Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Ginger n Lemon · 11-06-2020 04:36PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Jesus. How to make a point that is besides the point. Nowhere has anyone said that, had we not locked down, that the economic damage would be less than if we had locked down. Either way though, OUR ECONOMY IS GOING TO SUFFER. That's irrespective of lockdown.

I like how you are imitating my typing now with caps and all

On a more serious note - yes, economies will suffer, but why not point out that we needlessly lose 5% - 8 % GDP more than most other EU countries like Czech republic, Denmark, Austria etc?

Are they smarter over there? Or is covid weaker there?

Goldengirl · 11-06-2020 04:40PM

growleaves wrote: »

Yes I am. 'Lockdown' is just piece of terminology. We could have called it 'the Embargo'.

Sweden's economy is in crisis because a fifth to a quarter of the world locked down trade for 2+ months.

Very simplistic . Businesses stayed open with footfall and trade had fallen to a fraction of what they were before.
Many business owners in Sweden still had to pay staff themselves and endeavour to try to stay open through this while customers just stayed away .

Penfailed · 11-06-2020 04:41PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I like how you are imitating my typing now with caps and all

On a more serious note - yes, economies will suffer, but why not point out that we needlessly lose 5% - 8 % GDP more than most other EU countries like Czech republic, Denmark, Austria etc?

Are they smarter over there? Or is covid weaker there?

Well spotted. My post was a pastiche of yours. I thought it would make it easier for you to comprehend it.

Why would I point something out when it's not the point that I was making...? Your point is valid. It's just a different point to the one I was making.

Flickerfusion · 11-06-2020 04:44PM

At this stage, I would suspect this has had more to do with the way the virus spread than anything else.

If you consider Ireland, the UK, Spain and to a degree France and the Eastern US do huge amounts of travel between and amongst each other.
In a typical year, 1.9 million of the 4.8 million people in the Republic of Ireland will have visited Spain.

In normal times the Dublin to London (all airports) route is one of the busiest international flight corridors in the world and we've umpteen ways people move to and from the US east coast. Irish (and British) people also just travel a hell of a lot.
Even Cork, our second city and quite small by international hub standards, is extremely well connected by air in comparison to any Cork-scale city I've lived in on the continent.

When the crisis broke, we'd large numbers of people on holidays in Italian ski resorts for example.

The virus would appear to have travelled with people and hit nexuses like London, Paris, NY very hard and we are very much part of that network and you can see that reflected in how hard Dublin was hit for a while.

To me it's looking like we just got hammered as part of the same network of countries and cities that we're part of. Other places have totally different travel patterns for all sorts of reasons from proximity, cultural tendency to travel for historical reasons, climate, disposable income and access to foreign holidays etc etc.

Sure mistakes were made everywhere, but at the same time I think this notion that it all rested on planning and strategy is also nonsense. A lot of it would appear to have been straight down to transmission in the weeks before European and North American regions began to agree they needed to lock down for a while.

It's easy to say it was an easy decision in hindsight but at the time it was utterly unthinkable that we'd inflict vast self-harm economically and so on.

skelly22 · 11-06-2020 04:45PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

OK. That may well happen. Of course even with such a campaign there will still be numptys who refuse to wear them because they don`t like to follow rules.

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Who is "we"? Many people (the sensible ones anyway) have been wearing them for months.

Maybe the fact that there's been such a dog's dinner made out of explaining their effectiveness would explain why the majority of people don't wear them & have no intention of doing so if they can avoid it. Yet to see one convincing piece of information on this that hasn't been contradicted. I don't intend to wear one, not because I'm a stupid numpty who doesn' t like following rules.

Goldengirl · 11-06-2020 05:08PM

skelly22 wrote: »

Maybe the fact that there's been such a dog's dinner made out of explaining their effectiveness would explain why the majority of people don't wear them & have no intention of doing so if they can avoid it. Yet to see one convincing piece of information on this that hasn't been contradicted. I don't intend to wear one, not because I'm a stupid numpty who doesn' t like following rules.

Yes , they have fxxxed it up big time . Should have just pushed it down the road without saying so much on it .

Problem is it will become increasingly obvious as we are lifting restrictions that unless mask wearing becomes widespread , lifting restrictions like the 2m distance , or in pubs restaurants or on shopping in enclosed centres , will be difficult if not impossible , especially for staff working there.

Tenzor07 · 11-06-2020 05:29PM

If people were told to wear a mask, and the wearing of such would allow the HSE to advise Govt. to reduce physical distancing to 1m then I think most people would be more compliant...

However at this stage, 2 metre distance, restrictions on numbers entering retail stores, hand sanitising, gloves, masks... these are all measures that more would have been onboard with at the start...

Penfailed · 11-06-2020 05:44PM

skelly22 wrote: »

Maybe the fact that there's been such a dog's dinner made out of explaining their effectiveness would explain why the majority of people don't wear them & have no intention of doing so if they can avoid it. Yet to see one convincing piece of information on this that hasn't been contradicted. I don't intend to wear one, not because I'm a stupid numpty who doesn' t like following rules.

That's pretty much my thoughts too. I have been face fit tested (and am qualified to carry out same) for FFP3 masks and could get my hands on one if required. Given that, in the initial stages when masks may have been of more benefit, I was working from home and didn't make any unnecessary journeys and apart from my family, didn't come into contact with anyone, I didn't need to wear one. Now that the cases of Covid-19 are so low, I don't see the need to wear one now. I don't use public transport and work outdoors and have a face covering (snood) if I'm required to work within 2m of someone (very rare).

growleaves · 11-06-2020 05:47PM

Lockdown was unnecessary, claims German virologist

growleaves · 11-06-2020 05:49PM

UK orchestras may not survive coronavirus pandemic, conductors warn

“We MUST find a way to play together soon, even without an audience, if we are to maintain anything like our normal standards, and we badly need clarity from government, a timeline, of when that might be and how it can be implemented. We understand that we cannot expect to revert to everything as it was before; we will be creative and tireless in making contingency plans and solving problems.”

Ginger n Lemon · 11-06-2020 05:50PM

growleaves wrote: »

Lockdown was unnecessary, claims German virologist

I feel like this will be the theme for the next 6 months, with Neil Ferguson getting his modelling studies going saying "deaths are same in 2020 because of lockdowns"

“We are seeing a lot of asymptomatic cases, that is infections with no consequences. This means we can assess the danger from the virus better. I still don't believe that at the end of the year we will have had more deaths in Germany than in other years.”

KrustyUCC · 11-06-2020 06:02PM

8 cases today

Another positive day and a day closer to the next phase of relaxing restrictions

Hurrache · 11-06-2020 06:04PM

And yet Sweden's top virologist has said that he's not convinced their approach was the correct one either. (did I do the random bolding correctly?)

Ginger n Lemon · 11-06-2020 06:07PM

Hurrache wrote: »

And yet Sweden's top virologist has said that he's not convinced their approach was the correct one either. (did I do the random bolding correctly?)

You did it well.

I am starting some sort of a cult of imitators in this thread, first people use CAPS now they bold text, maverick

On a more serious note, German virologist > Swedish virologist.

Also, 8 new cases today, I mean come on. Come on open the damn country. 2.5 more weeks to get a meal in a restaurant, we must be barking mad with our turtle lockdown plan.

GeorgeBailey · 11-06-2020 06:09PM

Having listened to Tomas Ryan on Eamon Dunphy's podcast I really can't understand why people in this thread are so against him. He's against lockdowns. What he wants is a vigorous test, trace and isolate system put in place to eliminate corona virus from Ireland. I don't see how/why anyone would be against that.

11-06-2020 06:09PM

Over 50% reduction in cases today

_Kaiser_ · 11-06-2020 06:10PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

8 cases today

Another positive day and a day closer to the next phase of relaxing restrictions

At 8/8 and the consistently extremely low numbers lately, we should be fully reopening next week or week after latest.

Ginger n Lemon · 11-06-2020 06:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Over 50% reduction in cases today

I see what you did, bravo

silverharp · 11-06-2020 06:12PM

growleaves wrote: »

UK orchestras may not survive coronavirus pandemic, conductors warn

Its a huge cultural blow, my wife is in one of Irelands top amateur choirs, they certainly wont be able to meet this year

KrustyUCC · 11-06-2020 06:19PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

At 8/8 and the consistently extremely low numbers lately, we should be fully reopening next week or week after latest.

Don't think that will happen

Tony is adamant about 3 weeks in between phases but I do think we will have a stage 3+ next time out

risteard7 · 11-06-2020 06:21PM

If I get hit by a bus and the driver has Covid-19 does my death count as Coronavirus??

Poor_old_gill · 11-06-2020 06:24PM

Are mobile phone shops open since the restrictions have been partially lifted?

Ginger n Lemon · 11-06-2020 06:28PM

risteard7 wrote: »

If I get hit by a bus and the driver has Covid-19 does my death count as Coronavirus??

Take a look at this, short answer - in some places it might!

Washington state counts gun shot victims as coronavirus related deaths, state public health officials admit.

This method of counting coronavirus deaths, which could pad the numbers, has incredible implications. It doesn’t just artificially increase the death rate. It is used by Governor Jay Inslee to keep the economy shut down longer than may be necessary.

In a telephone press briefing last week, public health officials with the Washington State Department of Health (DOH) acknowledge their data collection is unusual.

https://mynorthwest.com/1889564/rantz-gun-shot-victims-washington-coronavirus-deaths/?

:pac:

Cork Boy 53 · 11-06-2020 06:29PM

skelly22 wrote: »

Maybe the fact that there's been such a dog's dinner made out of explaining their effectiveness would explain why the majority of people don't wear them & have no intention of doing so if they can avoid it. Yet to see one convincing piece of information on this that hasn't been contradicted. I don't intend to wear one, not because I'm a stupid numpty who doesn' t like following rules.

And what if the wearing of masks is made mandatory in certain situations as is looking increasingly likely going by official statements? Do you still intend not to wear them?

growleaves · 11-06-2020 06:29PM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Are mobile phone shops open since the restrictions have been partially lifted?

Yes.

Cork Boy 53 · 11-06-2020 06:30PM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Are mobile phone shops open since the restrictions have been partially lifted?

Yes since the 18th May.

Clonmel1000 · 11-06-2020 06:32PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

And what if the wearing of masks is made mandatory in certain situations as is looking increasingly likely going by official statements? Do you still intend not to wear them?

It’s not going to be made mandatory, the science behind it is inconclusive and theirs 8 new cases today. And that’s before we get into the observation about half the bell ends wearing them doing exactly what their being told not to do in their operation. Culturally societally also it’s not something will happen here.

Cork Boy 53 · 11-06-2020 06:39PM

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

It’s not going to be made mandatory, the science behind it is inconclusive and theirs 8 new cases today. And that’s before we get into the observation about half the bell ends wearing them doing exactly what their being told not to do in their operation. Culturally societally also it’s not something will happen here.

Well time will tell.

Ginger n Lemon · 11-06-2020 06:43PM

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

It’s not going to be made mandatory, the science behind it is inconclusive and theirs 8 new cases today. And that’s before we get into the observation about half the bell ends wearing them doing exactly what their being told not to do in their operation. Culturally societally also it’s not something will happen here.

Like, even making them mandatory on public transport - Irish rail couldnt hire some lads to walk around carriages checking everyone if they got their mask on. That would be the biggest waste of taxpayers money imaginable.

Even covid monitor on building sites is a rubbish idea, basically a guy standing there watching other 2 guys making sure they arent within 2 metres of each other. Everyone is healthy and 0 clusters at building sites reported. give me a break

road_high · 11-06-2020 06:49PM

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Some of it perhaps, but there are other areas where we could be exposed.

A lot of the pharma, IT and finance sector here will be relatively less impacted compared to consumer-centric businesses like car manufacturing. There are a few at risk e.g. Apple is essentially a consumer products company, albeit it quite high end one.

Some businesses could well see increased demand e.g. companies selling internet and cloud computing infrastructure and software, something we have quite a bit of and demand for pharmaceuticals and biopharmaceuticals isn't going to shrink.

Financial services are also relatively safe as that activity will keep going on.

Where we have bigger risks could be where we've services and food businesses that are selling to UK consumers. There's a pretty sharp recession forecast in Britain and there are complicating factors because of Brexit.

We also generally need to keep an eye on the ball on Brexit here too as that could yet turn into a total mess and there's utter dogma driving it in Britain without much logic or pragmatism.

The other risk is the US going into a deep recession, although I suspect that's somehow less likely, despite the coronavirus impact being very severe there.

We need to do something about the impact of UK companies going into administration and just shuttering Irish branches though. We've already lost Debbenhams Ireland, Monsoon, Accessorize and I doubt they're going to be the only casualties.

What's happening there is even though the Irish branches are entirely viable, the parents falling into administration is resulting in their being unable to supply funds to those subsidiaries to get them through the lockdown.

We should have had some kind of 0% interest loan scheme to buffer that. Instead, it's cost a hell of a lot of retail jobs and that could get worse before it gets better.

There's going to be a total disaster in British retail, regardless of what happens here economically, so I think we should be prepared for a very significant number of job losses across those kinds of stores and perhaps the state could try and work with getting new businesses back in there quickly. We can't hang around with a big retail wipe out going on.

My concern is landlords will rather sit on empty stores than drop rents and that could see a lag before you start getting companies coming in from Ireland or elsewhere in Europe etc to fill those gaps.

I mean who's going to take those huge ex Debenhams stores in Dublin and Cork etc? They can't really just be left sitting there, and as unexciting as they may have been, their loss is a big issue for footfall in shopping districts.

Debenhams stores (I quite liked shopping there for bits and bobs) will leave a huge void in city and towns.
Take the Henry St branch- absolutely massive store, one of the biggest in Dublin over 5 floors. Who in the name of god will take that over? One in Tallaght which was fairly crap would be ideal for Penney’s if dunnes don’t keep blocking them. The rent was probably colossal. In the times we are in who in their right minds is going to take these over? I can’t even think of one tenant that would fit. After three months plus of forced government closures investors are going to be extremely reticent to invest in physical retail space- what if it’s decided on another hysterical whim to repeat this exercise? I think the fallout is just about only coming to the fore now from the lockdown. A hugely damaging episode

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings