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Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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  • #7832
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Remember Greta Thunberg angrily saying "I should be in school!"

    The same media/government/officialdom establishment which gaslighted the world by shoving this unlovely child-demagogue in our faces then turns around and closes schools.


  • #7833
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭political analyst


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/our-warped-sense-of-perspective-bodes-ill-for-ireland-s-economy-1.4259285?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR3LFRe7aTEhd0hU50tEEsAnt1pkU2xEHBYS5bd4-9LN25V7X_XtfpA_ZH4

    Mark Paul wrote that routine detention of Irish citizens who were outside the Republic and have come home after the first wave of the pandemic subsided is beyond severe, that the law of averages says 97% or 98% of those held for 2 weeks would be health and that Ireland would be an outlier in the EU, even alongside Italy and Spain, both of whom have lifted their quarantines, which were never in "designated facilities" anyway.

    Mr Paul believes that:
    It was an extraordinary call from the chief medical officer that would crush any nascent return of the inbound or outbound travel industries. In the sphere of our civil liberties, it ranks easily among the most draconian proposals from a State official in our history. Yet almost nobody batted an eyelid at it. That fact alone is evidence that we may need to recalibrate our thinking when assessing how to manage risks from the virus. Otherwise, our society and economy will never function.

    The final paragraph is a powerful summary of Mr Paul's view.
    It is evident in the ongoing resistance to any small reopening of primary schools, the continued shuttering of cafes, restaurants and other businesses, even as they open up abroad, and in our blithe acceptance of the most cautious reopening in Europe. If we use sledgehammers to crack every nut we will never eat. This ingrained fear runs the risk of paralysing our society and economy.

    I agree with Mr Paul: Ireland has a warped sense of perspective. Life is full of risks.


  • #7834
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,420 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    political analyst wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/our-warped-sense-of-perspective-bodes-ill-for-ireland-s-economy-1.4259285?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR3LFRe7aTEhd0hU50tEEsAnt1pkU2xEHBYS5bd4-9LN25V7X_XtfpA_ZH4

    Mark Paul wrote that routine detention of Irish citizens who were outside the Republic and have come home after the first wave of the pandemic subsided is beyond severe, that the law of averages says 97% or 98% of those held for 2 weeks would be health and that Ireland would be an outlier in the EU, even alongside Italy and Spain, both of whom have lifted their quarantines, which were never in "designated facilities" anyway.

    Mr Paul believes that:



    The final paragraph is a powerful summary of Mr Paul's view.



    I agree with Mr Paul: Ireland has a warped sense of perspective. Life is full of risks.

    Edgelord "journalist" spouts absolute nonsense from the safety of his front room.

    Easy be one when your words have no real life consequences.

    Comparisons with other countries at different stages is next level ignorance.


  • #7835
    Rob A. Bank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Rob A. Bank


    fr336 wrote: »
    The 1m 2m thing confuses me...how does it help if someone sneezes, coughs or speaks loudly (or even softly) and you're in the vicinity eg the same aisle of a supermarket or even the next aisle? We have seen multiple studies showing the droplets can hang out in the air all around the "event" and for many hours afterwards. The distancing feels like a gimmick to show governments are doing something (that being said, I'll still be listening to the advice :pac:)

    The 1m droplet thing works fine when there is no breeze but it's better not to be downwind of an unmasked cough (or be shorter than the person who coughed).

    tos-humana-sin-viento.jpg?resize=696%2C404&ssl=1

    tos-humana-con-viento.jpg?resize=696%2C602&ssl=1

    From :- On coughing and airborne droplet transmission to humans in 'Physics of Fluids' 32, 053310 (2020); https://doi.org/10.1063/5.0011960


  • #7836
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    And the amount of idiots here that mock trump etc. At least he has conviction, varadkar is afraid of his own shadow... it's an unbearable country to live in, fear, scaremongering fearing, rte and the morons that run the place at every level. How many suicide reiayed deaths due to the virus, is dr nick, sorry, tony and the rte comedy channel reporting on that?

    No suicides at all. Not one due to the virus.
    Prove otherwise.


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  • #7837
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Spains cases look to have taken a pretty significant jump yesterday. Anyone know if there is an explanation for that or is that the start of something more worrying?


  • #7838
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    A good assessment here of varying options relating to restrictions. At least it is scientifically based.


    [/QUOTE]


  • #7839
    laurah591
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭laurah591


    PokeHerKing wrote: »
    Spains cases look to have taken a pretty significant jump yesterday. Anyone know if there is an explanation for that or is that the start of something more worrying?

    additional cases from Catalonia which had not been previouslyz published. Sorry dont have link


  • #7840
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,578 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    This blustery wind this last few day has made social distancing a non effective act of defence . One cough in a line of 30 is swirled around the whole line.


  • #7841
    the kelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    Rodin wrote: »
    No suicides at all. Not one due to the virus.
    Prove otherwise.


    How do we know? We don’t get told about anything other than Covid related deaths.

    Wherever your from, how many people died within the last 24 hours and what did they die from?


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  • #7842
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    the kelt wrote: »
    How do we know? We don’t get told about anything other than Covid related deaths.

    Because there is no evidence. Everything else is just idle speculation.


  • #7843
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    This blustery wind this last few day has made social distancing a non effective act of defence . One cough in a line of 30 is swirled around the whole line.

    We should all stay a mile apart so. Just to be safe


  • #7844
    the kelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    Rodin wrote: »
    Because there is no evidence. Everything else is just idle speculation.

    So I’ll ask again, whatever county your from, how many people died within the last 24 hours, what did they die from and were on any of them suicide?

    Generally suicide as a reason of death is not discussed or ou up in RIP.ie etc as cause of death. So how do you know, you say not one, how do you know?

    Do you know the cause of everyone’s death during the crisis seeing as you seem so sure not suicide?


  • #7845
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    the kelt wrote: »
    So I’ll ask again, whatever county your from, how many people died within the last 24 hours, what did they die from and were on any of them suicide?

    Generally suicide as a reason of death is not discussed or ou up in RIP.ie etc as cause of death. So how do you know, you say not one, how do you know?

    Do you know the cause of everyone’s death during the crisis seeing as you seem so sure not one is suicide?

    You have heard about the spaghetti monster?
    No one can definitively say that people have killed themselves because of the virus/lockdown.
    Of course it's POSSIBLE. But without amy evidence it can't be assumed to be true.


  • #7846
    ZX7R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    PokeHerKing wrote: »
    Spains cases look to have taken a pretty significant jump yesterday. Anyone know if there is an explanation for that or is that the start of something more worrying?

    They had a load of unreported deaths that were added yesterday


  • #7847
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    Pubs and restaurants in Germany re-opened this week. Any person who enters must provide full contact details and social distancing is maintained. Ours won’t open until August...

    I’m not pushed for pubs to open quickly personally but like the speed is questionable.
    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    That's Germany. They're at a different stage to it than we are and are by and large a relatively compliant bunch. I'd have significantly more faith in their willingness to do the right thing.
    Besides we should view the fact we are several weeks behind these countries as a good thing. It allows us to see how the relaxing of restrictions will go; is there a spike? Do they have to lockdown again? What measures work/don't work!? We can learn from what they do rather than going gung-ho into the wrong thing and end up back in the same spot!
    Boggles wrote: »
    Of course there is.

    Germany's methods are not new, they don't have to adapt to anything. Apart from maybe less people.

    I've been in dozens of pubs in Germany never have I seen dribbling drunk simpletons 10 deep screaming for more drink in the nightly beat the clock farce.

    'Ah but sure it will be different now', it won't 2 pints in and Covid will be forgotten about.


    Just on hat note, I'm going to copy my post from earlier today

    peasant wrote: »
    Just FYI ...

    In Germany there are 50 people in quarantine after seven people got infected during a single restaurant visit.

    Restrictions were eased there on the 11th of May

    https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/coronavirus-50-menschen-in-quarantaene-nach-ausbruch-in-niedersaechsischem-restaurant-a-aca463ed-16d9-4fa5-85c6-5aa8ec836fc4

    This happened despite a hygiene and distancing protocol in place that the German restaurants association says makes infection impossible.


  • #7848
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,578 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Where do countries borrow money? UK and USA borrowing trillions, from who? China? Saudi's ?


  • #7849
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/suicide-leading-cause-for-over-300-lockdown-deaths-in-india-says-study/amp_articleshow/75519279.cms


  • #7850
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/pick-up-the-phone-to-loved-ones-urges-man-after-grandfathers-suicide


  • #7851
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1286065/lockdown-end-coronavirus-california-donald-trump-gavin-newsom-suicide-death-toll/amp


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  • #7852
    the kelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    Rodin wrote: »
    You have heard about the spaghetti monster?
    No one can definitively say that people have killed themselves because of the virus/lockdown.
    Of course it's POSSIBLE. But without amy evidence it can't be assumed to be true.

    Russell’s teapot, spaghetti monster etc etc

    Unless they left a suicide note attributing it but again we cannot say definitively they have or haven’t but there has been correspondence from charities such as aLone for example that there’s been a significant increase in callers particularly older people with suicidal thoughts etc.

    Now your answer will be there’s no proof any of those callers committed suicide so therefore no evidence etc fair enough.

    Life however is very rarely that black and white, as someone who’s family has being affected by suicide I can tell ye the last thing we wanted was it known to the outside world what the cause of death really was.

    Due to the increase in calls to help lines etc and the reason above I think it’s naive to believe there’s been no suicides due to the restrictions but I’m guessing because it won’t be listed as an official reason because Covid is the only game in town it doesn’t count.

    But you’re right, no stats to back it up like there are Covid stats every day but then again no other death apart from Covid seems to matter these days.


  • #7853
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.mentalhealthtoday.co.uk/blog/crisis-care/evidence-that-lockdown-is-causing-extreme-mental-suffering-and-suicidal-crisis


  • #7854
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    peasant wrote: »
    Just on hat note, I'm going to copy my post from earlier today
    The majority of restaurants in the city in South Germany where my brother lives have stopped indoor dining and moved outdoors. Cork City is already planning on doing this, yet have to wait until August.


  • #7855
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://mises.org/power-market/mayor-kane-questions-lockdown-after-utterly-shocking-suicide-spike


  • #7856
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.firstpost.com/health/coronavirus-outbreak-168-of-326-non-coronavirus-deaths-till-9-may-were-suicides-finds-report-covid-19-lockdown-may-cost-us-dearer-than-economy-warn-psychiatrists-8357451.html/amp


  • #7857
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-suicide-rates-uk-mental-health-support-a9451086.html?amp


  • #7858
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Boggles wrote: »
    Edgelord "journalist" spouts absolute nonsense from the safety of his front room.

    Easy be one when your words have no real life consequences.

    Comparisons with other countries at different stages is next level ignorance.

    Have you anything to say about the consequences that the lockdown has for people who are either in pain or are dying or at risk of dying because they can't get necessary surgery?

    As Ian O'Doherty wrote, to say that the damage to the economy is worth it if one life is saved is like saying there should be no travel by motor vehicle allowed because of the risk of people being knocked down.

    We take risks throughout our lives, i.e. walking across the road, travelling by motor vehicle or airliner.


  • #7859
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Where do countries borrow money? UK and USA borrowing trillions, from who? China? Saudi's ?

    People. Your pension fund.


  • #7860
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,147 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/nphet-warn-second-wave-coronavirus-18296363


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  • #7861
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    growleaves wrote: »
    https://www.mentalhealthtoday.co.uk/blog/crisis-care/evidence-that-lockdown-is-causing-extreme-mental-suffering-and-suicidal-crisis

    That article rings true sadly, really makes a lot of sense - particularly the bit under 'Fighters' where they make the point that because this virus is being compared to a war where we all need to stay strong and in our particular case here in Ireland 'Hold Firm', people that are struggling are more reluctant than ever to seek help. Thinking that they will let the side down, or that they will be taking up resources that are needed to fight the big fight.

    There will likely never be actual stats for suicides as a result of restrictions, but you'd want to be living in a bubble to not acknowledge the clear and present danger of mental health deterioration. Unacceptable casualties.


This discussion has been closed.
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