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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #3902
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Lol pretty bad showing tonight. Trump is bad, Brazil president is bad and Belarus arent transparent.

    China is good, Leo is great and 5 month lockdowns are the way to go.

    Goodnight

    PS dont forget imperial college models predicting 96 000 dead in Sweden.


  • #3903
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    deisedevil wrote: »
    But....but......SWEDEN!

    Yes because Brazil and Ireland are perfectly identical whereas Ireland and Sweden are polar opposites, you probably can't find any of them on a map so they've that in common.


  • #3904
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    Yes because Brazil and Ireland are perfectly identical whereas Ireland and Sweden are polar opposites, you probably can't find any of them on a map so they've that in common.

    So maybe we should go with the plan that our own experts have deemed appropriate to our own country? Shock and awe.


  • #3905
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    So maybe we should go with the plan that our own experts have deemed appropriate to our own country? Shock and awe.

    So what makes Ireland so exceptional to the likes of Germany or Belgium that the relaxation of restrictions is a 12 week ordeal? Shock and awe.


  • #3906
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    So what makes Ireland so exceptional to the likes of Germany or Belgium that the relaxation of restrictions is a 12 week ordeal? Shock and awe.

    Wait a minute you just said a post back that comparisons like this are not useful?


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  • #3907
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    There should be a "Brazil avoiding lockdown" thread


  • #3908
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    Wait a minute you just said a post back that comparisons like this are not useful?

    No I said ridiculing people bringing up Sweden and then in the same breath bringing up Brazil as comparison to Ireland is ridiculous. We've 1000 things more in common with Sweden than with Brazil.


  • #3909
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,155 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I'm just catching up with today's report in the IT over dinner and found an interesting paragraph :



    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-15-new-deaths-reported-in-the-republic-new-cases-below-100-for-first-time-since-march-1.4255433


    So... Before any restrictions were imposed, without doing anything, the transmission rate had already more than halved, and since then with nearly 2 months of restrictions it's gone down only another point?

    Am I missing something? Because if not you'd have to wonder if the level of restrictions (and the damage they've caused to the economy) were justified at all?

    Most of the cause for why the transmission rate was falling before restrictions were officially imposed was because people were already voluntarily restricting their movements before it was made official.

    I went out to watch the Liverpool-Athletico Madrid second leg of the champions league on the 11th of March. There had been no official restrictions put in place at that stage, but, you could tell people were staying in - the pub I was in was about had about one third of the crowd in that night that you would usually expect for such a big game - streets were quieter, people weren't about like a regular night. The next day they made the announcements about the schools and colleges.

    A lot of pubs and clubs around me made the decision to close before it became official. This was also the case with other businesses. Officially the further restrictions didn't come in until the 28th of March, but at that stage most retail stores were already closed and walking through the centre of Galway City, where I live, was like walking through a ghost town - even days before restrictions were legally in place. I walked home from work a few evenings and I literally didn't see one other person - and this was in the week, even the ten days, before the instructions to stay at home were issued.

    People were staying in well before they were explicitly told to do so. So, obviously, the transmission rate was falling before the 28th of March. So when people say, hey - the transmission rate was falling even before the lockdown happened, it just reflects how people were already anticipating what was coming with their behaviour.

    The short memories of many in here amazes me. When businesses, cafes, restaurants, pubs etc were taking it upon themselves to shut before they officially had too, there were little to no voices to be found around here wondering about the economic consequences of whether they were doing themselves and the country damage by shuttering too hastily. Most were screaming that the government wasn't moving quick enough and we needed a total comprehensive lockdown like Wuhan. Go back and have a look.

    People were scared and were taking no chances. Now ye're all kitted out with hindsight and dubious stats that you all desperately want to be true, so much that you've all convinced yourselves that they are.

    Many of ye were probably naive to begin with, thinking that things might only last the initial couple of weeks and we'd be all sound again after that. Some of the arguments I read in here stink of that same hope-casting level of logic and critical thinking. What you want to believe the most should be the thing you hold to greatest scrutiny.


    To tell you the truth, I hope the pro economic brigade are right. I'd rather that this is as piss easy as many of you think and we can get back to normal life as soon as possible - living with restrictions is a shit life - but unlike a lot of ye I haven't forgotten that the lock down isn't the real enemy: the real one has killed 1500 people in the last two months. And it hasn't gone away and is still the exact same highly contagious and dangerous disease. The government are absolutely right to be cautious in how they approach the lifting of the measures that have been proven to be effective.


  • #3910
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    No I said ridiculing people bringing up Sweden and then in the same breath bringing up Brazil as comparison to Ireland is ridiculous. We've 1000 things more in common with Sweden than with Brazil.

    Ah I see. So the comparison holds true when it supports your line of thinking. I get ya. Thanks


  • #3911
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    There should be a "Brazil avoiding lockdown" thread

    We'll be able to compare locked down areas of Brazil with non-locked down areas of Brazil, in time. Just as we can compare North Dakota (lockdown) to South Dakota (no lockdown).


