Blackface

B.A._Baracus · 10-06-2020 12:00PM

topper75 wrote: »

You don it because the character you have chosen to pretend to be has a black face. Simple.

Now you dress up as a black character by donning blackface makeup, and start acting all stupid and foolish as a sendup of a stereotype, that changes things.

See the difference?

The first one is absolutely fine because you are not meaningfully causing offence.

You're full of crap dude. All I'm doing is going around in circles with you as you cherry pick what I say to respond too. After all you quoted me first by saying

topper75 wrote: »

What a cheek you have taking that username.

Pure vile hatred.

You already made your mind up two hours ago by saying cheek and vile hatred. Who starts out with that? Someone who just wants an internet argument to push his or her views. I made the mistake of getting back to you.

Besides after all this talk, all this guff you wouldn't your bollocks dare dawn black face at a party. So this is all hot air. So go do it with someone else

castletownman · 10-06-2020 12:14PM

Years ago me and a few mates dressed up as the Jackson 5 for Halloween. Full blackface and all.

I am glad I am not famous as I am sure some no-mark lowlife would drag the picture up from social media in outrage.

Although, I do think the fact people are starting to get offended at trivial things again suggests that the virus has well and truly passed.

Salvation Tambourine · 10-06-2020 12:19PM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Y
Besides after all this talk, all this guff you wouldn't your bollocks dare dawn black face at a party. So this is all hot air. So go do it with someone else

An Englishman should be able to go into a pub in Ireland wearing an England jersey while watching his country during a World Cup but would no doubt get some looks and possibly negative feedback on his decision to do so. Would you blame him for wearing the jersey or the people that have taken offense to his choice of clothing?

I'd like an answer that doesn't suggest that I think the two are exactly equal but neither is a large penis on a t-shirt worn in public.

B.A._Baracus · 10-06-2020 12:23PM

Nokotan wrote: »

An Englishman should be able to go into a pub in Ireland wearing an England jersey while watching his country during a World Cup but would no doubt get some looks and possibly negative feedback on his decision to do so. Would you blame him for wearing the jersey or the people that have taken offense to his choice of clothing?

I'd like an answer that doesn't suggest that I think the two are exactly equal but neither is a large penis on a t-shirt worn in public.

A question then I pose.... Do you plan on dawning the blackface soon?

Bobblehats · 10-06-2020 12:31PM

I think the blacking of the face of Ireland; as a whole is an utterly contemptible action that should be reprimanded severely. Shame on all those responsible.

Salvation Tambourine · 10-06-2020 12:32PM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

A question then I pose.... Do you plan on dawning the blackface soon?

I don't plan on dressing up as anyone in the near future but if it was okay to dress up as Virgil van Dijk it would be nice to be able to without people thinking I was insulting him and the entire black race rather than dressing up as someone I consider to be a fantastic footballer and role model.

Answering a question with a question doesn't answer my question.

B.A._Baracus · 10-06-2020 12:50PM

Nokotan wrote: »

I don't plan on dressing up as anyone in the near future but if it was okay to dress up as Virgil van Dijk it would be nice to be able to without people thinking I was insulting him and the entire black race rather than dressing up as someone I consider to be a fantastic footballer and role model.

Answering a question with a question doesn't answer my question.

Oh I know it doesnt. But thanks for answering that. Most would have deflected. I do mean that by the way.

But it also means that what we are talking about is all. Hot. Air.

You aren't stupid enough to dawn it.
I'm not stupid enough. Heck is anyone here? So what are we talking about? :pac: That it should be ok?

Then to that person I say do it. Buck the trend. Bring it back to being ok again - but what's that I hear.... Crickets Fu*king as a tumbleweed passes by? :pac:

Bret Hart · 10-06-2020 12:52PM

Just wait till they come across Lethal Weapon 6.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 10-06-2020 01:04PM

murpho999 wrote: »

In a way I get this as the film does portray black people as slaves who are happy with their lot and promotes the idea that slavery was ok..

I was watching the original Dumbo cartoon with my kids recently, and the black people don't even have faces. They're just clothed shadows, singing merrily as they undertake their manual labour.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-06-2020 01:13PM

I think dressing up as Mr. T because he's a good TV character should be fine. But the history of dressing up as black people was mocking them. And now any form of black face is taken as insulting.

It's like anything else related to this. If systemic racism wasn't a problem, dressing as Mr T wouldn't be a problem either.

Gwynplaine · 10-06-2020 01:15PM

Will White Chicks be taken off streaming services?

El_Duderino 09 · 10-06-2020 01:17PM

Gwynplaine wrote: »

Will White Chicks be taken off streaming services?

Depends. Is there a history of dressing as white people to mock them and is there currently systemic racism against white people in your country? If the answer is 'yes' to those questions, then it should probably be taken down. If the answer is 'no' then that's it.

Moznips · 10-06-2020 01:19PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Robert Downey Jr's blackface in Tropic Thunder was a breath of fresh air.
.

never go full blackface

murpho999 · 10-06-2020 01:22PM

Gwynplaine wrote: »

Will White Chicks be taken off streaming services?

Only for it being a really poor film. No other reason.

BnB · 10-06-2020 01:24PM

Tom Cruise is a racist pr1ck

#PaddyVoiceIsWrong

El_Duderino 09 · 10-06-2020 01:25PM

What's the problem with Jimmy Kimmel apologising for doing blackface in the past? I don't presume he's racist. I presume he didn't know it was racist to do blackface at the time.

But now he's found out that black people always thought it was racist and hurtful. So if Kimmel found out he hurt people and didn't know he was doing it then isn't it normal to apologise and learn from it?

In the past it was "fine" to do blackface not because it wasn't racist and hurtful to black people, but because nobody had to care about what black people thought. Now Floyd/BML movement has brought those things to light and now people are listening to what black people think. Turns out lots of them think blackface and statues venerating slave traders, are hurtful.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 10-06-2020 02:19PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What's the problem with Jimmy Kimmel apologising for doing blackface in the past? I don't presume he's racist. I presume he didn't know it was racist to do blackface at the time.

But now he's found out that black people always thought it was racist and hurtful. So if Kimmel found out he hurt people and didn't know he was doing it then isn't it normal to apologise and learn from it?

In the past it was "fine" to do blackface not because it wasn't racist and hurtful to black people, but because nobody had to care about what black people thought. Now Floyd/BML movement has brought those things to light and now people are listening to what black people think. Turns out lots of them think blackface and statues venerating slave traders, are hurtful.

Leigh Francis has apologised recently for the brown masks used in Bo Selecta. He claims he has been listening etc etc, and now knows it was hurtful. But Craig David, the main person beitng lampooned, has been open about how hurtful it was for over 20 years, he's said it made his life hell and I think even confronted Francis about it at its peak. Why is Mr. Francis ok with hurting someone directly for a prolonged period, but now feels the need to apologise for indirect impact? Has he apologised for portraying Christina Aguilera as a scouse prostitute? Maybe, but I dont think he has.

Lots of celebrities are using this to boost their profile, its absurd.

Nicky88 · 10-06-2020 02:24PM

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

THATS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

Your vagina smells

El_Duderino 09 · 10-06-2020 02:35PM

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Leigh Francis has apologised recently for the brown masks used in Bo Selecta. He claims he has been listening etc etc, and now knows it was hurtful. But Craig David, the main person beitng lampooned, has been open about how hurtful it was for over 20 years, he's said it made his life hell and I think even confronted Francis about it at its peak. Why is Mr. Francis ok with hurting someone directly for a prolonged period, but now feels the need to apologise for indirect impact? Has he apologised for portraying Christina Aguilera as a scouse prostitute? Maybe, but I dont think he has.

Lots of celebrities are using this to boost their profile, its absurd.

The bit in bold is a pertinent question and luckily there's an answer. The answer is thst the Floyd/BLM movement have momentum right now and that's why people are actually being forced to acknowledge and apologise for the things they did in the past.

That's the impact of protest when it works. Up to now, they didn't have to are about being hurtful to black people and now they do.

Fwiw, I don't get that Bo Selecta humour. Not sure if it was satire or lampoon what but I didn't get it.

Iscreamkone · 10-06-2020 02:38PM

Washington Redskins gotta go

El_Duderino 09 · 10-06-2020 02:40PM

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Washington Redskins gotta go

Maybe. That's been an issue for a long time.

Why do so so so many posters think it's clever to point out things that they DON'T think could change and pretend they think it should change?

topper75 · 10-06-2020 02:46PM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

You're full of crap dude. All I'm doing is going around in circles with you as you cherry pick what I say to respond too. After all you quoted me first by saying

You already made your mind up two hours ago by saying cheek and vile hatred. Who starts out with that? Someone who just wants an internet argument to push his or her views. I made the mistake of getting back to you.

Besides after all this talk, all this guff you wouldn't your bollocks dare dawn black face at a party. So this is all hot air. So go do it with someone else

Gee you sound really angry. And what is really funny is you are a white Irish guy taking offence. You made the 'mistake' of getting back to me? Yeah I don't think the respect issue is a skin colour one here. I think it is much more basic.

You decried people who are white putting on makeup to look like a black person. I pointed out the irony of your username. Not the funniest thing anybody will read on here today of course, but you failed to take that in good humour.

Back in the day you would have made a great priest with that kind of sanctimonious mindset. But much wiser and more erudite men than I have already talked about this phenomenon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT2rlJe9cuU

CrabRevolution · 10-06-2020 03:06PM

I was a big fan of this game when it came out, but I'm white. Does this make me racist?

Sebastian Dangerfield · 10-06-2020 03:08PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The bit in bold is a pertinent question and luckily there's an answer. The answer is thst the Floyd/BLM movement have momentum right now and that's why people are actually being forced to acknowledge and apologise for the things they did in the past.

That's the impact of protest when it works. Up to now, they didn't have to are about being hurtful to black people and now they do.

Fwiw, I don't get that Bo Selecta humour. Not sure if it was satire or lampoon what but I didn't get it.

I suppose my point is he claims to be ashamed of the racial overtone part of it. It was the impersonation part which got to Craig David so much. Perhaps Im wrong but it seems hes apologising for the "trendy" (hardly appropriate, but cant think of a better word) part of it, while not acknowleding the rest.

B.A._Baracus · 10-06-2020 03:13PM

topper75 wrote: »

Gee you sound really angry. And what is really funny is you are a white Irish guy taking offence. You made the 'mistake' of getting back to me? Yeah I don't think the respect issue is a skin colour one here. I think it is much more basic.

You decried people who are white putting on makeup to look like a black person. I pointed out the irony of your username. Not the funniest thing anybody will read on here today of course, but you failed to take that in good humour.

Back in the day you would have made a great priest with that kind of sanctimonious mindset. But much wiser and more erudite men than I have already talked about this phenomenon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT2rlJe9cuU

What's with the "you're angry" reply? :pac:

Has anyone noticed that lately? You see it all over boards now. People retort with it. Is this a new thing? Lol.

It pretty much falls into the family of "attack the poster, not the post" - which is a cheap trick to debate your side if I am to be honest.

But topper.. yet again your first post quoting me

topper75 wrote: »

What a cheek you have taking that username.

Pure vile hatred.

So go have a moan with someone else who hasn't wised on to you yet

Oh is this where you pull out your bag of tricks and say "well if you cannot add to the debate then rabble rabble" haha.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-06-2020 03:24PM

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

I suppose my point is he claims to be ashamed of the racial overtone part of it. It was the impersonation part which got to Craig David so much. Perhaps Im wrong but it seems hes apologising for the "trendy" (hardly appropriate, but cant think of a better word) part of it, while not acknowleding the rest.

Yeah and in your last post you asked why he's doing it now. The answer is that th Floyd/BLM Movement has gathered tremendous momentum in the last few weeks. So now Francis has apologised. I have no idea how sincere his apology is. I'm pretty sure he won't do it again.

Do you accept the answer to your question?

tonycascarino · 10-06-2020 03:36PM

If my hero was Mr. T, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Muhammad Ali etc. then I should be able to dress up as any of them at a party or whatever if I so wish. The PC freaks are going way too far in general IMO.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-06-2020 03:41PM

tonycascarino wrote: »

If my hero was Mr. T, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Muhammad Ali etc. then I should be able to dress up as any of them at a party or whatever if I so wish. The PC freaks are going way too far in general IMO.

I'd agree there is nothing wrong with dressing up as someone you like.

But it's difficult to ignore the historical context of dressing up as black people to mock them. If racism wasn't a systemic issue, then dressing up as Mr T wouldn't be an issue.

10-06-2020 03:49PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'd agree there is nothing wrong with dressing up as someone you like.

But it's difficult to ignore the historical context of dressing up as black people to mock them. If racism wasn't a systemic issue, then dressing up as Mr T wouldn't be an issue.

But its extremely evident that for example the kid going 'blackface' as Paul McGrath isn't mocking him at all, he's his hero. But context and nuance don't exist anymore.

murpho999 · 10-06-2020 03:56PM

Surely it's all about context or intent?

For example years ago there was on The Black and White Minstrel show and that represented an archaic and racial stereotype of black people that is wrong and totally unacceptable.

Till this day the Dutch celebrate "Sinterklaas" on December 5th and "De Sint" is assisted by his "Black Pete" or "Zwarte Piet". People black up with big red lips and ear rings and portray a dim witted character. Totally wrong in this day and age despite how any Dutch person will defend it.

Compare that to Robert Downey Jnrs role in Tropic Thunder or people blacking up in Father Ted to portray The Supremes, or a white person to portray a character who is black is not the same in my opinion as it does not portray black people in a negative light.

I think some balance and perspective is required.

Blackface

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