Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

km79

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/cabinet-to-approve-indemnity-for-teachers-marking-leaving-cert-39223889.html

Doubt schools will have them today now

Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/cabinet-to-approve-indemnity-for-teachers-marking-leaving-cert-39223889.html

Doubt schools will have them today now

It is becoming clearer and clearer that this whole thing was thrown together probably a week before they announced it initially at best.

doc_17

It could still be released today. Then the problems will really start....

fed_u

I'd say tomorrow - they seem to love making the announcements on a Friday so we can spend all weekend stressing about it!

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It is becoming clearer and clearer that this whole thing was thrown together probably a week before they announced it initially at best.

They can delay it for a week if the reason given for the delay is true!
That is important and welcome news,if passed.

( reply intended for earlier postðŸ‘)

r93kaey5p2izun

I'd be happy for them to take their time and get it right at this stage. No point rushing it this late in the day. But it is surely indicative that the claims of weeks of discussions examining and planning alternatives was nothing more than lies and spin. I'm afraid this government has been caught out one too many times during this crisis laying on the spin with nothing to back it up, and it's difficult to have any trust in them now.

doc_17

Last week we were told it’d be Tuesday.

acequion

I have zero faith in the DES to get this right. Zero. Just give me one example of anything they have got right this past decade??? Yep. Nothing, nada, zilch! And their handling of the state exams in this crisis has been nothing short of catastrophic.

I rarely take them seriously. Since the launch of the farcical new JC I've not bothered with their farcical "learning outcomes" and the rest of the baloney and guess what, my students have continued to excel. So I can only only feel contempt for the many sycophants to their dodgy doctrines that share our profession.

But this has to be different.For the sake of our LC students, this predicted grades thing has to work!! Yet here we are late Thursday evening, all waiting with baited breath and still NOTHING. You really would have to be fearful and I sure am.

As for teachers rights and teachers working conditions, they are treated with the same contempt that I feel for the DES and as a group we are just too accepting.Nothing is off the table. Work in June and July. Sure boss. Sort out your own JC in September. Righteo boss. Work well into June on these predicted grades. Not a bother boss. Take the blame for the inevitable fall out and anyway shur haven't ye effectively been on holidays since March. If you say so boss.

It really is one sad and sorry mess. But if it somehow works out it will be down to us, the teachers. Because we are extremely committed and professional and we'll all throw our shoulders to the wheel, not for the boss but for the ones who really matter, our students. And if we manage to pull it off it will be in spite of and not because of any so called help from the experts.

The whole cock up,the incompetence of the DES, the treatment of teachers and the appalling but successful media propaganda, is quite shocking.

TheValeyard

Just remember, whatever happens, this is not our fault. We are adapting to an emergency situation where our voices have been drowned out by special interest groups.

We've done our jobs professionally, acted appropriately, and maintained standards and grades to the best of our ability in all this madness.

Bobtheman

acequion wrote: »

I have zero faith in the DES to get this right. Zero. Just give me one example of anything they have got right this past decade??? Yep. Nothing, nada, zilch! And their handling of the state exams in this crisis has been nothing short of catastrophic.

I rarely take them seriously. Since the launch of the farcical new JC I've not bothered with their farcical "learning outcomes" and the rest of the baloney and guess what, my students have continued to excel. So I can only only feel contempt for the many sycophants to their dodgy doctrines that share our profession.

But this has to be different.For the sake of our LC students, this predicted grades thing has to work!! Yet here we are late Thursday evening, all waiting with baited breath and still NOTHING. You really would have to be fearful and I sure am.

As for teachers rights and teachers working conditions, they are treated with the same contempt that I feel for the DES and as a group we are just too accepting.Nothing is off the table. Work in June and July. Sure boss. Sort out your own JC in September. Righteo boss. Work well into June on these predicted grades. Not a bother boss. Take the blame for the inevitable fall out and anyway shur haven't ye effectively been on holidays since March. If you say so boss.

It really is one sad and sorry mess. But if it somehow works out it will be down to us, the teachers. Because we are extremely committed and professional and we'll all throw our shoulders to the wheel, not for the boss but for the ones who really matter, our students. And if we manage to pull it off it will be in spite of and not because of any so called help from the experts.

The whole cock up,the incompetence of the DES, the treatment of teachers and the appalling but successful media propaganda, is quite shocking.

My advice-inflate because who can say with total accuracy what grade a student would have got in the LC? Who kept detailed records? I didn't? By inflate I mean 10-15% higher than your School records might show. If anybody can provide me with a workable/alternative fair system I will use it. I don't expect the DE to produce one -what they will serve up will be vague.

Mardy Bum

Bobtheman wrote: »

My advice-inflate because who can say with total accuracy what grade a student would have got in the LC? Who kept detailed records? I didn't? By inflate I mean 10-15% higher than your School records might show. If anybody can provide me with a workable/alternative fair system I will use it. I don't expect the DE to produce one -what they will serve up will be vague.

Inflation like this serves no one. Points will rise. There is an upper limit and it will simply mean more random entries and that is if there was no school profiling. The reason school profiling has to happen is because of your suggestion.

Dylan94

According to the Irish Times the new guidelines have been published. Anyone know where to find them?

jimmytwotimes 2013

Anyone got a link for guidelines?

thefasteriwalk

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/1afce4-a-guide-to-calculated-grades-for-leaving-certificate-students-2020/

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Bobtheman wrote: »

My advice-inflate because who can say with total accuracy what grade a student would have got in the LC? Who kept detailed records? I didn't? By inflate I mean 10-15% higher than your School records might show. If anybody can provide me with a workable/alternative fair system I will use it. I don't expect the DE to produce one -what they will serve up will be vague.

10-15% ??
Would take a very insecure principal to sign off on those.

Greensoup

Inflating results is pointless......You can inflate all you like as your school will get pretty much the same results as their average over last 3 years. If biology gets an average around 59-62 CAO points in your school over the last 3 leaving certs that’s what you’ll get this time. They’ll use your schools average results in your subject and your class rankings to give pretty much the same results as before. Your class rankings will determine who gets what based on other years....

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/1afce4-a-guide-to-calculated-grades-for-leaving-certificate-students-2020/

I think that’s the one released on May 8th.
The media seemed to have jumped the gun.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Do I write the grades on any aul page or will they send a form out?

Mardy Bum

Nalani Hissing Appetizer wrote: »

I think that’s the one released on May 8th.
The media seemed to have jumped the gun.

Carl O Brien is now Joe McHugh's advisor by the looks of things.

thefasteriwalk

Nalani Hissing Appetizer wrote: »

I think that’s the one released on May 8th.
The media seemed to have jumped the gun.

Is the PDF at the end of the page old? I think that’s it.

ngunners

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Do I write the grades on any aul page or will they send a form out?

Sure, just WhatsApp them over to Joe. What could go wrong?

jimmytwotimes 2013

Might just send my results to the Irish Times, it'll get to the minister faster

Mardy Bum

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

Is the PDF at the end of the page old? I think that’s it.

That is just a PDF of the webpage.

Bobtheman

Greensoup wrote: »

Inflating results is pointless......You can inflate all you like as your school will get pretty much the same results as their average over last 3 years. If biology gets an average around 59-62 CAO points in your school over the last 3 leaving certs that’s what you’ll get this time. They’ll use your schools average results in your subject and your class rankings to give pretty much the same results as before. Your class rankings will determine who gets what based on other years....

BUT how are the class rankings drawn up ? By just school grades ? If that's the case why do they need teachers at all ??

km79

Emma o kelly once again has it in her hands before teachers

r93kaey5p2izun

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Might just send my results to the Irish Times, it'll get to the minister faster

I say Ciara Kellly and Jennifer O'Connell should carry out the standardisation given their extensive expertise. Obviously Carl O'Brien will chair the committee. Joe McHugh will provide training via TikTok. Joe Duffy will lead the appeals board, largely based on how the grade made the student feel.

Bobtheman

Nalani Hissing Appetizer wrote: »

10-15% ??
Would take a very insecure principal to sign off on those.

My central questions remain unanswered. How are the class rankings drawn up? If teachers personal records are to be drawn into it- how will these records be verified or will they ? Teacher records vary greatly. The word inflate might be provocative. What I mean how can anybody be sure the grades they give a student would be the same as what a student would get in the LC?
Then you have the issue that we are using records that were not designed for this purpose. Did we all keep copies of student tests to check if these school exams are of use?
Anybody who says this is not a minefield is delusional. Thus adding 15% to what they got in vague school grades is very fair

km79

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0037_2020.pdf

40 pages
enjoy

Icsics

Asti president on news advising members not to cooperate with guidelines, indemnity not up to scratch

km79

Looks like a form has to be completed for every student by every teacher. And if completed digitally it has to be printed off and signed......
And we need their exam numbers to fill it