like his accent too !

Penfailed · 11-06-2020 07:38PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Even covid monitor on building sites is a rubbish idea, basically a guy standing there watching other 2 guys making sure they arent within 2 metres of each other.

Except that's not what is happening. One of the two guys working could be the 'covid monitor'. It's not a stand alone role. The site foreman could be the Covid monitor or the H&S supervisor.

crossman47 · 11-06-2020 07:43PM

road_high wrote: »

I think the main reason is that our incompetent Public service cannot and will not get its arse in gear

That's the public service that has adapted in all sorts of ways and coped very well with the pandemic and its effects?

castletownman · 11-06-2020 07:55PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Except that's not what is happening. One of the two guys working could be the 'covid monitor'. It's not a stand alone role. The site foreman could be the Covid monitor or the H&S supervisor.

I have been nominated as the Covid officer in my workplace. Not a building site now, but a small museum with no more than two staff ever on at one time. And we would never have a surprise group visit as they would generally ring ahead to book.

Anyway, I was sent an 18-page document with guidelines pretty much exactly like the health and safety statements that businesses must display.

I'll obviously make sure we adhere to the guidelines but it comes across as too extreme to me. One-way systems, zones for tour guides to stand in, covid signs displayed and no shaking hands (I don't tend to shake hands with visitors anyway). Like one of the main maxims of a museum is that your not meant to touch anything anyway. The odds of an inspection are pretty much zero.

You just know that there will be "experts" making money with covid courses for businesses. Providing absolutely no information that you wouldn't already know anyway. Like those damn annual workplace manual handling and H&S courses.

Ginger n Lemon · 11-06-2020 07:56PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Except that's not what is happening. One of the two guys working could be the 'covid monitor'. It's not a stand alone role. The site foreman could be the Covid monitor or the H&S supervisor.

Doesnt change the fact that 99% of the time the people who "covid monitor" is observing are healthy.

Kinda feels like another internal audit role, requiring you to rat on your co workers.

As you can probably guess now, I dont like internal audit, I dont like co workers who rat you out and i dont like turtle plan for lifting restrictions, 3/4 days this week new cases in single digits open up the damn country.

Also post above this underlines why whole covid monitor idea is a non runner. Its just a lot of waffle like the "guidelines" govt is printing using that 200k printer they had to adjust their building for. or was it 500 k cant remember, huge waste of taxpayers money what it was.

Penfailed · 11-06-2020 08:00PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Kinda feels like another internal audit role, requiring you to rat on your co workers.

It's not the first time you've displayed your ignorance of the construction industry in this thread. It's not an internal audit role and doesn't require anyone 'ratting' on anyone else.

Tenzor07 · 11-06-2020 08:02PM

castletownman wrote: »

I have been nominated as the Covid officer in my workplace. Not a building site now, but a small museum with no more than two staff ever on at one time. And we would never have a surprise group visit as they would generally ring ahead to book.
Anyway, I was sent an 18-page document with guidelines pretty much exactly like the health and safety statements that businesses must display.
I'll obviously make sure we adhere to the guidelines but it comes across as too extreme to me. One-way systems, zones for tour guides to stand in, covid signs displayed and no shaking hands (I don't tend to shake hands with visitors anyway). Like one of the main maxims of a museum is that your not meant to touch anything anyway. The odds of an inspection are pretty much zero.
You just know that there will be "experts" making money with covid courses for businesses. Providing absolutely no information that you wouldn't already know anyway. Like those damn annual workplace manual handling and H&S courses.

With time limits on visitors coming to the museum, limits on numbers, no coach bus/school tours, no lingering at the exhibits is it really worth opening at all?

Benimar · 11-06-2020 08:07PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Doesnt change the fact that 99% of the time the people who "covid monitor" is observing are healthy.

Kinda feels like another internal audit role, requiring you to rat on your co workers.

As you can probably guess now, I dont like internal audit, I dont like co workers who rat you out and i dont like turtle plan for lifting restrictions, 3/4 days this week new cases in single digits open up the damn country.

Also post above this underlines why whole covid monitor idea is a non runner. Its just a lot of waffle like the "guidelines" govt is printing using that 200k printer they had to adjust their building for. or was it 500 k cant remember, huge waste of taxpayers money what it was.

You don’t like rules and regulation? I’d never have guessed!

Tenzor07 · 11-06-2020 08:08PM

Barbers/Hairdressers hoping to open on the 29th.

Appointment only, temperature checks, masks, hand sanitisers, less chains I would say as the 2m distance must be maintained, the barber will probably wear a mask and a face visor also.... :rolleyes:

gral6 · 11-06-2020 08:12PM

8 new cases today. For sure, we are not there yet and the second wave is on the way now ! Let's make mandatory quarantine after arrival to Dublin airport for 4 weeks from now! Tony ''we are not there yet but we are looking into it'' will keep an eye on everyone coming!

Cork Boy 53 · 11-06-2020 08:13PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Doesnt change the fact that 99% of the time the people who "covid monitor" is observing are healthy.

Kinda feels like another internal audit role, requiring you to rat on your co workers.

As you can probably guess now, I dont like internal audit, I dont like co workers who rat you out and i dont like turtle plan for lifting restrictions, 3/4 days this week new cases in single digits open up the damn country.

Also post above this underlines why whole covid monitor idea is a non runner. Its just a lot of waffle like the "guidelines" govt is printing using that 200k printer they had to adjust their building for. or was it 500 k cant remember, huge waste of taxpayers money what it was.

Why did you sign this petition then bud?

https://crushthecurve.ie/

For the craic was it?

Cork Boy 53 · 11-06-2020 08:20PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Barbers/Hairdressers hoping to open on the 29th.

Appointment only, temperature checks, masks, hand sanitisers, less chains I would say as the 2m distance must be maintained, the barber will probably wear a mask and a face visor also.... :rolleyes:

I realize you are being sarcastic but with the possible exception of the face visor all of that is exactly what will be required under the regulations.

snowcat · 11-06-2020 08:22PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Why did you sign this petition then?

https://crushthecurve.ie/

For the craic was it?

We have crushed the curve in numerous counties in Ireland. The only ones showing cases at the moment are Dublin and Cork and a few outlying counties in ireland. Considering we share a border with the UK and we are part of the EU. How would you like to micromanage this crushing of the curve? Ban all travel from Dublin/Cork to the other unaffected counties. On a larger scale ban all travel with our most important economic partner? After that ban all travel with our important EU partners. As our government keep telling us we are in this together and be it a county by county approach or country by country in the EU we need to stay together.

Cork Boy 53 · 11-06-2020 08:29PM

snowcat wrote: »

We have crushed the curve in numerous counties in Ireland. The only ones showing cases at the moment are Dublin and Cork and a few outlying counties in ireland. Considering we share a border with the UK and we are part of the EU. How would you like to micromanage this crushing of the curve? Ban all travel from Dublin/Cork to the other unaffected counties. On a larger scale ban all travel with our most important economic partner? After that ban all travel with our important EU partners. As our government keep telling us we are in this together and be it a county by county approach or country by country in the EU we need to stay together.

When the virus outbreak first started surging many people were calling for exactly that to happen. For the time being it`s academic but if and when a second wave happens in the autumn with the same pattern the possibility may have to be revisited.

Goldengirl · 11-06-2020 08:31PM

crossman47 wrote: »

That's the public service that has adapted in all sorts of ways and coped very well with the pandemic and its effects?

I would live to know what some of these posters do in real life.
A good proportion sitting on their...keyboards , ...bashing public servants and others who have worked through this pandemic , and have had to adapt to all sorts of difficult work practices .

snowcat · 11-06-2020 08:31PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

When the virus outbreak first started surging many people were calling exactly for that to happen. For the time being it`s academic but if and when a second wave happens in the autumn with the same pattern the possibility may have to be revisited.

Why is it academic? Close down Cork Dublin/Kildare and the rest of the country is effectively virus free,

Goldengirl · 11-06-2020 08:35PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Why did you sign this petition then bud?

https://crushthecurve.ie/

For the craic was it?

Ah leave him alone , he's only 12..eh typo... 32 !

11-06-2020 08:36PM

snowcat wrote: »

Why is it academic? Close down Cork Dublin/Kildare and the rest of the country is effectively virus free,

Its also not getting a lot of materials, medicines, food stuuffs that can't be grown and supplied locally etc. Locking down a county means nothing out as well as in.

snowcat · 11-06-2020 08:37PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Its also not getting a lot of materials, medicines, food stuuffs that can't be grown and supplied locally etc. Locking down a county means nothing out as well as in.

You could say the same about countries etc

Cork Boy 53 · 11-06-2020 08:37PM

snowcat wrote: »

Why is it academic? Close down Cork Dublin/Kildare and the rest of the country is effectively virus free,

If there is a second wave surge with a high number of cases in the autumn in Dublin, Cork or wherever else that may have to be implemented.

Goldengirl · 11-06-2020 08:40PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

If there is a second wave surge with a high number of cases in the autumn in Dublin, Cork or wherever else that may have to be implemented.

What about people commuting to work from other counties?

snowcat · 11-06-2020 08:42PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

If there is a second wave surge with a high number of cases in the autumn in Dublin, Cork or wherever else that may have to be implemented.

Should have been implented from day one. Not this stupid 2km restriction. Dublin should have been locked down and to a lesser extent Cork. The rst of the country never had a serious issue

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings