Blackface

Hamsterchops · 11-06-2020 11:29AM

When I was growing up the Black & White minstrel show was still on TV, so in one way it's amazing how far we've come, then on the other hand 'Little Britain' is as recent as 2003, with Bo Selecta even more recent, so maybe we (as a society) haven't travelled as far as we thought we had . . .

Slave trader statues being pulled down in a knee jerk reaction is one thing, but I wonder where is society on race issues? Yes everybody, but everybody is outraged at the scenes from US, but will there always be an underlying racism just beneath the skin of some, lurking in the shadows?

Sunny Disposition · 11-06-2020 11:53AM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

When I was growing up the Black & White minstrel show was still on TV, so in one way it's amazing how far we've come, then on the other hand 'Little Britain' is as recent as 2003, with Bo Selecta even more recent, so maybe we (as a society) haven't travelled as far as we thought we had . . .

Slave trader statues being pulled down in a knee jerk reaction is one thing, but I wonder where is society on race issues? Yes everybody, but everybody is outraged at the scenes from US, but will there always be an underlying racism just beneath the skin of some, lurking in the shadows?

Think we have come a very long way, things are way different to what they were like in the UK in the 70s, when black people started to arrive. Don't think racism has ever been as bad in Ireland as what it was there then.

One issue I see emerging is that a large chunk of people are pissed with the virtue signalling of white anti-racist campaigners, people who would seriously claim that a person dressing up as a black celebrity is a racist, who hates or fears black people.

When people come out with this sh1t it has the potential to discredit the whole anti racism project, which still has a way to go.

OU812 · 11-06-2020 11:56AM

I do agree with the removal of slave trader statues, if that was all they did, but it wasn't, it was just part of their lives.

Twelve out of Forty Five US Presidents were slave owners - Are their statues going to be removed also?

Washington & Jefferson owned almost 1,000 slaves between them - Jefferson had over 600 and a huge amount of African American citizens are connected to him through DNA, he was most prolific it seems.

Even Ulysses S. Grant owned one as late as 1859 - realistically, that's two lifetimes ago, not a huge amount of time.

Are those $1, $2 & $50 bills being recalled???

Hamsterchops · 11-06-2020 12:18PM

Are Sambos still allowed in Ireland?

Gregor Samsa · 11-06-2020 12:27PM

OU812 wrote: »

I do agree with the removal of slave trader statues, if that was all they did, but it wasn't, it was just part of their lives.

Twelve out of Forty Five US Presidents were slave owners - Are their statues going to be removed also?

Washington & Jefferson owned almost 1,000 slaves between them - Jefferson had over 600 and a huge amount of African American citizens are connected to him through DNA, he was most prolific it seems.

Even Ulysses S. Grant owned one as late as 1859 - realistically, that's two lifetimes ago, not a huge amount of time.

Are those $1, $2 & $50 bills being recalled???

But this is the whole point. The US needs to come to terms with the fact that slavery and racism lie at it's very foundation. That doesn't mean pulling down every statue. But it also doesn't mean pretending that there isn't a problem with how history is currently represented.

As for the faces on dollar notes, there's already plans from 2016 to replace some of the current ones and add some notable black people:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/04/20/report-lew-considered-anthony-10-bill/83274530/

circadian · 11-06-2020 12:28PM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Are Sambos still allowed in Ireland?

I guess they are. Mind you, my first week living in England I mentioned to my newfound University friends that I was grabbing a sambo for lunch.

There was much confusion, mostly due to my own complexion and connotations of the word.

Sunny Disposition · 11-06-2020 12:40PM

The removal of the statue in Bristol would have been the correct thing to do, had it been done safely by its local authority and not by a mob.

Hamsterchops · 11-06-2020 12:41PM

circadian wrote: »

I guess they are. Mind you, my first week living in England I mentioned to my newfound University friends that I was grabbing a sambo for lunch.

There was much confusion, mostly due to my own complexion and connotations of the word.

I've heard his before, that's what I mentioned it. English people & Americans are always horrified & shocked when they hear it over here

Just like Nigg*r, Sambo is also an old racist word for a black person, hardly ever heard outside of Ireland, yet always used in Ireland as an abbreviation for a Sandwich :cool:

circadian · 11-06-2020 01:01PM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I've heard his before, that's what I mentioned it. English people & Americans are always horrified & shocked when they hear it over here

Just like Nigg*r, Sambo is also an old racist word for a black person, hardly ever heard outside of Ireland, yet always used in Ireland as an abbreviation for a Sandwich :cool:

Well, think of a mixed race nordie tell g a bunch of English lads, some of whom are black, that they're grabbing a quick sambo.

wexandproud · 11-06-2020 01:01PM

kowloon wrote: »

One of the jam brands had them too, and then there's the Gollybar.

ah here , i've curly hair . Im offended now .
actually i used to have curly hair but its getting scarce so don't know if i should be offended or not . i'll check it out with some PC person and i'm sure they'll enlighten me even better if they were offended on my behalf , save me the bother

shaveAbullock · 11-06-2020 01:11PM

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Good news, I've just checked and the league of gentlement is still available on BBC iPlayer.

Better Than Christ wrote: »

It's all about context. Papa Lazarou is a very obvious grotesque caricature of a minstrel and not merely an example of a white actor pretending to be a black character. There's a big difference between that and Matt Lucas or David Walliams dressing up as grotesque caricatures of actual black or Asian people.

Context has nothing to do with it at all.
The league of gentlemen has now been removed from Netflix.

splashthecash · 11-06-2020 01:15PM

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

But this is the whole point. The US needs to come to terms with the fact that slavery and racism lie at it's very foundation. That doesn't mean pulling down every statue. But it also doesn't mean pretending that there isn't a problem with how history is currently represented.

