Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Flickerfusion · 09-06-2020 01:58PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That's mad

He expects almost a million of us to be in ICU per year for next 4 to 5 years

Considering the very positive news in recent days on vaccines and the speed they’re progressing at, this pandemic is very unlikely to last years.

A second wave however is still very possible this year. I don’t know why this sudden extreme confidence in it not spreading again is coming from, given nor nothing seems to have changed other than the lockdown.

If social distancing gets forgotten about, which seems very likely, I can’t really see how it’s not going to just pick up again in the weeks ahead, and not just here.

Ideally we should be taking more precautions but opening the economy and getting the balance right. Hard to judge it from these online bubbles though. Maybe people are being a lot more pragmatic than the posters here.

facehugger99 · 09-06-2020 01:59PM

setanta1984 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-rules-for-holidays-in-ireland-under-covid-19-no-buffets-mini-bars-or-close-dancing-1.4274393
All this is so insane and over the top. We're utterly collectively losing our minds.

Some of these 'guidelines' are mental:
"Hotels: Guests will be asked to enter the property through doors that are automated or manually operated by an employee where possible"
"If guests use bell service, “ask them to place their luggage on the ground. The bell service can then commence, after which the bell cart can be cleaned and disinfected.”"
"Restaurateurs are being asked to verbally tell customers what is on the menu"
"For golfers, the space between tee times will be increased to 15-minute intervals"

This one is the best, and like something out of a monty python sketch:
"Embellishments on drinks such as decorative cocktail umbrellas will have to be “minimised.”"

Are we living in cloud cuckoo land or what?
You have all these nuts ideas, but anyone can walk into a supermarket and pick up every box of cornflakes, every single product in the shop, lick it and put it back. You can touch any door to any shop yourself. But apparently umbrellas in drinks are lethal and need to be outlawed??

The rubbish about steaming clothes after someone tries on something reported over the last few days was another one. That's apparantly necessary, but you can walk around the clothes section in Tesco for the last 3 months pawing anything you like? And yet it hasn't resulted in the apocalypse?

It's all insane. Companies are going to be made invest in a load of stupid 'regulations' only to realise it's all nonsense after about 3 weeks when compliance falls to nothing and the sky doesn't fall in. Like it didn't with the supermarkets and petrol stations etc. which operated fine all along.

This is all being driven by a Government desperate to prove that lockdown was necessary.

I mean if we were all to return to normal, you might get a load of people questioning why such draconian measures were imposed in the first place.

It's total nonsense but you can see on-thread that it's already working with the weak-minded who are parroting the line that the lockdown is the reason we don't have 50,000 deaths.

VonLuck · 09-06-2020 02:01PM

average_runner wrote: »

Why not manage two meters with markings, that will the people that don't know what 2 meters is.

Because it doesn't strictly need to be 2m. Many businesses will not be viable with those restrictions in place.

CalamariFritti · 09-06-2020 02:01PM

is_that_so wrote: »

We don't know the degree of effect precisely but indoor public events are seen as a big factor in the transmission of the disease and keeping people apart reduces the risk for a cluster to get any bigger.

I should have been clearer. My issue is with the headline "Lockdowns keep infections at bay".

How would anyone know from this graph is what I'm saying. I'm agreement with the indoor events. Just not with the lockdowns bit.

average_runner · 09-06-2020 02:02PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

This is all being driven by a Government desperate to prove that lockdown was necessary.

I mean if we were all to return to normal, you might get a load of people questioning why such draconian measures were imposed in the first place.

It's total nonsense but you can see on-thread that it's already working with the weak-minded who are parroting the line that the lockdown is the reason we don't have 50,000 deaths.

Again people are reading rubbish articles in Irish papers

Nothing has really changed for campsites in Ireland, except the play ground needs to cleaned twice a day and showers and bathrooms twice a day.

Most campsites clean them hourly

If we did what Sweden did we be in worst position financially also

is_that_so · 09-06-2020 02:03PM

Chicoso wrote: »

"Hotels 'should avoid' offering buffet-style service under new guidelines"

Such horsesh1t

Regulations are way to complex anyhow, distance is the main thing

They want to get going again and if producing hyper cautious rules will do that they'll take it. Remember how weird all the supermarket stuff was to start with? We'll adapt, because that's what humans do. In time some of it will be rolled back, all of it extraneous stuff eventually.

Micky 32 · 09-06-2020 02:04PM

VonLuck wrote: »

This is why a distance of 2m should be kept for the general public as most do not understand how long 2m is.

1m should only be permitted by businesses where they can actually manage it by markings on the ground and limiting the number of people in the store.

The funny thing was the shop had markings outside it on the footpath, there were people standing in between them, that’s how i noticed.

Micky 32 · 09-06-2020 02:06PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That's mad

He expects almost a million of us to be in ICU per year for next 4 to 5 years

There will be posters on here that will actually believe that.

