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Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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Comments

  • #7472
    bettyoleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭bettyoleary


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you test negative on admission, are placed in isolation until confirmed negative, only surrounded by other patients who are confirmed negative and staff wearing appropriate PPE. How can you be at risk of spreading it if you don't have it?
    But we are not talking about that are we? We are talking about discharging patients who have had or still have Covid back into nursing homes.


  • #7473
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bekker wrote: »
    Do all staff in hospital, including cleaners, food servers, wear PPE including masks, whenever in vicinity of patients, including in corridors?

    Yes, that is the guidance at the moment.


  • #7474
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bettyoleary wrote: »
    But we are not talking about that are we? We are talking about discharging patients who have had or still have Covid back into nursing homes.

    Did you read the article?

    "In correspondence seen by the Irish Independent, a consultant in one Dublin Hospital told a colleague to inform nursing home operators that negative swabs are only required for "post-Covid patients".


  • #7475
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    Yemeni health system 'collapsed' - RTE

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0522/1140005-yemen/


  • #7476
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Did you read the article?

    "In correspondence seen by the Irish Independent, a consultant in one Dublin Hospital told a colleague to inform nursing home operators that negative swabs are only required for "post-Covid patients".

    So, by that token, people who had not received their results yet weren't supposed to be released as they could still have been positive. That's without taking into account that you don't know if someone is positive unless you test him/her (and I'm not talking about false negatives/positives, here).


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  • #7477
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes, that is the guidance at the moment.

    One more thing, I only saw this now. This is the guidance at the moment. What was it like then, when the patients were discharged into the nursing homes?


  • #7478
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    New Home wrote: »
    So, by that token, people who had not received their results yet weren't supposed to be released as they could still have been positive. That's without taking into account that you don't know if someone is positive unless you test him/her (and I'm not talking about false negatives/positives, here).

    You test everybody on admission. No covid + patient would be discharged to a nursing home with out at least two negative results.


  • #7479
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Prof Nolan said he simply doesn't believe the claim that for every one symptomatic person with Covid-19, there are five or ten more walking around with the virus completely unaware of the fact.

    Something about these antibody tests suggesting half the population has contracted the virus just doesn't add up. The same figures for antibody tests seem to be all over the place from country to country to a crazy degree (the UK figures suggest that the rate of infection outside London is 5% at most)

    Yeah I’m not sure I believe it either really.

    Is there any other virus that causes extreme symptoms in some people and then absolutely no symptoms in others?


  • #7480
    bekker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bekker


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes, that is the guidance at the moment.
    Yes, that is the guidance at the moment.

    That is part of the problem, 'guidance' is not 'yes they do'.

    Have fairly extensive experience of hospitals over a number of years, including 2 readmissions caused by being prematurely discharged.

    Know from experience that adherence to, and implementation of SOPs is variable and mainly down to nurse in charge of shift.

    That problem, allied to non-testing of hospital staff to identify those who are asymptomatic, rather undermines the position you advocate.

    The HSE has had plenty of time to put halfway-house centres in place and they haven't.

    They're still bound by siloed thinking 'discharge - someone else's problem'.


  • #7481
    wadacrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    NegativeCreep wrote: »
    Yeah I’m not sure I believe it either really.

    Is there any other virus that causes extreme symptoms in some people and then absolutely no symptoms in others?

    Nearly every virus behaves like this.


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  • #7482
    wadacrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1263810622430511106


  • #7483
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You test everybody on admission. No covid + patient would be discharged to a nursing home with out at least two negative results.

    What if they caught it during their stay in hospital and were pre-symptomatic?

    Also, didn't they mention that some patients were discharged while still waiting for the results? Or did I read that incorrectly?


  • #7484
    bettyoleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭bettyoleary


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Did you read the article?

    "In correspondence seen by the Irish Independent, a consultant in one Dublin Hospital told a colleague to inform nursing home operators that negative swabs are only required for "post-Covid patients".
    Why are nursing homes closed to visitors?


  • #7485
    Neamhshuntasach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The idea is that they will be isolated for two weeks post discharge. Also, could i reverse it and say that a relative of the patient who died of HAP in hospital would possibly going mental in your scenario.

    Read 2nd sentence. From nursing home point of view.

    Reject accepting someone with possible Covid 19 who will have family members going mental at a hospital if they get HAP. Or accept someone who could end up transmitting something to multiple people who all have family members going mental at the nursing home.


  • #7486
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    wadacrack wrote: »
    Nearly every virus behaves like this.

    Does it? I’m genuinely asking because I have no idea.


  • #7487
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    NegativeCreep wrote: »
    Does it? I’m genuinely asking because I have no idea.

    I'm not sure about every virus, but was doing some reading recently and turns out flu can be asymptomatic in 50% of cases, usually due to existing immunity. It's thought that asymptomatic people shed the virus less, but still can transmit it.


  • #7488
    Onesea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭Onesea


    ek motor wrote: »
    Yemeni health system 'collapsed' - RTE

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0522/1140005-yemen/

    Media suddenly care about Yemen. Where was the spotlight when they were getting blown to pieces by outside forces for past year or two.


  • #7489
    Onesea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭Onesea


    Neamhshuntasach wrote: »
    Read 2nd sentence. From nursing home point of view.

    Reject accepting someone with possible Covid 19 who will have family members going mental at a hospital if they get HAP. Or accept someone who could end up transmitting something to multiple people who all have family members going mental at the nursing home.

    Or give them one person to take care of them in either a private hospital or a hotel. Government can fork out a few quid on them, they deserve it.


  • #7490
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    I'm not sure about every virus, but was doing some reading recently and turns out flu can be asymptomatic in 50% of cases, usually due to existing immunity. It's thought that asymptomatic people shed the virus less, but still can transmit it.

    Be great if that was the case here and we had a good bit of immunity around. No guarantee though. Just wait and see.


  • #7491
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    I'm not sure about every virus, but was doing some reading recently and turns out flu can be asymptomatic in 50% of cases, usually due to existing immunity.
    I read the figure is closer to a third across the board. Some people never get the flu. My dad never did. Now he almost certainly was exposed to it(my mum caught everything going), but he never became symptomatic or so mildly he passed it off as a bad nights sleep. I've only had it the once that I know of, the Swine variety and cleared it over a weekend. If that was the flu I got in January I cleared that over a weekend too, yet two mates were felled by it and were fecked for many weeks with the need for steroids and antibiotics. People differ.

    Covid19 is somewhat unusual at least on the surface, in that it appears to be asymptomatic and stay that way for quite a percentage, a mild flu like dose for most and yet viscously serious for others. But again if you look at the serious cases they're to be expected as far as the usual fatality risks go. Old people, more men than women, the poor, the already chronically ill. It is not killing perfectly healthy 25 year olds, or vanishingly rarely. So rarely they're the exception that proves the rule. So it's not so unusual.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #7492
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    even the dreaded spanish flu had a silent 20% carrier number. The reason we know this is because it was in the USA, Europe and even india, all within the same week at one time or another. As it killed millions quiet quickly, the only way it could have spread was asymptomatic carriers, even in 1919.


  • #7493
    bekker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bekker


    There are some interesting ongoing studies suggesting common cold acquired immunity affecting impact of COVID-19, which would neatly explain the essentially non-susceptible children, and susceptible elderly, being the inverse of their frequency of exposure to common cold infections.

    The caveat being Prof. Sikoras political (non-party) advocacy for having turned the Covid corner, and fast lifting of restrictions.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1263810622430511106

    He has also been on of those hit by one of those YouTube's arbitrary, unexplained and unexplainable, removals.

    YouTube appears to be removing videos after cursory attention from so called fact-checking organisations, who do not in fact fact-check but simply don't like non-mainstream but reasonable inferences being drawn from scientific studies. While I don't know past history of interviewer, suspect same content via BBC or SKY would not have been taken down.

    Personally think Prof. Sikoras is being uber positive, but that's no reason to suppress his opinions.


  • #7494
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    wadacrack wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1263810622430511106

    I wonder if patient 0 in wuhan had a cold and got infected with this new pathogen and then the two of them, the cold and the pathogen mixed together to form this new infection?


  • #7495
    Hmmzis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    I'm not sure about every virus, but was doing some reading recently and turns out flu can be asymptomatic in 50% of cases, usually due to existing immunity. It's thought that asymptomatic people shed the virus less, but still can transmit it.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6518513/

    The 50% for flu is considered on the low side, from the above.
    If you look at the first graph it shows that most viral infections are in the 70%+ range for asymptomatic infections.


  • #7496
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bekker wrote: »
    There are some interesting ongoing studies suggesting common cold acquired immunity affecting impact of COVID-19, which would neatly explain the essentially non-susceptible children, and susceptible elderly, being the inverse of their frequency of exposure to common cold infections.

    The caveat being Prof. Sikoras political (non-party) advocacy for having turned the Covid corner, and fast lifting of restrictions.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1263810622430511106

    He has also been on of those hit by one of those YouTube's arbitrary, unexplained and unexplainable, removals.

    YouTube appears to be removing videos after cursory attention from so called fact-checking organisations, who do not in fact fact-check but simply don't like non-mainstream but reasonable inferences being drawn from scientific studies. While I don't know past history of interviewer, suspect same content via BBC or SKY would not have been taken down.

    Personally think Prof. Sikoras is being uber positive, but that's no reason to suppress his opinions.


    I saw one of the big wigs of youtube interviewed and she said the basis for which videos are removed would be if info/advice runs contrary to WHO advice, it's therefore deemed misinformation...if you can believe that tripe.
    I'm not saying lets all get David IKE T shirts with matching hats but as Ive said before, how far against the contemporary grain was Edward Jenner???

    he'd have been imprisoned on that basis.


  • #7497
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    My grandmother in a nursing home in Cork now has MRSA. Incredibly sad about this and in shock that with what are supposed to be carefully managed settings with no visitors, these preventable illnesses are still doing the rounds. It's quite mad, especially with the increased awareness around PPE and constant updating of clean technique training. She probably got it from one of the agency staff who has come in.

    The biggest tragedy is that she has late stage cancer so they're not telling her because this would only add to her stress. I can understand the logic but it's so cruel that she's in so much pain, getting worse every day until her dying one and not knowing why. I wouldn't treat my cat this way at the end of their life and I know what choice she would make if it were available.


  • #7498
    McGiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    is_that_so wrote: »
    And what exactly is this going to help us with? Harris is no expert, he's a mouthpiece and the CMO is part of the very large group in NPHET, which makes the recommendations.
    Are you asking me what is government scrutiny going to help you with?

    To see where you really stand?
    To see how the government really manages the country?
    To keep them to account instead fawning to them?

    This is called a civic society.

    By your and media talk it's all rosy and grand. And we should just sing praises of the government as the media do. The gov performance is mediocre at best.

    If you don't raise awareness, they will keep pretending they manage other aspects of the state equally well. Scrutiny and awareness are crucial for progress. Being sheep, closing one's eyes and 'tis grand attitude don't generate progress.


  • #7499
    antietam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 359 ✭✭antietam1


    They used to say if you can get out of bed you've not got the flu.


  • #7500
    McGiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    bekker wrote: »
    Yes, that is the guidance at the moment.

    That is part of the problem, 'guidance' is not 'yes they do'.

    Have fairly extensive experience of hospitals over a number of years, including 2 readmissions caused by being prematurely discharged.

    Know from experience that adherence to, and implementation of SOPs is variable and mainly down to nurse in charge of shift.

    That problem, allied to non-testing of hospital staff to identify those who are asymptomatic, rather undermines the position you advocate.

    The HSE has had plenty of time to put halfway-house centres in place and they haven't.

    They're still bound by siloed thinking 'discharge - someone else's problem'.
    I had the misfortune to end up in hospital 2 weeks ago and I can tell you that this is bogus.

    In the ward, 95% staff had masks, some consultants didn't! And in other units I had to go to (X-ray, sonography) the technicians didn't have masks at all, <50% at best.
    Outside of the ward - <50%, support staff had no masks. None of the porters who moved me to the places where tests were done wore masks. I had asked one porter why he didn't wear a mask and he said some nonsense and mentioned he was also moving Covid patients. Brilliant!


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  • #7501
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    antietam1 wrote: »
    They used to say if you can get out of bed you've not got the flu.
    Which is old wives tale stuff. I had a confirmed case of swine flu. Felt weak and achy, but never took to the bed and was able to function albeit below par. The dose in January ditto(with extra dry coughing).

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



This discussion has been closed.
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