***** Motors chat - round 12 *****

I find the debate over whether Audis are premium cars on a level equivalent to BMW or Mercedes to be surprising. I find it impossible to think that anyone can drive a good A6 or A8, then compare with the equivalent 5/7 series or E/S class and think that they are not to the same class. I say this as someone who has one mid/higher range car from each of the three companies in my garage. If 'premium' is defined by luxury and driving characteristics, Audi are normally considered to be the field leader in the category of interior finish, Merc normally in technology, and BMW in driving, but it's a balance depending on what's important to you. I've found the quality of service/support at the dealer/service level from all three to be more or less equivalent (and noticeably better than the VW or Chevy I've owned)

It may be that Audi have the lowest 'quality' finish available in their lineup. The base entry diesel FWD A1 (or whatever you have in Europe, Audi doesn't go that small here) may well be a matter of people buying the car for the badge, and Audi may be willing to risk their badge reputation more than BMW in the 1-series or Merc in their A class in the interests of more sales. I'm not sure, I've never compared an A3 to a, say, Golf. Something like an A8 may well be merely a halo car for the the vast majority of car-buyers who are buying their lesser vehicles with the A8 in the background of the shop, but that doesn't make the A8 any less quality (or expensive).

Premium buyers don't care about what's in the lower-end of the scale. They may not even walk to that part of the show floor. I was personally astonished by how much less quality of a car the base A4 was that the dealership loaned me when my S4 was in service. I didn't even know Audi interiors could be so underwhelming until I was in it. However, I didn't go to the Audi dealer with my money for a non-premium experience car. I went specifically looking at a higher end, and I got it.

I submit that when looking at a company and determining if it's premium, one needs to start looking at vehicles which are beyond the price range of a lower "tier" competitor for an equivalent car. For example, the VW equivalent to an A6 is basically the Passat. I've owned both. Right now, the top trim Passat is $32,000, the SEL. The base model A6 around these parts starts at $55,000. Not only is it a lot more expensive, it is better in basically every single way. More technology, more power, better ride, better quality interior... The fact that the base A3 starts at $33,000 does not mean that its level of quality should be compared with the equivalently priced Passat. If you're in the market for a large family saloon, the A3's price and quality, even if both are identical to the Passat, is irrelevant.

RyanMGF wrote: »

yes, as a sweeping statement an Audi will feel better than an equivalent VW, which will in turn feel better than a Seat or Skoda, but honestly - who cares, the cars are all of a similar quality and will all likely last just as long as each other. An A3 isn’t better to the degree of its price difference between a Golf, for example.

I submit we have an example here of the subjective difference between how people look at cars. An Audi and VW and Skoda may all be built to the same build quality and all last as long as each other, but premium buyers are not just looking for a reliable way of getting from A to B. If so, we'd all be buying Hondas and the like. Consider an airplane flight, San Francisco to London. 12 hours, everyone gets there at the same time, it some will pay thousands and some merely hundreds. Why? Quality is far more than just how the car works in its driving function, a premium car is supposed to provide a subjective feeling to its owner which a non-premium car does not (As well as some objective benefits such as improved technolgies). If you do not believe that the premium experience, varying from the process of dropping your car off for service through just a contentedness of sitting in a just damned nice cabin is worth money, then absolutely, your last line above is perfectly valid. However, other people disagree. I bought the Passat to replace an A6. Objectively and subjectively both, I consider the Audi to have been the better car. Do I think it is better to the degree of the $20,000 price difference to a Passat? You may disagree, but I'm going to the Audi dealer, not the VW dealer for the next one. It was the fact that I couldn't afford a $50,000 car at the time which brought me to VW, not the fact that I thought it presented better value for money.

Augeo wrote: »

Surely a base A4 is 40% ish of the S4 price.

A4 starts here at $37,400, an S4 starts at $49,900.

Augeo wrote: »

Wow..... We're 42k v 76k & I'm surprised the s4 is not more over here TBH :pac:

Is it anything to do with the tax/registration in Ireland due to the twin-turbo V6?

Either that, or your base A4 is lower than our base A4. Compared to other small family sedans, I don't see any reason the S4 should be any higher. The C43 AMG starts at $55.9 for a similar engine. It's still a small car, and the engine isn't exactly a monster.