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Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭moonage


    fits wrote: »
    I’m not really following this thread anymore but just posting to say this. I know of two men who are/were in ICU with this. Both under 65. Both healthy. The very best case scenario is long term health issues. One has had 3 strokes. The other is still on a ventilator weeks at this stage. The fatality rate does not tell the whole story with this virus.

    These sort of anecdotal accounts of outliers still don't alter the fact that the age and risk profile of deaths essentially corresponds to normal mortality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭John.Icy


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Would you give over ffs. Did you read the % so far of fully recovered cases in Ireland? The evidence is there to support my experience so far. Majority of the media are out to scare people.

    Where did I say everyone was suffering from the articles issues? Where did I dispute the percentage of Irish cases that have recovered? An article giving an insight of some people who had longer issues is not scaremongering. They literally give a figure on research showing a low amount of people having longer term effects. Again, your anecdotal evidence of your cousins is as merited as someone else's. Stop being ridiculous over the media where it just isn't justified.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    I didn't say it wouldn't. But restrictions being lifted does not necessarily align with people not maintaining social distancing.

    I asked how we got to practically zero community transmission without masks.

    9 weeks of unprecedented restrictions and we are still getting community transmission.

    Perhaps if masks/face coverings had been promoted from the start we'd have reached this point a lot sooner.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Well that’s good news then. It means the virus is less lethal than we thought.

    It is accepted by most scientists and doctors that the death rate from covid is less than 0.5% and potentially significantly less than that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,510 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    You know you just gotta laugh at those who constantly call anybody with a bit of cop on who was in favour of the lockdown hermits, doom and gloomers and many other things.
    These people who name-call like that are the types that are responsible for many deaths from this thing but are too thick to realise it. Hopefully some day they'll realise the hurt, pain and suffering they caused through willful negligence. They deserve to know the damage they done.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    I didn't say it wouldn't. But restrictions being lifted does not necessarily align with people not maintaining social distancing.

    I asked how we got to practically zero community transmission without masks.

    How do you believe zero community transmission when people with symptoms weren't being tested?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,623 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    John.Icy wrote: »
    Where did I say everyone was suffering from the articles issues? Where did I dispute the percentage of Irish cases that have recovered? An article giving an insight of some people who had longer issues is not scaremongering. They literally give a figure on research showing a low amount of people having longer term effects. Again, your anecdotal evidence of your cousins is as merited as someone else's. Stop being ridiculous over the media where it just isn't justified.

    People can have long term effects from any illness so it pointless posting sh*te like that. At least we know media scaremongering works, you fell nicely for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,510 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    While I agree betting shops especially online should be more proactive in who they serve I do not see why the government should act as a nanny state like your suggesting. Should they do the same for other things people can become addicted to
    I'm not asking the thread off topic any further but I have ideas about many things that could be improved.
    I think the government should act as a nanny state as far as activities that can instantly destroy families financially are concerned.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,623 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    eagle eye wrote: »
    You know you just gotta laugh at those who constantly call anybody with a bit of cop on who was in favour of the lockdown hermits, doom and gloomers and many other things.
    These people who name-call like that are the types that are responsible for many deaths from this thing but are too thick to realise it. Hopefully some day they'll realise the hurt, pain and suffering they caused through willful negligence. They deserve to know the damage they done.

    Interesting post but if you see how Ireland is doing your post becomes total nonsense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    A third of hospital patients develop dangerous blood clots - BBC

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52662065


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭John.Icy


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    People can have long term effects from any illness so it pointless posting sh*te like that. At least we know media scaremongering works, you fell nicely for it.

    I am not scared at all and have fallen for nothing. I am very aware how different diseases have long term effects. That article discusses such a case and mentions a few others experienced similar. At no point does it suggest this is the COVID-19 outcome for all, i.e. actual scaremongering. The only fear here is your irrational one of a harmless news article.


    I'll say no more. There are genuine sources of fear out there and this was not one. Feel however you want about the big bad terrifying media machine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    eagle eye wrote: »
    You know you just gotta laugh at those who constantly call anybody with a bit of cop on who was in favour of the lockdown hermits, doom and gloomers and many other things.
    These people who name-call like that are the types that are responsible for many deaths from this thing but are too thick to realise it. Hopefully some day they'll realise the hurt, pain and suffering they caused through willful negligence. They deserve to know the damage they done.

    Refusing to give intellectual assent to the lockdown is not responsible for any deaths.

    One of the most fervent pro-lockdown posters on here admitted he doesn't socially distance at work (said it wasn't possible).


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    How did we get to practically zero community transmission without masks so far?
    How do you believe zero community transmission when people with symptoms weren't being tested?

    Well I am only going on what the CMO has stated previously - that he believes it is close to zero.

    If community transmission is significant, even if people with symptoms weren't being tested, one would imagine that the hospitalisations and ICU figures would be a lot higher. But they aren't - and that's pretty much down to social distancing.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    GUARDIAN
    As Europe emerges from lockdown, the question hangs: was Sweden right?
    Simon Jenkins

    Stockholm gambled in its response to coronavirus, but neither its economy nor its healthcare system have collapsed


    Who on earth is right? We cannot all be right.

