Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

growleaves

Arghus wrote: »

Well, at least you've been consistent in your naivete in that case. Which is something.

But it doesn't mean that a lockdown wasn't necessary.

We can agree to disagree, before we start all this. It's a waste of time.

I won't get into bickering with you. I agree to disagree.

I've made my points on this thread, such as comparisons between S. Dakota and N. Dakota.

I'm sure many studies and books analysing covid and lockdown will be written in the years to come.

ismat

growleaves wrote: »

Posters were making predictions of overall death rates of 1%, 1.7%, 3%, 4%, 6%, 7% and even 21% on the main threads, starting in mid-March.

Even after most of Europe went into lockdown.

There are some extreme predictions alright. I’d say it will be closer to .1% then 1% based on what has happened so far

ismat

growleaves wrote: »

Posters were making predictions of overall death rates of 1%, 1.7%, 3%, 4%, 6%, 7% and even 21% on the main threads, starting in mid-March.

Even after most of Europe went into lockdown.

There are some extreme predictions alright. I’d say it will be closer to .1% then 1% based on what has happened so far

Juwwi

ismat wrote: »

I’ve seen lots of people driving on their own and wearing masks. Obviously they have no concept of what the mask actually does as it cannot be helpful in any way while in their own car unaccompanied

The proper way to wear a mask tho is put it on with clean hands and don't touch it again until your hands are clean again to take it off.

By putting it on before you leave the house presumingly its to go on a short drive to the supermarket it makes 100% sense as its the safe.

To be calling people loons is ridiculous

ismat

NegativeCreep wrote: »

They put it on at home after they’ve just washed their hands, leave it on in the car, do their shopping, drive home with the mask on and then take it off properly when they get home. What’s so difficult to get about that?

Masks are working in other parts of the world. I don’t know why there’s such a stigma about them here.

It’s nothing to do with stigma. Masks protect other people not you. Unless you are wearing high grade medical masks. It’s ignorance as to what the mask does that is the problem

WhiteMemento9

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well sorry but going by past experience I wouldn't put too much faith in the Irish civil service or the government for that matter, at the best of times they're a comedy of errors nevermind in the face of a global crisis. I'd trust their Belgian, german, Dutch or Austrian counterparts before I'd hang my hopes on them getting it right.

The country has been run incompetently for decades and we've had chance after chance to change it and we haven't. We're going to pay the price for it now like we did in 2009 and it'll be costly indeed. Anyone who thinks its a simple case of staying at home until August and it'll all be grand is lying to themselves.

If that is the case then we hold tight and let the nations we trust the most give us data and experience that we can trust to enact our own plan which is what is playing out at the moment. No one really knows what they are at during this and they are all shooting in the dark. Some countries took a moonshot and got away with it and everyone applauds like they are some kinds of geniuses when the reality is they took a calculated gamble which paid off. If it had backfired they would be hailed as monsters.

We all access situations in our personal lives, take gambles when appropriate after weighing up risk versus reward. Very few of us would take gambles which involve endanering our own lives and that is the kind of high stakes game currently is being asked of governments.

As another poster pointed on this page, memory seems in short supply of where we and other countires where only a short time back.

cian68

ismat wrote: »

It’s nothing to do with stigma. Masks protect other people not you. Unless you are wearing high grade medical masks. It’s ignorance as to what the mask does that is the problem

Isn't wearing it to protect other people a good thing?

LiquidZeb

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

If that is the case then we hold tight and let the nations we trust the most give us data and experience that we can trust to enact our own plan which is what is playing out at the moment. No one really knows what they are at during this and they are all shooting in the dark. Some countries took a moonshot and got away with it and everyone applauds like they are some kinds of geniuses when the reality is they took a calculated gamble which paid off. If it had backfired they would be hailed as monsters.

We all access situations in our personal lives, take gambles when appropriate after weighing up risk versus reward. Very few of us would take gambles which involve endanering our own lives and that is the kind of high stakes game currently is being asked of governments.

As another poster pointed on this page, memory seems in short supply of where we and other countires where only a short time back.

I can see where you're coming from but the banks won't accept that argument when it comes to mortgages on homes and businesses, same with landlords. We're talking thousands of people claiming benefits for months who might not have jobs to go back to in sectors that could be decimated for years to come.

uli84

SusieBlue wrote: »

It hasn’t been confirmed yet, but whether it’ll be a necessary measure for reopening or not is still under discussion.
How you will enforce something like that in a room of 2yr old remains to be seen, they have no concept of personal space. It’s highly impractical and a very unfair burden to put on the childcare profession, not to mention how detrimental it is to the kids development.

I saw an article earlier on the measures schools & nurseries in the UK are taking to reopen earlier and it made for some sad reading.

It sounds absolutely grim, there is to be less than 10 kids to a classroom and they all have to sit 2m apart. They won’t be able to have any contact with each other or their teacher.
No PE, no games and no sports. No playing with toys or other educational equipment.
They’re putting stickers on the ground 2m apart to ensure the kids are socially distanced at break time, and different year groups won’t be allowed mix with each other during lunch either.
The teachers won’t even be allowed to correct the homework. They’ll be encouraged to bring in their own PPE as it won’t be supplied by their department of education.
It sounds like a nightmare.

Out of curiosity, i am assuming that since primary schools in Sweden never closed they operate as normal, anybody knows? My worry is there will be now another paranoia big time with measures as described above or I wouldn’t be surprised if they came with something even “better”

NegativeCreep

ismat wrote: »

It’s nothing to do with stigma. Masks protect other people not you. Unless you are wearing high grade medical masks. It’s ignorance as to what the mask does that is the problem

That still doesn’t address why you think it’s so nutty that someone might wear one alone in their car though

WhiteMemento9

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from but the banks won't accept that argument when it comes to mortgages on homes

They will if the government mandates it. We are in unprecedented times and as such that should include unprecedented measures to help people, business and the economy. I think that is the case currently and will be the case going forward. Economies all around Europe are in far worse positions than us. This is a global problem and, I can only hope that it will be tackled as such with a shared burden and responsibility that this wasn't caused by the people.

If we lived in a better place as a global world we would condem those who tried to put the economy above the people but unfortuenly we currently seem to fetishise those countries. Should get people thinking. Is this really the best we can do?

LiquidZeb

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

They will if the government mandates it. We are in unprecedented times and as such that should include unprecedented measures to help people, business and the economy. I think that is the case currently and will be the case going forward. Economies all around Europe are in far worse positions than us. This is a global problem and, I can only hope that it will be tackled as such with a shared burden and responsibility that this wasn't caused by the people.

If we lived in a better place as a global world we would condem those who tried to put the economy above the people but unfortuenly we currently seem to fetishise those countries. Should get people thinking. Is this really the best we can do?

What you're saying is nice in theory but it'll never happen. Come October there'll be the mother and father of all budgets. There'll be income and vat tax hikes, cuts all across the public service board, there'll probably be a USC style deduction introduced too. There won't be some miracle quick fix for this. If people want a lockdown going into August and beyond then I've not problem with that. I just hope they realize that there'll be consequences for it, and they won't be exempt from them.

WhiteMemento9

LiquidZeb wrote: »

What you're saying is nice in theory but it'll never happen. Come October there'll be the mother and father of all budgets. There'll be income and vat tax hikes, cuts all across the public service board, there'll probably be a USC style deduction introduced too. There won't be some miracle quick fix for this. If people want a lockdown going into August and beyond then I've not problem with that. I just hope they realize that there'll be consequences for it, and they won't be exempt from them.

Those aren't simple problems. Firstly we are borrowing on an already massive debt so adding to it is like Beszo collecting another couple of million for rounding go. In the great scheme of things it doesn't make much difference especially when we are borrowing at historically low interest rates. The other issue is that if you aren't supporting people with extra money then the rebound in the economy won't happen as people simply won't have money to spend when we come out of lockdown. That will be coupled with extreme low consmer confidence to spend but to also visit places out of rational fear that things still aren't safe. Loads of people have talked about all these countires opening up, fulll stream ahead but none of the data in Europe has come back yet to indicate people are buying into it and until they do it is all rather pointless.

Iamabeliever

ismat wrote: »

It’s nothing to do with stigma. Masks protect other people not you. Unless you are wearing high grade medical masks. It’s ignorance as to what the mask does that is the problem

So what your saying is, if everyone wore a mask, everyone will be protected?

wakka12

https://charter97.org/en/news/2020/5/14/376416/

Speaking of Belarus a doctor in the capital claims deaths to be under reported by a factor of 10x

ceadaoin.

SusieBlue wrote: »

It hasn’t been confirmed yet, but whether it’ll be a necessary measure for reopening or not is still under discussion.
How you will enforce something like that in a room of 2yr old remains to be seen, they have no concept of personal space. It’s highly impractical and a very unfair burden to put on the childcare profession, not to mention how detrimental it is to the kids development.

I saw an article earlier on the measures schools & nurseries in the UK are taking to reopen earlier and it made for some sad reading.

It sounds absolutely grim, there is to be less than 10 kids to a classroom and they all have to sit 2m apart. They won’t be able to have any contact with each other or their teacher.
No PE, no games and no sports. No playing with toys or other educational equipment.
They’re putting stickers on the ground 2m apart to ensure the kids are socially distanced at break time, and different year groups won’t be allowed mix with each other during lunch either.
The teachers won’t even be allowed to correct the homework. They’ll be encouraged to bring in their own PPE as it won’t be supplied by their department of education.
It sounds like a nightmare.

That sounds absolutely miserable. Poor kids.

Schools here aren't going back until the new school year, but they are finished at the end of this month anyway, back in August. No way would I send my child back under those conditions. She's better off at home than that

PTH2009

as an avid gig goer im getting cold sweats looking at old gig footage with massive crowds. We were all none the wiser back then but i think we would be none the wiser now even knowing a deadly virus is around

Heckler

ABBA need to get their act together. A new song would hit a billion virus hits. It might be the vaccine.

Conte..

Who's running the country atm

Politicians all gone very quiet

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Whats your take on Belarus? President is also a nutter. But no body bags or mass graves. They must be just tougher than Brazil people?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/may/09/thousands-attend-belarus-military-parade-despite-pandemic-video

They too shouldve locked down back in January right? to be safe?

Belarus are having close 1000 confirmed cases with a slow and steady increase, yet only a handful of deaths. Do you believe their numbers? They also expelled Russian journalists who questioned their numbers.

CruelSummer

This main headline in the Independent says Ireland’s approach is conservative, is taking too long and will lose 200,000+ jobs.
How can the government stand over what they’re doing to the country?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bank-bailout-risk-in-covid-threat-to-jobs-39211137.html

Stark

ismat wrote: »

I’ve seen lots of people driving on their own and wearing masks. Obviously they have no concept of what the mask actually does as it cannot be helpful in any way while in their own car unaccompanied

People have answered that repeatedly and there's info on the government site about it. To use a mask properly, you wash your hands put it on, then you don't touch it again until you're in a position to rewash your hands while taking it off. For most people this means the easiest thing is to put it on at home, get in the car to go to the shops, then leave it the **** alone till you get back home.

uli84

CruelSummer wrote: »

This main headline in the Independent says Ireland’s approach is conservative, is taking too long and will lose 200,000+ jobs.
How can the government stand over what they’re doing to the country?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bank-bailout-risk-in-covid-threat-to-jobs-39211137.html

That’s weird allright, has any of them at least got the balls to acknowledge this?

SEPT 23 1989

CruelSummer wrote: »

This main headline in the Independent says Ireland’s approach is conservative, is taking too long and will lose 200,000+ jobs.
How can the government stand over what they’re doing to the country?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bank-bailout-risk-in-covid-threat-to-jobs-39211137.html

The small business bailout needs to happen very quickly

What they are offering now is nowhere near good enough

I don't think people could stomach bailing out banks again

Stormyteacup

CruelSummer wrote: »

This main headline in the Independent says Ireland’s approach is conservative, is taking too long and will lose 200,000+ jobs.
How can the government stand over what they’re doing to the country?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bank-bailout-risk-in-covid-threat-to-jobs-39211137.html

They’re taking the route of zero responsibility.

Anything goes wrong, it’s on NPHET.

There is much that can be salvaged with strong leaders taking back control of the ship, but unlikely to happen.

There is optimism with new Dail Committee - expect to hear from the government ‘dail committee recommends...’ to replace ‘NPHET recommends...’ over the coming weeks. EU may be another source of direction for government too.

Those that should be making tough decisions will continue to sit this one out.

pjohnson

"Dice Bar" on Facebook is quite amusing last few days!

Have gone full blown conspiracy the last day or so!


While plenty will blame the virus his own carry on has lost him a lot of custom.

CruelSummer

CruelSummer wrote: »

This main headline in the Independent says Ireland’s approach is conservative, is taking too long and will lose 200,000+ jobs.
How can the government stand over what they’re doing to the country?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bank-bailout-risk-in-covid-threat-to-jobs-39211137.html

All they have to say is that one life is more important than the economy and the people will eat it up.

MrDavid1976

CruelSummer wrote: »

This main headline in the Independent says Ireland’s approach is conservative, is taking too long and will lose 200,000+ jobs.
How can the government stand over what they’re doing to the country?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bank-bailout-risk-in-covid-threat-to-jobs-39211137.html

That is a positive to see this. At least people will now realise the damage that will be done if we continue to follow the path we are on - and not just a few cranks on forums.

One would hope that people with FF and FG will start rattling the cages - news this weekend or Italy moving quicker the bizarre scenario that families cannot meet here but can fly to Italy for a pizza and beer will also certainly focus minds.

I am also a little perplexed that the Taoiseach and Ministers were sniggering about curtains on Friday after seeing this report.

Paddygreen

Stormyteacup wrote: »

There is much that can be salvaged with strong leaders taking back control of the ship, but unlikely to happen.

Dr Leo is the strongest leader this country has had since Brian Boru, he is the backbone of Ireland, a monolith of exemplary leadership. He has proven himself, forged the cutting edge of his trusty sword of leadership over many a fire, and honed it’s razor edge while fighting the war on coronavirus. I have no doubt there will be statues of this giant among men within our lifetime.

MrDavid1976

Stormyteacup wrote: »

They’re taking the route of zero responsibility.

Anything goes wrong, it’s on NPHET.

There is much that can be salvaged with strong leaders taking back control of the ship, but unlikely to happen.

There is optimism with new Dail Committee - expect to hear from the government ‘dail committee recommends...’ to replace ‘NPHET recommends...’ over the coming weeks. EU may be another source of direction for government too.

Those that should be making tough decisions will continue to sit this one out.

I am not optimistic about the Dail Committee - it is 4 weeks too late. Tony will spend the whole time ducking and diving, and the media will follow the health only line.