As for the faces on dollar notes, there's already plans from 2016 to replace some of the current ones and add some notable black people:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/04/20/report-lew-considered-anthony-10-bill/83274530/

They need to get the chisels out and update mount rushmore!! don't forget that :pac:

Mister Vain · 11-06-2020 01:50PM

Have they banned Tropic Thunder as well?

shaveAbullock · 11-06-2020 01:53PM

Mister Vain wrote: »

Have they banned Tropic Thunder as well?

If you get nominated for an academy award you get a pass.

El_Duderino 09 · 11-06-2020 01:53PM

Sarcozies wrote: »

Taking offence at something is subjective. You cannot adhere to the grievances of everyone who take offense at art of the past.

We can just change the art to something that represents out values today. Slave trading is not just something we don't value, it's considered abhorrent in today's "PC gone mad" world. So it absolutely fine to take statues down and put up statues to honour people who can inspire us in today's world. That's far more relevant.

Rodney Bathgate · 11-06-2020 01:54PM

shaveAbullock wrote: »

If you get nominated for an academy award you get a pass.

What if you win?

Mister Vain · 11-06-2020 01:56PM

Will there be a black Friday this year?

Rodney Bathgate · 11-06-2020 02:30PM

Mister Vain wrote: »

Will there be a black Friday this year?

Or a white Christmas?

Hamsterchops · 11-06-2020 02:36PM

...or the black country (west midlands/England).

Surprised the name has lasted this long.

shaveAbullock · 11-06-2020 02:40PM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

...or the black country (west midlands/England).

Surprised the name has lasted his long.

Or the people that worked in that part of England

J. Marston · 11-06-2020 03:00PM

PsychoPete wrote: »

I take it lethal weapon 7 is out of the question ?

You'd be right. Netflix have removed the episode but not the show, thankfully.

Ush1 · 11-06-2020 03:25PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Depends. Is there a history of dressing as white people to mock them and is there currently systemic racism against white people in your country? If the answer is 'yes' to those questions, then it should probably be taken down. If the answer is 'no' then that's it.

Systemic racism is a little vague. I know in America statistically Asians are generally the most sucessful in many areas, far and above "whites".

Gradius · 11-06-2020 03:32PM

Trouble, strife, stress, arguments, violence, the time, the effort. All of them unnecessary.

I wonder are Icelanders fretting themselves right now over these "issues"? Or Japan? Or Russia?

How many of the 190+ countries in the world are tearing at themselves over such things? 5? 8?

What is the commonality amongst those few countries?

When you go the the effort of buying a home, why would you invite all those negativities into your life? What was the purpose of buying a home in the first place?

El_Duderino 09 · 11-06-2020 03:56PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Systemic racism is a little vague. I know in America statistically Asians are generally the most sucessful in many areas, far and above "whites".

So what? Why try to conflate that with systemic racism against black people?

Isn't it interesting to watch people pretend not to understand the topic. Your post here is a great example. A poster earlier pretended they don't know if there's racism against black people in america because they don't live there.

If you have to play-act at not understanding to avoid the discussion, then why take part in the discussion at all?

shaveAbullock · 11-06-2020 03:59PM

J. Marston wrote: »

You'd be right. Netflix have removed the episode but not the show, thankfully.

I'm watching it's always sunny season 9 episode 9 on netflix right now....

El_Duderino 09 · 11-06-2020 04:05PM

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The removal of the statue in Bristol would have been the correct thing to do, had it been done safely by its local authority and not by a mob.

You'll be glad to know the councils have started taking down statues and the movement called "topple the racists" have targeted 78 more statues so far to lobby councils to take them down

That's good news, isn't it?

Bobblehats · 11-06-2020 04:20PM

Gradius wrote: »

Trouble, strife, stress, arguments, violence, the time, the effort. All of them unnecessary.

I wonder are Icelanders fretting themselves right now over these "issues"? Or Japan? Or Russia?

How many of the 190+ countries in the world are tearing at themselves over such things? 5? 8?

What is the commonality amongst those few countries?

When you go the the effort of buying a home, why would you invite all those negativities into your life? What was the purpose of buying a home in the first place?

It would take one very naive, twee little outlier to involve itself in such matters

J. Marston · 11-06-2020 04:28PM

shaveAbullock wrote: »

I'm watching it's always sunny season 9 episode 9 on netflix right now....

Is it from that one? They've removed Dee Reynolds: Shaping America's Youth from season 6. That's the Lethal Weapon 5 one.

Sunny Disposition · 11-06-2020 04:35PM

Eamon Ryan explained that there is unacceptable behaviour towards black people in Ireland, and he explained that a young boy had been called a n**ger. It was clear that he was saying this was unacceptable, he was criticising racism and racists, but somehow he was wrong to actually mention the so-called N word.
Well this is horse****. It's an offensive term when applied to a person or group for sure, no doubt. But that's his point. Some people think there are souls too sensitive to even hear such a word in this completely genuine context from a person who rather than being racist is trying to fight racism. Ridiculous. And I don't even like Ryan or his party of cappuccino-drinking, Guardian-reading, insufferable knobs.

Sunny Disposition · 11-06-2020 04:37PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You'll be glad to know the councils have started taking down statues and the movement called "topple the racists" have targeted 78 more statues so far to lobby councils to take them down

That's good news, isn't it?

Absolutely it is. People lobbying Councils is exactly the right way to go about it, people taking the law into their own hands is not.

Blackface

Comments