Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

cozar wrote: »

do any of the teacher posters think that repeat students will be accommodated in any way.?

It's a trickey one indeed.

• 5th years will be competing with a good few thousand 2020 6th years next year.
• Will these 6th year repeats be required to attend every day as current 5th years are.
• A lot would be bored out of their skulls doing the same course again. Would they have to do new material?
• Would they be allowed special concessions to come and go as they pleased. Wouldn't wash well with the other students or maybe they'd just get used to it.
• What about organising separate timetables. Like a part-time 7th year!!!
• don't forget there's plenty of airspace for a good old "my 19 year old 7th year son was given out to by a principal for having long hair" Annual Joe Duffy slot.

I'd say the best thing for all concerned is to have the 2020 6th year do their written exams ASAP.

Purefrank128 wrote: »

Just for clarity, students doing the 2020 exams in, say, November '20 or January '21 are NOT repeat students.

I was'nt clear in my post, i was asking about students who did the leaving cert last year and are repeating this year, and if their results from last year would be taken into account when predicting grades.

History Queen wrote: »

Official instructions still not issued so we can't answer with any certainty. Have you looked at the FAQ on the education website?

it probably will be covered in the clarifications to schools this week, but i was just wondering on teachers thoughts on this. nothing really in the FAQs.

Comer1 wrote: »

Genuinely confused as to why people are attacking this poster.

What is the relevance of what this poster is or isn't doing online? If fact, if this person is doing nothing (which I do not believe to be the case) it just further backs up the point that some teachers are doing very little to nothing.

In my daughters school (she's in 6th year) three out of seven of her teachers were doing practically nothing up to the cutoff.

In my own school I know of quite a few teachers who are doing practically nothing and I'm sure there are many more like that that I do not know about.

And before you all start asking me what I'm doing, I spend all day drinking cheap Lidl beer watching The Chase and Tipping Point.

Well to be honest, she claimed that no one in her school is doing anything, and that there were loads of people on this thread doing nothing, and she's claiming the same on threads on the Current Affairs forum. She's spent the last few weeks trashing teachers on several threads which is a little unusual for a teacher. She was basically asked 'do you use teams or google?' and then started claiming that it was personal information and doesn't share that kind of thing on social media, and then claimed a regular poster on here was being creepy for asking her and she played the gender card. All I can say is that if she behaves like that in her staffroom, then the problems she has posted about in the past may not be as she describes.

Playing the gender card when asked what software you are using online does a huge disservice to women who are actively experiencing sexism and misogyny in their workplaces on a daily basis.

cozar wrote: »

do any of the teacher posters think that repeat students will be accommodated in any way.?

It's hard to know. No detail has been provided. If the exams take place in winter, it's a long time to stay motivated and to continue working without guidance. You would hope that the Dept would make some sort of allowance for these students but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I don't think the Dept will know either until grades are released in August/September and they see how many actually want to sit the exams.

The simplest solution is probably for the student to register as a repeat and attend classes, and if they sit the exams in winter and get what they want, they can leave and if not they can re-sit in June 2021.

That would be my take on it, but the DES haven't made a lot of logical decisions lately.

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

But this year you can repeat a handful if you wish. Focusing on a few exams could help some get that elusive course. Might not materialise but circumstances very different this year.

Current 6th years will not be allowed back into school if they plan to sit exams in winter. Social distancing will be happening so there is no way numbers will be increased unnecessarily. These students are not repeating either they are sitting their exam later. A repeat would be sitting exams in June 2021.

My advice to you all is that unless there is a iron clad formula put in place that's transparent and thus not open to student / parental complaint then inflate the grades . Because otherwise you will be hauled back and forth over the coals. Any formula that is am ambiguous is open to appeal . Thus give your students what they want.
Remember the department of education has clearly shown it doesn't give a flying **** about you. They didn't promote anybody for about ten years and then created mainly bull**** positions. Nothing and I mean nothing has happened to deal with the continuing decline of discipline.
So give the kiddies what they want.

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

That's all up in the air. Any student going to sit exam cud make case that year finished early and they are entitled to more tuition

I was advising teachers to 'finish out the course' earlier on by sending videos and making use of the 'down tools and stop teaching' ambiguity.

In any event, even if teachers had finished out the course you'd get the 'experts-who-are-qualified-because-they-went-to-school-and-coach-an-under-14-Hurling team' baying for 151 hours of teaching a week, or whatever.

Treppen wrote: »

The grade you think they deserve based on past evidence... or the grade you think they would deserve according to their abilities if everything went perfect for them during the exam?

As per William Munny, "deserve's got nothing to do with it". The role of the school is to reflect the mark the candidate is likely to have achieved if they had sat the LC examination in 2020 under normal conditions.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

But isn't this what repeats do every year? Only about 2000 students repeat in any given year, I can't see why the numbers would be much greater than that this year.

Dunno yet, I think you might have a few more than usual.
Some schools don't necessarily allow repeats so it's not taken as an absolute given.

Chaya Fresh Shoehorn wrote: »

I agree. I made no comments on giving what they want. But I think the meaning of evidence needs to be clearly defined. I'm just not sure how this will stand up to scrutiny when student A who got 45 in the mock and 55 in 5th Year is given a H6, makes a complaint because student B who got 45 in the mock and 20 in 5th Year is given a H4. I hope the guidelines will allow for teacher professional judgement. If not then I think half of students won't get what they were most likely to achieve - some better and some worse.

I can't see a student having access to another student's results or know what they achieved in class over two years.

They can't bring a case based on 'Johnny got a better grade than me', they can bring a case on whether or not they got a grade that reflects their own abilities.

Also students have a fair idea where they rank within a class. Only the most deluded will be taking cases for 'I was given a H6, and I think I deserved a H2'. If they haven't provided any evidence for it, I can't see why a teacher would provide such a grade.

Bobtheman wrote: »

What evidence do you have ? Because that evidence depending on where you are - could end up being poured over. I must admit I have only ordinary this year so not as big a deal points wise.
You must also accept that surprising increases and decreases occur in the actual LC Exam. It is not a precise science

Perhaps, but let's say I have a student who has an average of 60, over their house exams over two years, and overall that was on an upward trajectory improving from a H6 in fifth year to a low H5 by the end to relatively solid H4 through sixth year, that their classwork or class tests had improved as the year went on, you might then decide that on the day they would probably pull out a H3. There is evidence to suggest that, but how likely is it that they would manage to pull that up to 80 or more for a H2?

You can say that a student might pour over the evidence, if I'm giving a H3, based on a H4 average and a consistent improvement in a set of grades, I'm not sure what they would have to complain about. How could they prove otherwise that they are worth a H2? There is no evidence to suggest it. There are anomalies like Chaya Fresh Shoehorn said, the ones who fail the mock and pull out a H3 in the real thing. But we are not psychics, it is a calculated grade on what we know of their abilities.

I had three excellent students in my LC class last year. Any one of them could have got the H1 on the day. None of them did. They all got H2s - good grades of course. I went to view the scripts with them and when their marks were converted to percentages they were 85, 87, and 88. If the two higher ones had got maybe one or two more parts of a question correct they would have got the H1. But they didn't and the reality is that the majority of students don't get a H1. Many more think they are capable of it than actually get it.

Chaya Fresh Shoehorn wrote: »

Just received a text message from TUI:

*Important update* TUI members should not start work on calculated grades until further guidance has issued.

Strange since that was already the guidance given last week.

They are probably getting calls non stop about it. There is word of online training.