How will schools be able to go back in September?

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 06-06-2020 02:42PM

Boggles wrote: »

I'll try once more.

The HSE have not made masks mandatory for anyone, no such advice exists, particularly for kids returning to school. France have. One of these groups is kids returning to school aged 11+.

Now you can acknowledge that fact or you can continue to be obtuse, either way it's your own integrity you are chipping away at.

Also facts:

The HSE issued advice that face coverings are not suitable for under 13's.

Masks aren't mandatory for younger kids in French schools.

There are no "mandatory" rules or lack of for mask wearing in our schools because they are shut.

Boggles · 06-06-2020 03:33PM

Fúcking hell, now I know what the teachers mean when they tell me about those "awkward" parents.

All transmit and no receive.

ricero · 06-06-2020 04:32PM

Its gonna be some nightmare sorting out classrooms for September especially for secondary schools. A shortage of teachers, inadequate facilities and overpopulated classrooms.

I think Ireland has one of the highest student per teacher ratios in europe. The lack of investment in the past decade from Fine Gael in education will come back to bite us.

Treppen · 06-06-2020 07:25PM

ricero wrote: »

Its gonna be some nightmare sorting out classrooms for September especially for secondary schools. A shortage of teachers, inadequate facilities and overpopulated classrooms.

I think Ireland has one of the highest student per teacher ratios in europe. The lack of investment in the past decade from Fine Gael in education will come back to bite us.

Some parents won't care about the operational details as long as the kid are getting babysat.
Then there'll be more of the usual tut-tutters looking for any reason to give the school an earful.
And the bunch in the middle who just get on with things .

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 07-06-2020 09:28PM

Being reported by some media sites that NPHET is planning to give the go-ahead for the 2m rule to be reduced come July, provided the infection rates remain low.

Specifically for hospitality sector at the moment to allow them to reopen but given the capacity issues in schools we could be looking at a similar arrangement there too.

Nothing solid confirmed yet but it looks like the 2m guidelines will be continuously reviewed and we might see some exceptions made which could make planning for schools a bit easier.

JRant · 07-06-2020 10:56PM

So looking at a number of options that are being proposed by a few schools in the area and none make for good reading. Split days, alternate days, alternate weeks being the main ones. These all have major downsides for the children and teachers involved IMO. Children would have a completely disjointed schedule while it would be a nightmare for teachers to track the different groups on different rotas and try manage their day to day work plans.

If the DOE do keep with the 2m rule then they better start rewriting the curriculum asap because what the children have now is in no way designed for online workloads that these options would require.

The department will have to spell out very clearly to parents exactly what the requirements will be for the coming academic year, particularly the distance learning sections. Teachers will have enough on their plate without having to redo the curriculum as well.

I'm still not sure why classes, especially in Primary school can't be considered their own "bubble" allowing easy contact tracing etc. Maybe I'm not getting it but something will need to be done as having children in school for half the required time will be a huge blow to their education after missing 4 months of this year.

kandr10 · 07-06-2020 11:07PM

JRant wrote: »

So looking at a number of options that are being proposed by a few schools in the area and none make for good reading. Split days, alternate days, alternate weeks being the main ones. These all have major downsides for the children and teachers involved IMO. Children would have a completely disjointed schedule while it would be a nightmare for teachers to track the different groups on different rotas and try manage their day to day work plans.

If the DOE do keep with the 2m rule then they better start rewriting the curriculum asap because what the children have now is in no way designed for online workloads that these options would require.

The department will have to spell out very clearly to parents exactly what the requirements will be for the coming academic year, particularly the distance learning sections. Teachers will have enough on their plate without having to redo the curriculum as well.

I'm still not sure why classes, especially in Primary school can't be considered their own "bubble" allowing easy contact tracing etc. Maybe I'm not getting it but something will need to be done as having children in school for half the required time will be a huge blow to their education after missing 4 months of this year.

This is a good point about the curriculum. Particularly in second level, it will leave future jc and lc students at a severe disadvantage.
As far as a class being considered a bubble, I would guess it wouldn’t be practicable as the numbers would be too big. If there’s any risk of infection spreading, having 30 kids, a teacher and potentially sna all in close contact would significantly increase the risk of spread to those families outside the classroom also.

It would be great if the distancing was reduced, and was safe to do so. It would certainly take away a lot of those headaches.

JRant · 07-06-2020 11:18PM

kandr10 wrote: »

This is a good point about the curriculum. Particularly in second level, it will leave future jc and lc students at a severe disadvantage.
As far as a class being considered a bubble, I would guess it wouldn’t be practicable as the numbers would be too big. If there’s any risk of infection spreading, having 30 kids, a teacher and potentially sna all in close contact would significantly increase the risk of spread to those families outside the classroom also.

It would be great if the distancing was reduced, and was safe to do so. It would certainly take away a lot of those headaches.

Right now the numbers would appear to be too big for that but I've yet to see any science behind a 15 person limit that the government seen to be aiming for. With a contact tracing app it may be workable but who knows. For me it's a better idea than throwing out years of course development with absolutely nothing to replace it.

beggars_bush · 07-06-2020 11:50PM

ricero wrote: »

Its gonna be some nightmare sorting out classrooms for September especially for secondary schools. A shortage of teachers, inadequate facilities and overpopulated classrooms.

I think Ireland has one of the highest student per teacher ratios in europe. The lack of investment in the past decade from Fine Gael in education will come back to bite us.

Actually FG had started to lower the ratio
The biggest issue has been a high birth rate

History Queen · 07-06-2020 11:53PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

Actually FG had started to lower the ratio
The biggest issue has been a high birth rate

Had they? Legitimate question. I genuinely missed that, what did they do to lower the ratio?

s1ippy · 09-06-2020 06:59PM

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1270386124746379264?s=19

"The Director of the UCD National Virus Reference Laboratory has told the Dáil's special Covid-19 committee that the evidence around the use of cloth masks is "not fantastic".

Dr Cillian De Gascun told the committee the uptake of masks had not been very large, but added that there was not great evidence that the virus was stopped by non-medical grade or cloth masks."

https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2020/0609/1146359-masks-compulsory-in-spain-until-virus-is-eradicated/

"Meanwhile Spain's health minister has said that wearing face masks will be compulsory there until the coronavirus epidemic is defeated once and for all. Salvador Illa said the measure would remain in force after the state of emergency ends on 21 June and will "remain in place until we permanently defeat the virus, which is when we have an effective treatment or vaccine against it". Since 21 May, it has been compulsory for everyone aged six and over to wear a mask in public where it is not possible to maintain a two-metre security distance from other people."

Six and over. What do they know that we are refusing to fathom here???

Jizique · 09-06-2020 07:52PM

s1ippy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1270386124746379264?s=19

"The Director of the UCD National Virus Reference Laboratory has told the Dáil's special Covid-19 committee that the evidence around the use of cloth masks is "not fantastic".

Dr Cillian De Gascun told the committee the uptake of masks had not been very large, but added that there was not great evidence that the virus was stopped by non-medical grade or cloth masks."

https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2020/0609/1146359-masks-compulsory-in-spain-until-virus-is-eradicated/

"Meanwhile Spain's health minister has said that wearing face masks will be compulsory there until the coronavirus epidemic is defeated once and for all. Salvador Illa said the measure would remain in force after the state of emergency ends on 21 June and will "remain in place until we permanently defeat the virus, which is when we have an effective treatment or vaccine against it". Since 21 May, it has been compulsory for everyone aged six and over to wear a mask in public where it is not possible to maintain a two-metre security distance from other people."

Six and over. What do they know that we are refusing to fathom here???

Do all the holiday makers who are planning their summer trips know that they will have to wear a mask all the time?

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 09-06-2020 09:23PM

s1ippy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1270386124746379264?s=19

"The Director of the UCD National Virus Reference Laboratory has told the Dáil's special Covid-19 committee that the evidence around the use of cloth masks is "not fantastic".

Dr Cillian De Gascun told the committee the uptake of masks had not been very large, but added that there was not great evidence that the virus was stopped by non-medical grade or cloth masks."

https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2020/0609/1146359-masks-compulsory-in-spain-until-virus-is-eradicated/

"Meanwhile Spain's health minister has said that wearing face masks will be compulsory there until the coronavirus epidemic is defeated once and for all. Salvador Illa said the measure would remain in force after the state of emergency ends on 21 June and will "remain in place until we permanently defeat the virus, which is when we have an effective treatment or vaccine against it". Since 21 May, it has been compulsory for everyone aged six and over to wear a mask in public where it is not possible to maintain a two-metre security distance from other people."

Six and over. What do they know that we are refusing to fathom here???

It's only compulsory where social distancing can't be maintained, so looks like the rules are either social distance or wear a mask.

Good luck to them enforcing that and deciding exactly when the virus is permanently defeated

Spanish Eyes · 09-06-2020 11:32PM

I detest sand.

Therefore I avoid beaches. Who the heck likes sand? But the kiddies love it I suppose. Show me an adult that likes SAND. Ugh.

Treppen · 10-06-2020 12:28AM

beggars_bush wrote: »

Actually FG had started to lower the ratio
The biggest issue has been a high birth rate

Actually, Have you a source for that?

the corpo · 10-06-2020 05:28PM

I have it.
Convert *all* schools to boarding schools. Drop the kids off September 1st and get them again at Christmas. Grand job.

beggars_bush · 10-06-2020 07:00PM

Treppen wrote: »

Actually, Have you a source for that?

https://www.finegael.ie/pupil-teacher-ratio-reduced-lowest-level-ever-mcloughlin/

History Queen · 10-06-2020 07:08PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

https://www.finegael.ie/pupil-teacher-ratio-reduced-lowest-level-ever-mcloughlin/

Didn't actually happen on the ground. Pupil teacher ratio is higher than that.

blueberrypie · 10-06-2020 07:22PM

Info on schools reopening will be released on Friday.

wirelessdude01 · 10-06-2020 08:36PM

blueberrypie wrote: »

Info on schools reopening will be released on Friday.

Going to be busy with Dept press releases on Friday. JP/Summer school stuff to be released as well.

khalessi · 10-06-2020 08:38PM

Hope it wont be as generalised as todays performancein the Dail

TheValeyard · 10-06-2020 08:39PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Going to be busy with Dept press releases on Friday. JP/Summer school stuff to be released as well.

Wonder who Is doing the summer school stuff. Be interesting to find out.

mirrorwall14 · 10-06-2020 08:40PM

blueberrypie wrote: »

Info on schools reopening will be released on Friday.

They are obsessed with releasing circulars on a bloody Friday

wirelessdude01 · 10-06-2020 09:28PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

Wonder who Is doing the summer school stuff. Be interesting to find out.

The word 'voluntary' is used a lot in an article on rte.ie so I wonder if teachers and SNAs are going to be sort of bullied into doing it for free this year. When that doesn't happen the dept and media can just blame those lazy teachers and SNAs. You know how these things happen. Govt don't really want to have to pay for their expanded criteria this year so easier to make it fail before it starts.

BonsaiKitten · 10-06-2020 09:52PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The word 'voluntary' is used a lot in an article on rte.ie so I wonder if teachers and SNAs are going to be sort of bullied into doing it for free this year. When that doesn't happen the dept and media can just blame those lazy teachers and SNAs. You know how these things happen. Govt don't really want to have to pay for their expanded criteria this year so easier to make it fail before it starts.

Absolutely. If the Government think the work is that important, they can pay for the work. A lot of teachers got screwed last year with July Provision pay so the Govt have already eroded goodwill towards summer work.

Joe McHugh has the following line on his Twitter: "It is no small request. But for those who can, the contribution to vulnerable children will be appreciated & rewarding."

The word rewarding stands out there. Not rewarded or remunerated - rewarding.

khalessi · 10-06-2020 10:04PM

I was listening to him earlier referring to schools being closed for 12 weeks. He could have said they moved online but didnt.

s1ippy · 11-06-2020 02:31AM

TheValeyard wrote: »

Wonder who Is doing the summer school stuff. Be interesting to find out.

Definitely not teachers anyway, before anyone thinks that!

It couldn't possibly be offered without supplementary pay, but there is no way teachers are going to be going without holidays. Spoke to a friend today who has sixth class and they are nearly dead from the workload in the past two weeks particularly.

The "lazy teachers", whoever they are, are doing all the others a huge disservice if it's really as bad as parents claim. Someone told me the other day they saw two of their children's teachers lying on a beach at 9am during the week and they haven't engaged with them once since March. Absolutely mental.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/minister-urges-schools-to-run-summer-scheme-after-low-take-up-reported-1.4275561?mode=amp

I used to do July provision and it was very hard work. If I had spent the last three months having to put in the sort of work I'm hearing about teachers putting in and I was expected to do that work for free I would be diving for the door (again). Reminds me all over again why the pros of public sector are heavily outweighed by the cons.

Elliejo · 11-06-2020 12:26PM

When speaking to the principal of a local school where July Provision is always done, up to Monday at least there had been no communication from the Department despite her looking for guidelines. But yet the schools, teachers and SNAs will be blamed if it is not in place.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 11-06-2020 03:01PM

s1ippy wrote: »

I used to do July provision and it was very hard work. If I had spent the last three months having to put in the sort of work I'm hearing about teachers putting in and I was expected to do that work for free I would be diving for the door (again). Reminds me all over again why the pros of public sector are heavily outweighed by the cons.

Did he say teachers would be expected to do it for free?

khalessi · 11-06-2020 03:07PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Did he say teachers would be expected to do it for free?

He asked for teachers and SNAs to volunteer but I presume like previous years they will be paid for it.

The difficulty is that there are problems every year getting paid and some teachers have not yet been paid for last years July provision.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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