Cork Boy 53 · 09-06-2020 02:06PM

growleaves wrote: »

Some countries had a different suite of restrictions contra lockdown, as you know, and suffered less deaths. No time here for a comprehensive comparison but amazing that anyone is still holding on to the evil policy of lockdown. Even if it is better than nothing (unproven, but reasonable) it does not seem to be the most effective strategy overall. It is also the strategy that produces the most adverse side-effects in economic toll and mental suffering. It makes aspects of our society isomorphic to that of a Communist society.

Evil policy of lockdown? So the authorities who implemented the restrictions in the best interests of public health were imposing an evil policy? FFS:rolleyes:

average_runner · 09-06-2020 02:07PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

The funny thing was the shop had markings outside it on the footpath, there were people standing in between them, that’s how i noticed.

You can't protect people against stupidity

is_that_so · 09-06-2020 02:07PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I should have been clearer. My issue is with the headline "Lockdowns keep infections at bay".

How would anyone know from this graph is what I'm saying. I'm agreement with the indoor events. Just not with the lockdowns bit.

It's really the enforced distancing effect of the lockdowns. There will be whole lot of data to peruse on this and many things learnt. Aside from test, isolate and contact trace other approaches will probably vary and in theory be less severe if we face into something like this again.

LuckyLloyd · 09-06-2020 02:13PM

hmmm wrote: »

This thread is hilarious. Where do you lot hang out normally?

From hugging grandparents left right and centre in the middle of a pandemic, to believing that shops will be full if we simply close our eyes and ignore everything, to some form of religious vision that a virus will never come back - and most of all a belief that you're all right and everyone else is wrong. It's just a riot of self-delusion.

It's so completely bizarre and bears no relation to the general conversations I'm seeing elsewhere on the Internet and in real life.

Cork Boy 53 · 09-06-2020 02:21PM

AdamD wrote: »

Its possible to believe the lockdown stopped the spread of the virus and that we also do not need a similar lockdown in the future. By the time winter hits we should know enough about the spread of the virus to suspend certain high risk activities without shutting the whole country.

Which high risk activities in particular are you referring to?

growleaves · 09-06-2020 02:25PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Evil policy of lockdown? So the authorities who implemented the restrictions in the best interests of public health were imposing an evil policy? FFS:rolleyes:

I thought the justification for the lockdown was that it was a "necessary evil", and I don't recall any moral defense of the lockdown other than a purely consequentialist one.

MickeyLeari · 09-06-2020 02:27PM

growleaves wrote: »

I thought the justification for the lockdown was that it was a "necessary evil", and I don't recall any moral defense of the lockdown other than a purely consequentialist one.

That message was lost.

Tenzor07 · 09-06-2020 02:27PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Which high risk activities in particular are you referring to?

Having a game of Bingo
Going to see a movie
Having a wedding.

Standing at the bar having a drink.
Standing less than 2m away from another person.

Sitting on a bus seat with one of the signs on it...

Ginger n Lemon · 09-06-2020 02:27PM

Lets hope

Ibec chief executive Danny McCoy will call for the immediate removal of quarantine restrictions related to coronavirus and the replacement of the 2m social distancing to a 1m requirement when he appears before the Oireachtas committee on Covid-19 on Tuesday.

In his opening address, Mr McCoy will also warn members that business does not believe the timing of certain “quarantine impositions” are either logical or implementable, particularly given the porous Border with the North.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/businesses-to-seek-instant-end-to-lockdown-and-halving-of-2m-rule-1.4273864?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Fbusinesses-to-seek-instant-end-to-lockdown-and-halving-of-2m-rule-1.4273864

Today will be very interesting

Cork Boy 53 · 09-06-2020 02:29PM

average_runner wrote: »

Why not manage two meters with markings, that will the people that don't know what 2 meters is.

I think the vast majority of people understand what 2 metres is. Possible exceptions would be very elderly people, those with some sort of disability dementia etc. Apart from those categories the reason anybody who doesn't comply with the 2 metre regulations is that they can`t be arsed.

Tenzor07 · 09-06-2020 02:34PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I think the vast majority of people understand what 2 metres is. Possible exceptions would be very elderly people, those with some sort of disability dementia etc. Apart from those categories the reason anybody who doesn't comply with the 2 metre regulations is that they can`t be arsed.

Or gangs of teen lads who don't GAF?

09-06-2020 02:41PM

When you go to an event with an open bar, its great while the open bar lasts. Order whatever you want for as long as you want. But once the open bar is lifted, you suddenly realize that your small glass of pina colada cost 14 euro. Its different when its your own money.

Its a similar situation with this lockdown. A lot of people are better off financially for one reason or another. Maybe the Covid payment is more than they were earning. Maybe they have a pay holiday from their mortgage. No child care. Maybe working from home and no more commuting costs etc.

Its all unsustainable though. Eventually the Covid payment will have to be scrapped. The banks will have to receive payments or repossess assets. You'll be forced to go back to work or leave the job.

There is a huge bill to pay. The only way we can try to avoid paying it is to push it onto our kids, which is a ****ty thing to do. Maybe an austerity like budget just before Xmas will be what is really needed to soften the support for lockdowns.

plodder · 09-06-2020 02:48PM

setanta1984 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-rules-for-holidays-in-ireland-under-covid-19-no-buffets-mini-bars-or-close-dancing-1.4274393
All this is so insane and over the top. We're utterly collectively losing our minds.

Some of these 'guidelines' are mental:
"Hotels: Guests will be asked to enter the property through doors that are automated or manually operated by an employee where possible"
"If guests use bell service, “ask them to place their luggage on the ground. The bell service can then commence, after which the bell cart can be cleaned and disinfected.”"
"Restaurateurs are being asked to verbally tell customers what is on the menu"
"For golfers, the space between tee times will be increased to 15-minute intervals"

This one is the best, and like something out of a monty python sketch:
"Embellishments on drinks such as decorative cocktail umbrellas will have to be “minimised.”"

Are we living in cloud cuckoo land or what?
You have all these nuts ideas, but anyone can walk into a supermarket and pick up every box of cornflakes, every single product in the shop, lick it and put it back. You can touch any door to any shop yourself. But apparently umbrellas in drinks are lethal and need to be outlawed??

The rubbish about steaming clothes after someone tries on something reported over the last few days was another one. That's apparantly necessary, but you can walk around the clothes section in Tesco for the last 3 months pawing anything you like? And yet it hasn't resulted in the apocalypse?

It's all insane. Companies are going to be made invest in a load of stupid 'regulations' only to realise it's all nonsense after about 3 weeks when compliance falls to nothing and the sky doesn't fall in. Like it didn't with the supermarkets and petrol stations etc. which operated fine all along.

I heard that about the steaming of clothes, and if that can't be done, the clothes are quarantined for 72 hours. You have to assume that they are doing this in an inordinate effort to make people feel safe. But, stuff that is extravagantly pointless like this could end up having the opposite effect.

stephenjmcd · 09-06-2020 02:50PM

From RTE

Prof Nolan told the Dáil committee that "part of the uncertainty around 1 metre and 2 metres or face masks versus no face masks, is even though we have evidence about what they do to droplets, we have very limited evidence about what they do to your actual chances of catching the thing".

He said that is "why there's a constant erring on the side of caution, it's not necessarily erring, but if you're going to make a mistake you need to make a mistake on the side of caution, not on the side of liberty".

Ginger n Lemon · 09-06-2020 02:51PM

pjohnson wrote: »

I dont think Ginger ever fully understood what was actually going on.

Ouch.

Even to a guy like me thats cold.

ZX7R · 09-06-2020 02:51PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

From RTE

Prof Nolan told the Dáil committee that "part of the uncertainty around 1 metre and 2 metres or face masks versus no face masks, is even though we have evidence about what they do to droplets, we have very limited evidence about what they do to your actual chances of catching the thing".

He said that is "why there's a constant erring on the side of caution, it's not necessarily erring, but if you're going to make a mistake you need to make a mistake on the side of caution, not on the side of liberty".

Makes sense

is_that_so · 09-06-2020 02:55PM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

That message was lost.

I don't think it was, we just couldn't process it properly in March and April. What little we knew then suggested it was about the only path open to us. I see that Phillip Nolan told the COVID-19 committee that responses to a "second wave" would be different and probably more targeted first.

stephenjmcd · 09-06-2020 02:58PM

ZX7R wrote: »

Makes sense

Can still see in 3 weeks time if there's no spread, this being reduced to 1m or 1.5 for certain settings, hospitality, medical, public transport etc

ZX7R · 09-06-2020 03:00PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Can still see in 3 weeks time if there's no spread, this being reduced to 1m or 1.5 for certain settings, hospitality, medical, public transport etc

Do like in Spain make face coverings mandatory in public transport and shops , while reducing the 2meter distance.
Win win for everyone I would believe

stephenjmcd · 09-06-2020 03:00PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I don't think it was, we just couldn't process it properly in March and April. What little we knew then suggested it was about the only path open to us. I see that Phillip Nolan told the COVID-19 committee that responses to a "second wave" would be different and probably more targeted first.

Yup he also warned against using the term 2nd wave, said he prefers resurgence as the term but its was possible but not a guarantee of a another resurgence.

He said the same last week, cautioning against saying it was a forgone conclusion

_Kaiser_ · 09-06-2020 03:21PM

All those regulations from the IT article will do is cause already struggling businesses to fold completely as customers decide "ta fook am I gonna pay a premium for this nonsense!" and just stay home instead and have a house party. :rolleyes:

Most people are now getting out and about, the Gardai have lost the power to send them home for being naughty and exceeding arbitrary distance limits, and social distancing (excluding queues outside shops) seems to be minimal. Despite this, the numbers continue to fall as this virus seems to be burning out.

I won't be wearing masks, I don't use public transport anyway and I hate queuing as it is (and long before CV-19) so I will not be going to restaurants, pubs, hotels or other businesses where I'm asked to take ridiculous steps for no valid reason. I don't blame the company but I predict there'll be a lot of lobbying when the public continue to stay away.

leahyl · 09-06-2020 03:22PM

From listening to various people, I feel like De Gascun and Nolan have spoken the most sense through all this.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings