Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings

bb1234567 · 22-05-2020 01:24AM

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

why does this get trotted out every time?
what's the current suicide rate in Ireland? what might it conceivably rise to in the next year or two? every death is tragic, but the numbers are pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

There is an alarmingly high number of suicides in Ireland for size of our country, 352 last year, it had reduced greatly in recent decades, in 2001 509 people took their lives in ireland which is shocking

The increase during times of economic hardship being unsurprisingly massively hyped up by posters on here, during the very height of the recession suicide rates increase by 15% in Ireland, so about 50 more suicides per year than the average during recession.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/suicide-rate-rose-15-during-height-of-recession-1.2800500

jibber5000 · 22-05-2020 01:33AM

MadYaker wrote: »

There are loads of idiots posting in this thread who will tell you that lockdown was never needed in the first place and that the models were wrong :rolleyes:

This whole crisis has cemented my belief that most people are idiots.

Show me one post on here where someone said a lockdown wasn't needed?

We had so little information about the virus that we had to do everything to avoid the worst case scenario, hence the "flatten the curve" motto which was solely to avoid our hospitals becoming overcrowded.

As we learnt more about the virus we discovered the worst case scenario thankfully wasn't going to occur. But instead of adapting our approach to mirror this change we rigidly followed our initial plan. At some point, without an announcement, the goal posts changed to eridicating the virus completely by maintaining a lockdown. We now have academics advising us to "crush the curve" by closing the country off until a vaccine is found.

All the while we are plunging ourselves deeper into a massive recession and you're calling people with legitimate concerns "idiots"?

Pathetic really.

MadYaker · 22-05-2020 01:50AM

jibber5000 wrote: »

Show me one post on here where someone said a lockdown wasn't needed?

We had so little information about the virus that we had to do everything to avoid the worst case scenario, hence the "flatten the curve" motto which was solely to avoid our hospitals becoming overcrowded.

As we learnt more about the virus we discovered the worst case scenario thankfully wasn't going to occur. But instead of adapting our approach to mirror this change we rigidly followed our initial plan. At some point, without an announcement, the goal posts changed to eridicating the virus completely by maintaining a lockdown. We now have academics advising us to "crush the curve" by closing the country off until a vaccine is found.

All the while we are plunging ourselves deeper into a massive recession and you're calling people with legitimate concerns "idiots"?

Pathetic really.

What are you on about? We are starting to open up and the virus is still in the community. Who's closing off the country until a vaccine is found? That won't be until next year. Leo is saying he wants international travel to resume this summer.

The reason the worst case scenario didn't happen was because the lockdown slowed the spread of the virus right down.

Here's one for you:

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I think every normal country bar us knows that lockdowns have very little use if any. Everyday that Sweden doesnt report 10 000 dead proves this.

Tokyo · 22-05-2020 01:57AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes Gemma, everyone's a 'monger' and it's all a conspiracy to make everyone's life a misery.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No Gemma, I'm fine.

Mod: @Kermit.de.frog - this would be a very good time to remember that your account is still on probation. Quit the smartarsery.

MrDavid1976 · 22-05-2020 06:45AM

It seems that the Taoiseach was knocked back again yesterday by the “Government” on his idea that may some parts of the plan could be fast tracked....the numbers again are the problem. Please bear in mind less 2000 people in the country have the virus.

Prof Nolan said efforts to suppress the disease had largely been successful, with the reproduction number estimated to be between 0.45 and 0.63. This is an estimate of how many people an infected person will pass the virus onto.
“Indicators of the disease are very good, with all major indicators either declining or stable,” Prof Nolan said. However, he warned that an increase in the R number would see a rapid escalation of cases. He said the average number of new cases per day had fallen from 559 on April 16th to 72 yesterday, while the numbers in hospital, averaged over the previous five days, had fallen from 865 to 380.

Supported
Asked about comments by the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, that some measures could be fast tracked if the data supported such a decision, Deputy Chief Medical Officer Dr Ronan Glynn said such a move was possible but added: “I’m not seeing anything in particular that would lead me to believe that we would markedly change from the general direction of that roadmap.”

He said if people stop adhering to public health advice, “there is always a risk that things could go in the opposite direction . . . it is very important people do not become complacent.The R number is very finely balanced at any point in time. It would not take much at all to go from 0.5 to 1.5 and have us right back where we were two weeks ago.””

Dr Glynn said NPHET would on Friday discuss measures to help children and parents, but would not be drawn on the detail of the schemes.

Penfailed · 22-05-2020 06:53AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I think as many people as possible should lobby TD's and elected officials at this stage.

Have you? I suggested this weeks ago on here to all those that were clearly upset with the roadmap. It seemingly fell on deaf ears.

pjohnson · 22-05-2020 06:55AM

Penfailed wrote: »

Have you? I suggested this weeks ago on here to all those that were clearly upset with the roadmap. It seemingly fell on deaf ears.

As with most revolutions organised on boards. Once you step outside of the initial thread its total silence.

Penfailed · 22-05-2020 06:59AM

robbiezero wrote: »

Ah here.
You haven't heard much about austerity for the last 10 years?
What do you think has been the main cause of the housing, education, public transport, health crises, rural stagnation etc.
The crash of 2008 will reverberate for many years to come.

All I've heard in this thread is that the economy has been booming with great GDP numbers and now we're screwed.

MrDavid1976 · 22-05-2020 07:12AM

Penfailed wrote: »

Have you? I suggested this weeks ago on here to all those that were clearly upset with the roadmap. It seemingly fell on deaf ears.

Many people now have the idea that everything is fine and the Government/Nphet doing a very good job. And in many ways they did do a good job, but getting us out is still way too slow - that is the big problem for many here.

I think that pressure on politicians is beginning to bear fruit. The narrative in the last week has changed to the economy and there have been more references to mental health issues etc. However, two key Ministers are hopelessly out of their depth on this one (Harris and Humphreys).

We have had two ridiculous situations this week with the “two hour limit” (thankfully addressed quickly) and the warnings that DIY is only for absolutely essential cases (the economy is either opening or not) - a better message here would be to have appealed to common sense.

They are also seeing the downsides of project fear on the way back up where interest groups will be highlighting safety and this is where we are going to have big challenges. Are people prepared for a massive increase in the cost of childcare and limited capacity? Are people prepared for blended learning in schools whereby children go in every second day and remotely join for the other day - which parent will be staying at home? Are offices prepared to take away desks? Are there HR protocols in place to send people home, or insist on testing?

the kelt · 22-05-2020 07:15AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/our-warped-sense-of-perspective-bodes-ill-for-ireland-s-economy-1.4259285

Lockdown was the right thing to do, unquestionably and was done well.

But this drawn out easing of restrictions makes no sense to me, people say oh we might be able to move quicker through it, we won’t, we all know that, we couldn’t even fully start phase one.

So why does ours have to be so much longer than everyone else? Nit just even a bit longer, a lot longer? Let’s see how everyone else is going isn’t actually an answer, it’s a cowardly excuse or are we just obsessed with not being able to think for ourselves which is becoming increasing evident and worrying.

He’s right in particular in regards to the 2nd last paragraph, some can’t get enough of the lockdown, they really can’t, you can see it in their posts, straight away revert to the worst case scenario and not that it may happen it will happen, that existence must be miserable.

growleaves · 22-05-2020 07:29AM

Doctors push Trump to quickly reopen country in letter organized by conservatives

Gold wrote the shutdown has adversely impacted Americans due to missed cancer screenings, canceled dental appointments and spikes in mental health problems.

“We are alarmed at what appears to be the lack of consideration for the future health of our patients. The downstream health effects of deteriorating a level are being massively under-estimated and under-reported. This is an order of magnitude error,” the letter says.

“The millions of casualties of a continued shutdown will be hiding in plain sight, but they will be called alcoholism, homelessness, suicide, heart attack, stroke, or kidney failure,” it says. “In youths it will be called financial instability, unemployment, despair, drug addiction, unplanned pregnancies, poverty, and abuse.”

22-05-2020 07:30AM

While I can’t access the full article the headline says it all- Gardaí warn new Covid rules can’t be enforced.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-warn-new-covid-rules-cant-be-enforced-39225512.html

We can’t be molly coddled forever- it’s about time society takes personal responsibility - we’ve been advised often enough what to do - we can’t rely totally on the Gardaí and why should we?

lawrencesummers · 22-05-2020 07:32AM

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Trust me if you had a bad enough toothache or any sort of damage you'd do anything for a dentist. I really don't see how any sane person can believe dentists aren't necessary other than sour grapes.

So we agree on something, they are necessary for certain things, but a lot of the work dentist do isn’t essential to the current climate.

Polar101 · 22-05-2020 07:51AM

the kelt wrote: »

Lockdown was the right thing to do, unquestionably and was done well.

But this drawn out easing of restrictions makes no sense to me, people say oh we might be able to move quicker through it, we won’t, we all know that, we couldn’t even fully start phase one.

I don't think there's much point in delaying stages after the third one, if the situation is pretty much under control at the time.

Not even Varadkar rules that out completely.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0521/1139726-varadkar-covid-roadmap/
"Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said phases in the road map for reopening society and business will only be fast-tracked if the data says it is "safe to do so"."

I think it will also depend on how long it takes for the new government to be formed.. so far it's taking bloody ages, but the talks can't go on for much longer.

growleaves · 22-05-2020 07:57AM

RobitTV wrote: »

Well wouldn't it be nice to know why and how taxpayers money is spent?

The only people who will be disagreeing with what i just said is those getting the 350 euro a week who were getting paid less before.

Its as much a bribe as it is a welfare payment. To maintain support for the lockdown.

So the usual objections to welfare spending don't really apply.

robbiezero · 22-05-2020 08:16AM

Penfailed wrote: »

Have you? I suggested this weeks ago on here to all those that were clearly upset with the roadmap. It seemingly fell on deaf ears.

How do you know? Did you expect to cc'ed on peoples email to TDs?

CruelSummer · 22-05-2020 08:17AM

The article in the Independent this morning highlights the Gardai having to turn back people who booked a round of golf living for eg. living 6km away from the club instead of 5, it also says the new regulations are not enforceable, and are more guidelines. Not sure why that is.

LiquidZeb · 22-05-2020 08:17AM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So we agree on something, they are necessary for certain things, but a lot of the work dentist do isn’t essential to the current climate.

Oh god, just think whatever you want.

CruelSummer · 22-05-2020 08:19AM

Penfailed wrote: »

Have you? I suggested this weeks ago on here to all those that were clearly upset with the roadmap. It seemingly fell on deaf ears.

Glad you suggested it then, I remember reading it, it was a good idea.

Jackman25 · 22-05-2020 08:21AM

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: @Kermit.de.frog - this would be a very good time to remember that your account is still on probation. Quit the smartarsery.

Still on probation? After 5 years and almost 15K posts. What did he do?

JRant · 22-05-2020 08:22AM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

It seems that the Taoiseach was knocked back again yesterday by the “Government” on his idea that may some parts of the plan could be fast tracked....the numbers again are the problem. Please bear in mind less 2000 people in the country have the virus.

Prof Nolan said efforts to suppress the disease had largely been successful, with the reproduction number estimated to be between 0.45 and 0.63. This is an estimate of how many people an infected person will pass the virus onto.
“Indicators of the disease are very good, with all major indicators either declining or stable,” Prof Nolan said. However, he warned that an increase in the R number would see a rapid escalation of cases. He said the average number of new cases per day had fallen from 559 on April 16th to 72 yesterday, while the numbers in hospital, averaged over the previous five days, had fallen from 865 to 380.

Supported
Asked about comments by the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, that some measures could be fast tracked if the data supported such a decision, Deputy Chief Medical Officer Dr Ronan Glynn said such a move was possible but added: “I’m not seeing anything in particular that would lead me to believe that we would markedly change from the general direction of that roadmap.”

He said if people stop adhering to public health advice, “there is always a risk that things could go in the opposite direction . . . it is very important people do not become complacent.The R number is very finely balanced at any point in time. It would not take much at all to go from 0.5 to 1.5 and have us right back where we were two weeks ago.””

Dr Glynn said NPHET would on Friday discuss measures to help children and parents, but would not be drawn on the detail of the schemes.

So Dr Glynn and NPHET are going to start discussing measures that will effect many parents in the country but doesn't feel the need to let the country know what these grand plans are. That right there is everything that is wrong about this current situation condensed down into a single sentence.

CruelSummer · 22-05-2020 08:29AM

JRant wrote: »

So Dr Glynn and NPHET are going to start discussing measures that will effect many parents in the country but doesn't feel the need to let the country know what these grand plans are. That right there is everything that is wrong about this current situation condensed down into a single sentence.

Exactly, what are they discussing and why? Have they any highly qualified people who work with children discussing with them? Or will it be the case once again...sure they’re only children, they’ll go along with whatever we suggest...
I’ve said it so many times on this thread, the impact this time will have on children is going to be huge. Think of 8 weeks and counting for a young child, think of how long that seems to them and how this will impact their development as a result.
The icing on the cake re damage to our children will be if they start will all this absolute nonsense in September of pods, social distancing, no consistent teacher, it’s completely unworkable.
It was heartbreaking to see some meet this week and hear of their loneliness during this time, their utter joy at being given an hour with a playmate.

lawrencesummers · 22-05-2020 08:47AM

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Oh god, just think whatever you want.

If some narcissist doesn’t get their teeth whitened for a few months the world won’t stop spinning.

Dentists should probably have been told that they can open for emergency Essential procedures only under strict protocols but there is nobody to enforce it and compliance and insurance would have been an issue.

Penfailed · 22-05-2020 08:51AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Glad you suggested it then, I remember reading it, it was a good idea.

So...have you? All those on this thread castigating the current caretaker government are screaming into the void unless they actually do something about it. Lobbying elected reps would appear to be the best/only way to do it. Spouting off on Boards for 'thanks' achieves nothing.

MrDavid1976 · 22-05-2020 08:57AM

Penfailed wrote: »

So...have you? All those on this thread castigating the current caretaker government are screaming into the void unless they actually do something about it. Lobbying elected reps would appear to be the best/only way to do it. Spouting off on Boards for 'thanks' achieves nothing.

It is actually one of the strengths of our political system that our politicians are quite responsive. And they do take account of what people are writing to them about. This issue is sensitive as it could be political suicide to go against medical advice. That is the easy option. But if enough people are highlighting issues particularly in respect to other health issues and the economy the politicians have a degree of cover.

Ginger n Lemon · 22-05-2020 08:58AM

US has recorded 1,286 deaths yesterday from covid.

Population of 331,000,000.

Covid is indeed on the way out, not because of lockdowns, not because of law enforcement breaking up groups of 3 or 4 people or people aged 5-55 are staying at home as much as possible, but because of hand washing, social distancing and more importantly change in human behaviour.

Penfailed · 22-05-2020 09:02AM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

It is actually one of the strengths of our political system that our politicians are quite responsive. And they do take account of what people are writing to them about. This issue is sensitive as it could be political suicide to go against medical advice. That is the easy option. But if enough people are highlighting issues particularly in respect to other health issues and the economy the politicians have a degree of cover.

Yep! That's why I suggested it.

Ginger n Lemon · 22-05-2020 09:08AM

These are the f*ing people we should clap for

"Kerry consultants resign from Covid-19 deal

At least nine consultants at a private hospital in Co Kerry have tendered resignation letters from the HSE’s short-term Covid-19 contract over their disquiet at how the State’s takeover of such hospitals has panned out.

It is thought that many private consultants across the country are unhappy with the situation due to low hospital occupancy and problems with continuity of care for private patients, and are now moving to express their dissatisfaction in more concrete terms."

“It sends a message to the Department of Health that if they were thinking of extending this thing until Christmas, then none of these consultants would be involved,” the doctor said."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/kerry-consultants-resign-from-covid-19-deal-1001041.html

Who can possibly support this lockdown or this incompetent government anymore?? They did good job? Would you wake up and smell the coffee.

Leo & Co will go down as the worst decision makers this country ever had

RobitTV · 22-05-2020 09:21AM

This cannot continue all the way till August. Is Leo or anyone willing to even give us some more information about what needs to happen for the acceleration of the phased plan to take place? we have made a huge amount of progress and i don't understand what level they will be satisfied with anymore.

The time has come for people to speak out and contact local TD's on email, facebook and calling them. We need hundreds of people to do this per constituency. We need people to start speaking with friends and family and try to give people the facts instead of the scaremongering stories that you hear daily.

We can't sit here twiddling our thumbs until August. The game is up.

Penfailed · 22-05-2020 09:22AM

greenfield21 wrote: »

We were all laughing at the folks int the US protesting lockdowns now it looks like we're all going to join them. Nearly everyone sneering at them a while back on here.

Nah. I'll not be joining...and it doesn't look like we all will. This thread is a bit of an echo chamber. There are very few dissenting voices.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings