How will schools be able to go back in September?

downthemiddle

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

We'll all be wondering why the Leaving Certificate had to be cancelled and couldn't be held in July as planned. It's looking like everything will be up and running by the end of this month.

Schools will be open in September, teachers better get adjusted to that reality fairly sharpish. Public sentiment is wearing thin, something the Government clearly recognises considering they are about to effectively abandon the entire roadmap they set out a few weeks ago.

Can I ask who you feel public sentiment is wearing thin with, teachers or government?

daydorunrun

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I still think that there is a need and requirement for the dept to give us proper guidance and guidelines for September. None of us teachers want to be left scratching in the dark again come September/October or sometime during the winter if we have to implement some form of restrictions in the school environment. This is where the department officials need to earn their salaries.

Are teachers not capable of independent though? Can staff in schools not get together as adults and make plans that suit their unique circumstances (every school is different) or do they need fellow civil servants to give them guidelines even though they have never set foot in their school? I also included parents in this- schools and parents (ptas) should be proactive in make sure hand washing facilities and supplies are catered for. People need to be proactive in protecting kids and teachers rather than waiting to be babysat.

History Queen

daydorunrun wrote: »

Are teachers not capable of independent though? Can staff in schools not get together as adults and make plans that suit their unique circumstances (every school is different) or do they need fellow civil servants to give them guidelines even though they have never set foot in their school? I also included parents in this- schools and parents (ptas) should be proactive in make sure hand washing facilities and supplies are catered for. People need to be proactive in protecting kids and teachers rather than waiting to be babysat.

It's not about needing babysitting. It's about accountability. At the end of the day schools are run by the state. There needs to be a uniform approach to ensure standards and funding. That being said absolutely on a local level schools will be proactive.

downthemiddle

daydorunrun wrote: »

Are teachers not capable of independent though? Can staff in schools not get together as adults and make plans that suit their unique circumstances (every school is different) or do they need fellow civil servants to give them guidelines even though they have never set foot in their school? I also included parents in this- schools and parents (ptas) should be proactive in make sure hand washing facilities and supplies are catered for. People need to be proactive in protecting kids and teachers rather than waiting to be babysat.

I think you will find most teachers are extremely capable. However there are a number of issues that will need clarification.
What is happening with social distancing? Will it be 2m, 1.5m, 1m or totally abolished. From reports today it would appear that there will be an emphasis on social distancing for the foreseeable future. That will cause major issues in the reopening of schools as most are poorly designed to accommodate social distancing.
Teacher supply is a major issue. Currently there is a shortage of teachers and it is virtually impossible to get a sub if a teacher is absent. Children are normally split amongst other classes in such circumstances. Will the department create adequate supply panels or will schools have to send children home if a teacher presents with a high temperature?
Inadequate funding will have to be tackled. All schools have an issue with state funding which doesn't cover the basic costs of running a school. Will there be additional funding provided to cover the additional costs that schools will face?
Will the issue of inadequate hand washing facilities in many schools be tackled? Having a couple of hundred children sharing a sink is unacceptable in the current climate. Do the Department intend tackling this issue over the summer?
These are only a small number of the issues that will need to be tackled, not by school communities, by those who control the purse strings. The Department have a history of cutting corners and doing things on the cheap. The Western Buildings fiasco, and the fact that they are still winning tenders for work in schools, is reflective of the approach taken.
There is a genuine opportunity here to tackle some of the long term issues in education. However we are much more likely to emerge with with another inadequate response and an attempt to pass responsibility down the line.

sideswipe

downthemiddle wrote: »

I think you will find most teachers are extremely capable. However there are a number of issues that will need clarification.
What is happening with social distancing? Will it be 2m, 1.5m, 1m or totally abolished. From reports today it would appear that there will be an emphasis on social distancing for the foreseeable future. That will cause major issues in the reopening of schools as most are poorly designed to accommodate social distancing.
Teacher supply is a major issue. Currently there is a shortage of teachers and it is virtually impossible to get a sub if a teacher is absent. Children are normally split amongst other classes in such circumstances. Will the department create adequate supply panels or will schools have to send children home if a teacher presents with a high temperature?
Inadequate funding will have to be tackled. All schools have an issue with state funding which doesn't cover the basic costs of running a school. Will there be additional funding provided to cover the additional costs that schools will face?
Will the issue of inadequate hand washing facilities in many schools be tackled? Having a couple of hundred children sharing a sink is unacceptable in the current climate. Do the Department intend tackling this issue over the summer?
These are only a small number of the issues that will need to be tackled, not by school communities, by those who control the purse strings. The Department have a history of cutting corners and doing things on the cheap. The Western Buildings fiasco, and the fact that they are still winning tenders for work in schools, is reflective of the approach taken.
There is a genuine opportunity here to tackle some of the long term issues in education. However we are much more likely to emerge with with another inadequate response and an attempt to pass responsibility down the line.

Personally I can appreciate all those points, if I were a teacher no doubt I'd be pulling my hair out. But be under no illusion this country will be heading into a tight situation financially, the money borrowed will need to be paid back and the exchequer will not have the funds to right the wrongs of the past or cover the needs of the near future. I hope parents will appreciate schools, teachers more when this is over so we can all work together to help schools, our PTA has been organising outside hand-washing facilities with funds that were available, more schools will need to be pro-active IMO.

downthemiddle

sideswipe wrote: »

I can appreciate all those points, if I were a teacher no doubt I'd be pulling my hair out. But be under no illusion this country will be heading into a tight situation financially, the money borrowed will need to be paid back and the exchequer will not have the funds to right the wrongs of the past or cover the needs of the near future. I hope parents will appreciate schools, teachers more when this is over so we can all work together to help schools, our PTA has been organising outside hand-washing facilities with funds that were available, more schools will need to be pro-active IMO.

Central procurement is an obvious area to look at for hygiene products. The buying power of a government department relative to each individual school is a no brainer.

beggars_bush

downthemiddle wrote: »

Central procurement is an obvious area to look at for hygiene products. The buying power of a government department relative to each individual school is a no brainer.

usually the department wash their hands of any responsibility for procurement when it comes to schools - IT equipment, tables, services eg electricity,

Oh nice, a pun!

Dickie10

i would imagine the department will give out more hours and teacher jobs to schools to fill now, classes that had 28-29 will have to be brought back to 14-15 and second teachers recruited. are the teachers out there? very few permanant jobs but still lots of work for teachers during the year.

wirelessdude01

Dickie10 wrote: »

i would imagine the department will give out more hours and teacher jobs to schools to fill now, classes that had 28-29 will have to be brought back to 14-15 and second teachers recruited. are the teachers out there? very few permanant jobs but still lots of work for teachers during the year.

Where will all these extra classes be housed?

Dickie10

portacabins prob

beggars_bush

Dickie10 wrote: »

portacabins prob

Nice windfall for the portacabins companies and their well connected owners
Not so good for schools whose green space will disappear

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Dickie10 wrote: »

classes that had 28-29 will have to be brought back to 14-15 and second teachers recruited.

Unlikely, 12 weeks from now when everything else in the country has been open for a while there will probably be some guidelines but nothing drastic. Schools across Europe might have had to take these measures but thats because they know the importance of having the schools open ASAP, it won't be necessary in 3 months time.

It's an absolute shame that the government has not prioritised childrens education as part of the road map and the fact that pubs have been given he go ahead to open sooner well before schools really says a lot.

Expect to see very fluid guidelines for schools issued next week which will be very much open to change by the time they actually return.

KK4SAM

Well somebody has to look after the teachers ?

Boggles

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Unlikely, 12 weeks from now when everything else in the country has been open for a while there will probably be some guidelines but nothing drastic. Schools across Europe might have had to take these measures but thats because they know the importance of having the schools open ASAP, it won't be necessary in 3 months time.

Sorry, did I miss a memo?

Is the global pandemic over?

Benimar

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry, did I miss a memo?

Is the global pandemic over?

No you didn’t.

Someone else missed the CMO say YESTERDAY that there is NO evidence to support reducing Social Distance from 2M. Also, the need to keep SD and wash hands regularly etc actually increases now everyone will be exposed to more people.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Benimar wrote: »

No you didn’t.

Someone else missed the CMO say YESTERDAY that there is NO evidence to support reducing Social Distance from 2M.

Thats today, with 12 weeks to go and the state of our school infrastructure I'd say they all have their fingers crossed that they will be able to drop social distancing.

Schools that are implementing it currently across the world are doing it because they have opened back up. They have put children's education as a priority, we haven't and won't be opening for at least 3 months time.

We've already ditched a phase from our road map and things are returning to normal at a much quicker pace than expected.

Thankfully I don't need a memo to explain to me whats happening.

Boggles

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Thats today, with 12 weeks to go and the state of our school infrastructure I'd say they all have their fingers crossed that they will be able to drop social distancing.

Schools that are implementing it currently across the world are doing it because they have opened back up. They have put children's education as a priority, we haven't and won't be opening for at least 3 months time.

We've already ditched a phase from our road map and things are returning to normal at a much quicker pace than expected.

Thankfully I don't need a memo to explain to me whats happening.

So mission accomplished, global pandemic over?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Boggles wrote: »

So mission accomplished, global pandemic over?

In Ireland in 3 months time when schools go back, probably. We'll eventually reach a point where we don't have any more cases or a small handful sure we're nearly there already hence the accelerated road map.

Boggles

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

In Ireland in 3 months time when schools go back, probably. We'll eventually reach a point where we don't have any more cases or a small handful sure we're nearly there already hence the accelerated road map.

So in 3 months time the global pandemic will be over?

Sorry but, I'll need a bit of citation for such a cocksure claim.

Have you any?

thenetherrealm

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

In Ireland in 3 months time when schools go back, probably. We'll eventually reach a point where we don't have any more cases or a small handful sure we're nearly there already hence the accelerated road map.

What you have repeatedly failed to realise (or willingly ignored) is that the only reason we have had such a deduction in cases is because of school shutdown, social distancing, and strict lockdown. As you say yourself, they have accelerated the road map, so that's the strict lockdown lifted. Schools will reopen in August/September (something I know you have repeatedly complained about in this thread, seemingly thinking all schools should have returned already or that teachers come back in the middle of their summer holidays), so that is school shutdown lifted. If they also lift social distancing, then all the strategies implemented to try and flatten the curve and limit the spread of the virus will be gone.



I know you want to get your children out the door and into schools ASAP, but don't ignore the facts. If people continue to follow the advice of the government, then in 12 weeks we will hopefully be in a great position as a country to fight the virus. But to suggest that all strategies be abandoned come September is just ignorant of the facts.



Look at France.

Look at South Korea.

Then apply that to Ireland, where we have larger class sizes and smaller classrooms.


Now do you see the issue?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

thenetherrealm wrote: »

Look at France.

Look at South Korea.

Then apply that to Ireland, where we have larger class sizes and smaller classrooms.


Now do you see the issue?

Yes I do see the problem and so do the government, they know we can't mirror what other schools have done because of our huge class numbers and small schools, reliance on prefabs and lack of space.

Which is why the rules around social distancing will change prior to September.

thenetherrealm

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Yes I do see the problem and so do the government, they know we can't mirror what other schools have done because of our huge class numbers and small schools, reliance on prefabs and lack of space.

Which is why the rules around social distancing will change prior to September.

Obviously you don't see the issue.


Schools. in France and South Korea went back, while implementing social distancing, and had to close because the virus increased again, linked directly to school reopening.



They cannot completely discard of social distancing rules here, or schools will be closed for months again come Halloween.



To keep this virus under control, social distancing will be here for the foreseeable future. A regrettable truth, but a truth nonetheless.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

thenetherrealm wrote: »

Obviously you don't see the issue.


Schools. in France and South Korea went back, while implementing social distancing, and had to close because the virus increased again, linked directly to school reopening.



They cannot completely discard of social distancing rules here, or schools will be closed for months again come Halloween.



To keep this virus under control, social distancing will be here for the foreseeable future. A regrettable truth, but a truth nonetheless.

Given that we'll have had and extra what 4 or 5 months under our belt compared to those countries I really don't think so.

We might have localised closures if and when the odd case crops up but schools will not be 'closed for months' again.

Creches open for all in 3 weeks time with no social distancing.

Snugglebunnies

Is it likely that social distancing will be scrapped for schools in September and kids will be able go back as normal? Same for creches?

I really think distancing, restricted class sizes, hours and days will be unworkable in a practical sense, even when you consider buses etc.

It will be a nightmare for working parents, especially if grandparents are unable to step in.

Im a single parent and can only work at the moment because my sister is an SNA and is off work at the moment so can help me out.

My parents are happy to take my daughter back for school runs etc in September but obviously I don't want to be risking them!

thenetherrealm

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Given that we'll have had and extra what 4 or 5 months under our belt compared to those countries I really don't think so.

We might have localised closures if and when the odd case crops up but schools will not be 'closed for months' again.

Creches open for all in 3 weeks time with no social distancing.

This is my last time responding to you, as you seem intent on not reading into the topic, and instead want to live in willful ignorance.


To quote the government guidelines on reopening creches:


"The guidance, developed in consultation with her department, focuses on a “play-pod” model. The “play pod” model restricts interactions between closed groups of children and adults as an alternative to social distancing, which is not possible with young children. The purpose of ‘play-pods’ is to limit the number of people a child has contact with, to facilitate tracing, and to support close, positive interactions between children and their adult caregivers, like in a key-worker system. This system will also reduce the amount of contact adults have with each other. Where possible, there should be two adults in a ‘play-pod’, to allow breaks without need for floating staff. The maximum size of a ‘play-pod’ will be confirmed in the coming days."


In a classroom, this would look like a limited number of children coming into school at a time, such as a day by day or week on/week off model, until we see the impact of school reopening. I do believe schools will be back to full capacity after Halloween if a staggered reopening shows no increase in cases.



Again, I am done arguing with you now. There is a lot of information out there. Please go and read it for yourself.

Boggles

Jesus there is a worrying disconnect from reality by a few participants on this thread. Global Pandemic will over just in time to start our school year, that's fúcking convenient.

I imagine they would prefer to be hospitalized with Covid then spend one more minute with their kids. :pac:

ldy4mxonucwsq6

thenetherrealm wrote: »

This is my last time responding to you, as you seem intent on not reading into the topic, and instead want to live in willful ignorance.


To quote the government guidelines on reopening creches:


"The guidance, developed in consultation with her department, focuses on a “play-pod” model. The “play pod” model restricts interactions between closed groups of children and adults as an alternative to social distancing, which is not possible with young children. The purpose of ‘play-pods’ is to limit the number of people a child has contact with, to facilitate tracing, and to support close, positive interactions between children and their adult caregivers, like in a key-worker system. This system will also reduce the amount of contact adults have with each other. Where possible, there should be two adults in a ‘play-pod’, to allow breaks without need for floating staff. The maximum size of a ‘play-pod’ will be confirmed in the coming days."


In a classroom, this would look like a limited number of children coming into school at a time, such as a day by day or week on/week off model, until we see the impact of school reopening. I do believe schools will be back to full capacity after Halloween if a staggered reopening shows no increase in cases.



Again, I am done arguing with you now. There is a lot of information out there. Please go and read it for yourself.

Oh I know about pods and the model they are based on, I discussed them about 20 pages or so ago. It will mean some minimal changes from what happens currently in creches and no disruption to the children.

A lot of people living in wilful ignorance now but I prefer reality with a small dose of optimism. We are well on the road to recovery from this but there will be a few people who find that difficult to come to terms with life going back to normal.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus there is a worrying disconnect from reality by a few participants on this thread. Global Pandemic will over just in time to start our school year, that's fúcking convenient.

I imagine they would prefer to be hospitalized with Covid then spend one more minute with their kids. :pac:

You imagine a lot of things......is it not real unless a memo has arrived to inform you of it

Benimar

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus there is a worrying disconnect from reality by a few participants on this thread. Global Pandemic will over just in time to start our school year, that's fúcking convenient.

I imagine they would prefer to be hospitalized with Covid then spend one more minute with their kids. :pac:

And if not, let’s get rid of the thing that pretty much every expert says has the largest impact on the R number!

Social Distancing will be here in September, and for a while to come.

Boggles

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

You imagine a lot of things......is it not real unless a memo has arrived to inform you of it

Yeah, right not I am imagining the global pandemic will be over just in time for the Irish schools to return. #superconvenient.

:pac: