Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

little bess · 17-05-2020 12:44PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Or Mary's elderly relatives....

This type of telling off to women pisses me off. Simon Harris the same, telling us we can wait to buy curtains and duvet covers, ffs.

podgeandrodge · 17-05-2020 12:45PM

circadian wrote: »

So, not for the first time this week, someone close to me has sent me a video with Delores Cahill on that eejit Computingforever channel on YouTube.

Now I don't doubt her credentials, she is clearly very accomplished but what the stuff she was coming out with in the video seems to be the complete opposite with the general consensus of the science community. She did say she hasn't worked with immunology since 1990 or so, but she is definite that once you get the virus you are immune for life. It hasn't been around long enough for this to be proven. She also went down the event 201 conspiracy route.

Basically I'm wondering what her game is here. Clearly and accomplished person pushing conspiracies. Seems quite a few people are getting sucked into it, including people I would consider rational and healthily skeptical.

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

She disagrees with consensus so she must be wrong is that it? Just like Sweeden I suppose, time will tell.

Never actually heard of Event 201 until circadian mentioned it

But it doesn't sound a million miles away from reality no?

Beasty · 17-05-2020 12:47PM

NDWC wrote: »

There are nearly 5 million confirmed cases worldwide so I'm assuming if people could be infected twice it would've happened to more than 2 people by now.

Also considering how much the media seem to fawn over these doomsday stories I'm certain we'd have heard about any suspected reinfections had they occured

I think there's been more than 2 suggested to have contracted it twice. However I don't think anyone has confirmed if they were ever completely clear of it

Even if these is immunity, how long does it last? No-one can really know yet whether it's a year, 6 months, 3 months, life?

We remain a long way from properly understanding this virus and the jury has to be out on the concept of reinfection

caveat emptor · 17-05-2020 12:58PM

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Im not knocking your caution, but it has not actually been proven that it can spread via aerosol. It’s been shown that the virus’s RNA can be present in aerosol droplets, but there’s no proof that it’s transmissible this way.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-coronavirus-spreads-through-the-air-what-we-know-so-far1/

Fair one but most of the science boils down to what size is "an aerosol" vs a droplet. It can remain in the air for 3 hours. This is a highly infectious pathogen. I may be taking a leap but the circumstantial evidence is pointing to being cautious.

We don't have time for double-blind studies which infect people with said pathogen, we may never have this information.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence especially with a 'novel' virus. i.e it's new we don't know.

I should add if something can hang in the air for that length of time. Normal convection currents / Brownian motion would make a perspex screen ineffective in stopping the droplets being inhaled by someone on the other side of the screen.

It does reduce risk for direct droplet exposure which is good.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/study-shows-human-speech-creates-long-lasting-airborne-droplets-a-coronavirus-transmission-risk/

iguana · 17-05-2020 01:10PM

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I’m not sure if “the virus” is dragging on for 6 or 7 weeks, in that people still have a viral load at this time. It seems the illness can, which seems to be caused by the immune system going into overdrive and remaining so even after the virus has gone. There’s a mechanism known as a “cytokine storm” that occurs where the body produces a massive amount of inflammatory chemicals called cytokines that cause major damage to tissues and organs. This can last for many weeks. This occurred in SARS too, and is seen in many bad cases of Covid 19. But this part of the illness, while potentially fatal or life-changing, isn’t in itself contagious.

I started having breathing difficulties, sore throat, chest constriction on March 18th, recovered on April 4th, 'relapsed' on April 8th and am still unwell now 8.5 weeks after first having symptoms. From the relapse, I have a diagnosis of post-viral pleurisy in my right lung and costochondritis with the doctor who treating me saying it was likely caused by Covid. I had a chest x-ray which showed no scarring or potentially long term problems. I've also had a range of symptoms like ongoing difficulty breathing, sore throat/lump in my throat, burning in my sternum. My symptoms worsen with activity.

Both diagnoses and all my symptoms are post-viral chest wall inflammation. A fairly common immune response to a lower respiratory infection. I can also tell with hindsight that for the last week of my initial illness my symptoms were most likely caused by inflammation than the virus. (I kept a diary of symptoms and triggers.) I know that through many of my efforts to force myself to get better, I worsened my inflammation repeatedly. I've worked out how to manage my symptoms pretty well now. I'm about 90-95% symptom free as long as I'm really careful and completely avoid triggering the inflammation, which is unfortunately really easy. I'm guessing in another month or two the inflammation will go away completely and I'll be back to normal.

A long recuperation period can be common with some people after a viral infection. But it doesn't mean that there will be any longterm damage. Inflammation is a normal part of the immune response but it can be easy to trigger an overreaction. It's not uncommon for a person to need weeks or months to let their body recover fully.

Eod100 · 17-05-2020 01:18PM

With reduced services and reduced capacity on public transport, hope we don't see something similar to what happened in London tomorrow. Only a maximum of 17 people can fit on Dublin Bus for example with reduced seats. Not sure is driver counting and anyone more gets turned away or what.

cnocbui · 17-05-2020 01:22PM

Beasty wrote: »

I think there's been more than 2 suggested to have contracted it twice. However I don't think anyone has confirmed if they were ever completely clear of it

Even if these is immunity, how long does it last? No-one can really know yet whether it's a year, 6 months, 3 months, life?

We remain a long way from properly understanding this virus and the jury has to be out on the concept of reinfection

Eight more sailors aboard US ship test positive a second time

WASHINGTON — Eight more sailors aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt have tested positive again for the coronavirus, raising to 13 the number who appear to have become infected a second time while serving aboard the sidelined aircraft carrier.

All the sailors had previously tested positive for the virus and had gone through at least two weeks of isolation. Before they were allowed to go back to the ship, all had to test negative twice in a row, with the tests separated by at least a day or two.

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/eight-more-sailors-aboard-us-ship-test-positive-a-second-time-1.630080

Not looking good for the immunity theory.

is_that_so · 17-05-2020 01:24PM

Inquitus wrote: »

If they are using the Abbott test which is utterly unreliable, then it could well be a testing issue, we shall see, that said there is a big gap between the initial diagnosis and the recurrence!

Some stuff came out about this kind of thing in the early days in China and they put it down to the tests.

Dayor Knight · 17-05-2020 01:26PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

It’s a good job it doesn’t spread by farting ( well not that we know of) or we’d be all f****d ;-)

Do humans transmit aerosol though? I would have thought mostly droplets.

Well as log as you keep your trousers on ....

Itssoeasy · 17-05-2020 01:26PM

Shane Ross has more or less tough **** to people on provisional license who need to drive to work again from tomorrow. He's not changing the rules if only briefly because people through no fault of their own can't take their driving test.

Professor Moriarty · 17-05-2020 01:27PM

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/eight-more-sailors-aboard-us-ship-test-positive-a-second-time-1.630080

Not looking good for the immunity theory.

The article itself says the testing might be faulty for a variety of reasons.

17-05-2020 01:30PM

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/eight-more-sailors-aboard-us-ship-test-positive-a-second-time-1.630080

Not looking good for the immunity theory.

Again this is inconclusive and suggests more reactivation than reinfection. And it does not describe any of those who tested positive as having any symptoms

coastwatch · 17-05-2020 01:33PM

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/eight-more-sailors-aboard-us-ship-test-positive-a-second-time-1.630080

Not looking good for the immunity theory.

This apparent re-infection has been explained as being due to the PCR test detecting "dead" fragments that can linger after the person has recovered.

"Although somebody can recover and no longer be infectious, they may still have these little fragments of [inactive] viral RNA which turn out positive on those tests."

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-reinfections-were-false-positives.html

owlbethere · 17-05-2020 01:34PM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

I mentioned a while back that this is down to people's risk tolerances. A lot of people will say "I have to live my life" to an extent, this can't go on forever and you can never avoid the risk completely.

Others (presumably owlbethere included from what they say) have a much much higher aversion to risk.

This makes a lot of sense. Also I'm someone who doesn't need a holiday abroad to find enjoyment and fulfillment at home. I'm someone who would wait happily for a vaccine.

iguana · 17-05-2020 01:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Again this is inconclusive and suggests more reactivation than reinfection. And it does not describe any of those who tested positive as having any symptoms

It's almost certainly neither and is just large fragments of dead virus being picked up by the tests. Sars-Cov-2 does not penetrate the nucleus of the host cell in order to replicate. This means reactivation is extremely unlikely. Once a person recovers they recover completely, unless they have sustained a permanent injury from the virus. People's immune response appears robust after recovery, but we can't know for some time how long it will last for.

Beasty · 17-05-2020 01:43PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Shane Ross has more or less tough **** to people on provisional license who need to drive to work again from tomorrow. He's not changing the rules if only briefly because people through no fault of their own can't take their driving test.

Thank Christ for that

We really need to stop this habit of people on provisional licences thinking they can drive unsupervised and put the rest of us at more risk

This country has a history of allowing people to by-pass proper testing, and it really has to stop

owlbethere · 17-05-2020 01:47PM

iguana wrote: »

I started having breathing difficulties, sore throat, chest constriction on March 18th, recovered on April 4th, 'relapsed' on April 8th and am still unwell now 8.5 weeks after first having symptoms. From the relapse, I have a diagnosis of post-viral pleurisy in my right lung and costochondritis with the doctor who treating me saying it was likely caused by Covid. I had a chest x-ray which showed no scarring or potentially long term problems. I've also had a range of symptoms like ongoing difficulty breathing, sore throat/lump in my throat, burning in my sternum. My symptoms worsen with activity.

Both diagnoses and all my symptoms are post-viral chest wall inflammation. A fairly common immune response to a lower respiratory infection. I can also tell with hindsight that for the last week of my initial illness my symptoms were most likely caused by inflammation than the virus. (I kept a diary of symptoms and triggers.) I know that through many of my efforts to force myself to get better, I worsened my inflammation repeatedly. I've worked out how to manage my symptoms pretty well now. I'm about 90-95% symptom free as long as I'm really careful and completely avoid triggering the inflammation, which is unfortunately really easy. I'm guessing in another month or two the inflammation will go away completely and I'll be back to normal.

A long recuperation period can be common with some people after a viral infection. But it doesn't mean that there will be any longterm damage. Inflammation is a normal part of the immune response but it can be easy to trigger an overreaction. It's not uncommon for a person to need weeks or months to let their body recover fully.

Thank you so much for your beautiful message and wishing you the best for your recovery.

I wonder will the government, employers and people on a personal level factor in this aspect of the infection that for some people, recovery can take a few months?

17-05-2020 02:06PM

bekker wrote: »

Will you be happy enough to pay for the totality of your care on your return if you pick it abroad, or do you expect the rest of us to pick up the tab for isolation or treatment?

To access the risk you'll be taking try getting an insurance quote to cover against the total cost of your COVID-19 care on return to Ireland.

You won't get insurance cover for isolation on return.

I am prepared to take the risk given my age, my health profile, and the clear data saying what my level of risk is.

poppers · 17-05-2020 02:12PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Increased by 18

Increased by 10.
18 to 28

petes · 17-05-2020 02:13PM

Beasty wrote: »

Thank Christ for that

We really need to stop this habit of people on provisional licences thinking they can drive unsupervised and put the rest of us at more risk

This country has a history of allowing people to by-pass proper testing, and it really has to stop

Especially when you read something in the news that starts with 'John, who is on his sixth provisional licence....'.

Azatadine · 17-05-2020 02:14PM

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/eight-more-sailors-aboard-us-ship-test-positive-a-second-time-1.630080

Not looking good for the immunity theory.

Enough with this type of comment. Loads of evidence and data over the last few weeks supporting immunity for at least a reasonable period of time. Until a few weeks ago, there were some doubts but dispelled now. Scaremongering is rampant in here and not based on fact or science.

Strazdas · 17-05-2020 02:28PM

Azatadine wrote: »

Enough with this type of comment. Loads of evidence and data over the last few weeks supporting immunity for at least a reasonable period of time. Until a few weeks ago, there were some doubts but dispelled now. Scaremongering is rampant in here and not based on fact or science.

But what use is immunity if only a relatively small number of people contract the virus? I'd hazard a guess that 5% or less of the Irish population have had Covid-19.

Tony EH · 17-05-2020 02:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I am prepared to take the risk given my age, my health profile, and the clear data saying what my level of risk is.

What about the level of risk to other people that you pass it onto?

Plumbthedepths · 17-05-2020 02:47PM

Tony EH wrote: »

What about the level of risk to other people that you pass it onto?

So do nothing for the rest of one's life incase you spread something to another person? Can you not see how ridiculous your comment is?

bekker · 17-05-2020 02:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I am prepared to take the risk given my age, my health profile, and the clear data saying what my level of risk is.

You are entitled to react to risk at whatever level you feel comfortable with.

What you are not entitled to do is knowingly put others at risk without their consent.

Nor expect others to bear financial cost for any adverse consequences of your actions.

bb1234567 · 17-05-2020 03:07PM

Azatadine wrote: »

Enough with this type of comment. Loads of evidence and data over the last few weeks supporting immunity for at least a reasonable period of time. Until a few weeks ago, there were some doubts but dispelled now. Scaremongering is rampant in here and not based on fact or science.

Unfortunately there is a large degree of denial and minimising of the situation not based on any fact or science either though which will only lead to complacency and a repeat of the outbreaks across Europe in March. Multiple posters claiming a majority of patients would have died soon anyway, that IFR is similar to the influenza, that most people contracted this virus in December etc among many other completely unsubstantiated statements

podgeandrodge · 17-05-2020 03:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I am prepared to take the risk given my age, my health profile, and the clear data saying what my level of risk is.

Tony EH wrote: »

What about the level of risk to other people that you pass it onto?

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So do nothing for the rest of one's life incase you spread something to another person? Can you not see how ridiculous your comment is?

bekker wrote: »

You are entitled to react to risk at whatever level you feel comfortable with.

What you are not entitled to do is knowingly put others at risk without their consent.

Nor expect others to bear financial cost for any adverse consequences of your actions.

Hold on a minute. You seriously expect the vast majority of the world to perpetually put their lives on hold, and not travel anywhere, or adopt quasi permanent mask wearing and other restrictions, to protect those who are vulnerable? Life doesn't work like that, we are currently in lockdown/social distancing to enable the health service cope. Hopefully, going forward, the curve will remain flat enough for that to continue.

The vulnerable will have to make their own risk assessments as to where and what they do, but cannot expect the vast majority of the population to protect them forever at the expense of a normal society. The flu (not that this is the same) kills people too, and we don't, nor does society expect, us to take such actions to protect those who are vulnerable to it.

Plumbthedepths · 17-05-2020 03:10PM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

The vulnerable will have to make their own risk assessments as to where and what they do, but cannot expect the vast majority of the population to protect them forever at the expense of a normal society.

Well put.

firemansam4 · 17-05-2020 03:10PM

Strazdas wrote:

But what use is immunity if only a relatively small number of people contract the virus? I'd hazard a guess that 5% or less of the Irish population have had Covid-19.

A good proportion of people infected would have been working in high risk areas such as hospitals and nursing homes, so if these people now do have immunity I think it will be a big help in slowing the spread where there is most risk of it spreading.

growleaves · 17-05-2020 03:11PM

bekker wrote: »

You are entitled to react to risk at whatever level you feel comfortable with.

What you are not entitled to do is knowingly put others at risk without their consent.

Nor expect others to bear financial cost for any adverse consequences of your actions.

If he comes back from holiday and quarantines for 14 days then he doesn't need your "consent".

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

Comments