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  • #3912
    Pitch n Putt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Pitch n Putt


    RGS wrote: »
    How can the jockeys social distance during a race. All races have horses close to each other and bumping into each other. Theres no social distance in existence.
    Are the jockeys socially isolating from the families, I doubt it.
    Leo stated it's because they contribute 500 m to the economy.
    Looks like he ignore the majority of other business cases put forward.

    I don’t know of any flat race that goes on for 15 mins which is the magic number time wise regarding contact with people

    Also 1 meters distancing should be more than enough for the duration of a race which in most cases would be well under 5 minutes


  • #3913
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    Ah I see. So the comparison holds true when it supports your line of thinking. I get ya. Thanks

    Okay then let's draw example to Ireland with Brazil, who have two of the largest cities in the world with Sao Paulo and Rio de janiero, with a large portion of the population living in slums cramped together and an overall population of nearly 200 million people. What you're doing is drawing comparison between a gold fish and a marlin.


  • #3914
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    Okay then let's draw example to Ireland with Brazil, who have two of the largest cities in the world with Sao Paulo and Rio de janiero, with a large portion of the population living in slums cramped together and an overall population of nearly 200 million people. What you're doing is drawing comparison between a gold fish and a marlin.

    There is no comparison. As there isn't to ****ing Sweden.


  • #3915
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    growleaves wrote: »
    We'll be able to compare locked down areas of Brazil with non-locked down areas of Brazil, in time. Just as we can compare North Dakota (lockdown) to South Dakota (no lockdown).

    That is interesting, never knew about one dakota having lockdown and the other didnt. South Dakota has twice as many cases, and likely more as it has only tested half as many people as north dakota

    Though their deaths are the exact same. That will be such an interesting case study, they have almost the exact same population and population density and are both extremely rural.


  • #3916
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    Sorry for the leap away but just picked this up here couple of pages back...

    Are creches expected to operate with distancing when they re-open? As in keeping the children apart?

    Is it just me who thinks that would be insane? Thats like torture. You might as well put them into cages.

    It hasn’t been confirmed yet, but whether it’ll be a necessary measure for reopening or not is still under discussion.
    How you will enforce something like that in a room of 2yr old remains to be seen, they have no concept of personal space. It’s highly impractical and a very unfair burden to put on the childcare profession, not to mention how detrimental it is to the kids development.

    I saw an article earlier on the measures schools & nurseries in the UK are taking to reopen earlier and it made for some sad reading.

    It sounds absolutely grim, there is to be less than 10 kids to a classroom and they all have to sit 2m apart. They won’t be able to have any contact with each other or their teacher.
    No PE, no games and no sports. No playing with toys or other educational equipment.
    They’re putting stickers on the ground 2m apart to ensure the kids are socially distanced at break time, and different year groups won’t be allowed mix with each other during lunch either.
    The teachers won’t even be allowed to correct the homework. They’ll be encouraged to bring in their own PPE as it won’t be supplied by their department of education.
    It sounds like a nightmare.


  • #3917
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    There is no comparison. As there isn't to ****ing Sweden.

    Well there is, similar age demographic, similar level of income per capita, similar form of government, national health service, both EU member states and similar urban/rural population but other than that, they've not much in common.


  • #3918
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    Well there is, similar age demographic, similar level of income per capita, similar form of government, national health service, both EU member states and similar urban/rural population but other than that, they've not much in common.

    Some genetic overlap as well. Vikings both invaded Ireland and brought captured Irish girls back to Scandi with them.


  • #3919
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    People were scared and were taking no chances. Now ye're all kitted out with hindsight

    Mate I was on here writing posts opposing lockdown as early as March 16th.

    So many of my posts were being ignored I thought there was a problem with my computer and people couldn't see them.

    I was kitted out with foresight, predicting that the Imperial model would prove wrong and telling people the final death rate would be below 1%.


  • #3920
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    Well there is, similar age demographic, similar level of income per capita, similar form of government, national health service, both EU member states and similar urban/rural population but other than that, they've not much in common.

    Nah Ireland has more in common with south American slums than another European country


  • #3921
    uli84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭uli84


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0516/1138803-government-establishes-return-to-sport-expert-group/

    A return to Sport Expert Group is being set up . All very fine but where is the Return to Work Group or Return to School Expert Group
    Priorities please Mr Varadkar

    I bet according to him you don’t need school or work or curtains and pillows but you need horse racing and sports


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  • #3922
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    Well there is, similar age demographic, similar level of income per capita, similar form of government, national health service, both EU member states and similar urban/rural population but other than that, they've not much in common.

    I can't even fathom this stuff. I can't keep arguing against stuff that makes no sense. Even though Sweden never entered an official lockdown they have very much treated in as such for long periods which is something we never could have achieved given the way in which we have seen people act. They have twice our ICU capcity. The is a somewhat good article here from RTE. They have a population with high social compliance. I think they have currently about 2 to 3 times as many deaths as us with roughly the same infected? What a win.

    Forgetting all of that the point is we are different and these comparison are pointless. We need to trust our own guidance and experts. Especially against the ones in this thread who now believe themselves to be political, data, disease and economic experts all rolled into one.


  • #3923
    Juwwi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭Juwwi


    Kermit.deg .frog wrote: »
    There should be a "Brazil avoiding lockdown" thread


    Or a thread naming and shaming mask wearers

    Just read back 2 different posters claiming that loons are driving around with masks on in cars

    and wearing a mask is a bad example to kids .:rolleyes:

    Jesus will people cop on . if people want to wear a mask during a global virus pandemic will you just mind your own business .

    nobody knows what other peoples situation is at home or health wise ffs


  • #3924
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    I can't even fathom this stuff. I can't keep arguing against stuff that makes no sense. Even though Sweden never entered an official lockdown they have very much treated in as such for long periods which is something we never could have achieved given the way in which we have seen people act. They have twice our ICU capcity. The is a somewhat good article here from RTE. They have a population with high social compliance. I think they have currently about 2 to 3 times as many deaths as us with roughly the same infected? What a win.

    Forgetting all of that the point is we are different and these comparison are pointless. We need to trust our own guidance and experts. Especially against the ones in this thread who now believe themselves to be political, data, disease and economic experis all rollled into one.

    Forget ICU per million population.

    Apply ICU per million over 65


  • #3925
    ismat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭ismat


    growleaves wrote: »
    Mate I was on here writing posts opposing lockdown as early as March 16th.

    So many of my posts were being ignored I thought there was a problem with my computer and people couldn't see them.

    I was kitted out with foresight, predicting that the Imperial model would prove wrong and telling people the final death rate would be below 1%.

    1% would be about 50,000 people. Only 1,500 or so have died to date.


  • #3926
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,155 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    growleaves wrote: »
    Mate I was on here writing posts opposing lockdown as early as March 16th.

    So many of my posts were being ignored I thought there was a problem with my computer and people couldn't see them.

    I was kitted out with foresight, predicting that the Imperial model would prove wrong and telling people the final death rate would be below 1%.

    Well, at least you've been consistent in your naivete in that case. Which is something.

    But it doesn't mean that a lockdown wasn't necessary.

    We can agree to disagree, before we start all this. It's a waste of time.


  • #3927
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    I can't even fathom this stuff. I can't keep arguing against stuff that makes no sense. Even though Sweden never entered an official lockdown they have very much treated in as such for long periods which is something we never could have achieved given the way in which we have seen people act. They have twice our ICU capcity. The is a somewhat good article here from RTE. They have a population with high social compliance. I think they have currently about 2 to 3 times as many deaths as us with roughly the same infected? What a win.

    Forgetting all of that the point is we are different and these comparison are pointless. We need to trust our own guidance and experts. Especially ones in this thread who now believe themselves to be political, data, disease and economic experis all rollled into one.

    Well sorry but going by past experience I wouldn't put too much faith in the Irish civil service or the government for that matter, at the best of times they're a comedy of errors nevermind in the face of a global crisis. I'd trust their Belgian, german, Dutch or Austrian counterparts before I'd hang my hopes on them getting it right.

    The country has been run incompetently for decades and we've had chance after chance to change it and we haven't. We're going to pay the price for it now like we did in 2009 and it'll be costly indeed. Anyone who thinks its a simple case of staying at home until August and it'll all be grand is lying to themselves.


  • #3928
    ismat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭ismat


    Juwwi wrote: »
    Or a thread naming and shaming mask wearers

    Just read back 2 different posters claiming that loons are driving around with masks on in cars

    and wearing a mask is a bad example to kids .:rolleyes:

    Jesus will people cop on . if people want to wear a mask during a global virus pandemic will you just mind your own business .

    nobody knows what other peoples situation is at home or health wise ffs

    I’ve seen lots of people driving on their own and wearing masks. Obviously they have no concept of what the mask actually does as it cannot be helpful in any way while in their own car unaccompanied


  • #3929
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah, seeing people being targeted for wearing masks is a worry alright and strips credibility from the aggressors' other opinions IMO.

    But sure there are 'badly misguideds' on both sides - the HSE vs Hairdressers thing in here a few nights ago was the bizarrest shít I've seen in all 3 of these threads so far. Pressure is definitely starting to grow on people.

    I started to feel the struggle myself this week with the lockdown. My industry was the first out and will be among the last to return, every day I wake to cancellations stretching into September/October at this stage, and the light at the end of the tunnel gets that bit further out of reach. I understand what must be done, but it's quite a test and I don't know if any/many of us are dealing with this perfectly.


  • #3930
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    ismat wrote: »
    I’ve seen lots of people driving on their own and wearing masks. Obviously they have no concept of what the mask actually does as it cannot be helpful in any way while in their own car unaccompanied

    They put it on at home after they’ve just washed their hands, leave it on in the car, do their shopping, drive home with the mask on and then take it off properly when they get home. What’s so difficult to get about that?

    Masks are working in other parts of the world. I don’t know why there’s such a stigma about them here.


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  • #3931
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    ismat wrote: »
    1% would be about 50,000 people. Only 1,500 or so have died to date.

    Posters were making predictions of overall death rates of 1%, 1.7%, 3%, 4%, 6%, 7% and even 21% on the main threads, starting in mid-March.

    Even after most of Europe went into lockdown.


This discussion has been closed.
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