    One country has all but dropped off the Covid-19 radar: Sweden. Just two months ago, it held hands with Britain in rejecting total lockdown and trusting “social distancing”. Then on 23 March, Boris Johnson did a U-turn, leaving Sweden and, to a lesser extent, Germany, on its own. Since then the divergence has become radical and political. Sweden’s centre-left government, darling of Bernie Sanders and world liberalism, is suddenly lauded by the libertarian right.

    Like millions, I have become an armchair epidemiologist. The reason is instinctive. I am being ordered daily by my prime minister to live in fear of my life. I have come to exist in a miasma of R-rates, antigen tests, infection fatality ratios and “excess deaths”. Now, as Europe and the world emerge blearily to survey the wreckage of lockdown, the question is still left hanging. Was Sweden right?

    The one table that glares at us daily is the international league table of deaths per million. Even if the aggregates are unreliable, there is a crude reality to a body count. Yet the only conclusion to be drawn from the figures is that the league table is no help to policy.

    There is no correlation between fatalities and lockdown stringency. The most stringent lockdowns – as in China, Italy, Spain, New Zealand and Britain – have yielded both high and low deaths per million. Hi-tech has apparently “worked” in South Korea, but so has no-tech in Sweden. Sweden’s 319 deaths per million is far ahead of locked-down Norway’s 40 and Denmark’s 91, but it’s well behind locked-down UK’s 465 and Spain’s 569.

    Sweden’s light-touch policy is led by two scientists, Johan Giesecke and his protégé Anders Tegnell. The latter currently leads Stockholm’s strategy with daily matter-of-fact media appearances and 73% popular support. Unlike in politicised Britain, ministers do not regularly appear.

    Tegnell has been emphatic throughout. A degree of social distancing and avoiding crowds is enough. As for lockdown, “Nothing to do with [it] has a scientific basis.”

    To Giesecke, a mild-mannered veteran World Health Organization virologist, Covid-19 is “a tsunami sweeping the world”, but he notes that it threatens older, sick people above all. He admits that Sweden’s higher-than-average death rate shows it made mistakes. “At first we failed to shield the old and vulnerable.” Its economy has suffered from a collapse in exports, but it has kept itself open and at work, and has not seen the surge in “all-causes excess deaths” of the UK and other high-lockdown states. This surge seems to be increasing due to a partial collapse in other areas of critical health care.

    Where I find Sweden’s policy more of a gamble is in its faith in developing a “collective immunity” that will protect it from future outbreaks. Giesecke talks of half of all Swedes probably infected in some degree, and tests suggest that a quarter of people in Stockholm have the virus and will probably – but by no means certainly – be protected against any resurgence. This compares with just 2% of people in Oslo. That divergence in vulnerability can only be tested in the event of a second spike.

    More to the point, there is no evidence of mass immunity having developed anywhere else. In Germany another lockdown sceptic, the virologist Hendrik Streek, thinks countries could be approaching one third immunity, which could be hopeful. But as policy, the idea is unnerving to many. Such was the fear generated by “herd immunity” in Britain in March that the phrase itself has become barely mentionable.

    Yet according to Tegnell, whatever we think, “there is no other escape” but to find ways of living with this virus. There is no sign of a vaccine on the immediate horizon. We cannot ruin the world economy indefinitely. Better to concentrate on protecting our health services against it, should it return.

    The half-Swedish commentator Freddie Sayer has been closely monitoring this debate from the UK. He makes the point that with each passing week the rest of Europe moves steadily closer to imitating Sweden. It is doing so because modern economies – and their peoples – just cannot live with such crushing abnormality as they have seen these past two months.

    Britain now faces a challenge. I believe early criticism of Boris Johnson was unfair. He had a respectable case for proceeding on an evidence-based approach, had he only concentrated his attention on the high-risk health and care sectors. In his U-turn he opted for the politics of fear. He now has workers terrified of working, and parents terrified of school. He has frightened his economy into inertia.

    I share the view of scientists such as Cambridge’s David Spiegelhalter and Oxford’s Carl Heneghan that this virus is unprecedented in its infectiousness, but that it will pass. The chief variant will prove to be how governments reacted, and the toll they took on the rest of their healthcare and the wider economy.

    Sweden gambled in its response, but so did the rest of the world. South Africa’s lockdown threatens it with economic and political catastrophe. The UN warns that the world could lose four years of growth at a cost of $8.5 trillion. Famine and further disease will be rife. That was surely the greater gamble.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    How do you assign blame for infection from a droplet-transmitted virus anyway? Scapegoating is ridiculously wrong in this instance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    How do you believe zero community transmission when people with symptoms weren't being tested?

    If it was rampant the hospitals would be full, the ICUs full. Neither are.

    300 odd in acute hospitals last night and around 50 in ICU. If community transmition was rampant both would be massively higher.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭jackboy


    If it was rampant the hospitals would be full, the ICUs full. Neither are.

    300 odd in acute hospitals last night and around 50 in ICU. If community transmition was rampant both would be massively higher.

    So do you not believe that at least tens of thousands in Ireland have caught the virus?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    If it was rampant the hospitals would be full, the ICUs full. Neither are.

    300 odd in acute hospitals last night and around 50 in ICU. If community transmition was rampant both would be massively higher.

    We are still recording between 100-200 new daily transmissions, even this long into both a lockdown and social distancing.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    jackboy wrote: »
    So do you not believe that at least tens of thousands in Ireland have caught the virus?

    Perhaps they have. The 'lockdown' was not designed to eliminate the virus, but to slow it down to allow the health service manage.

    It has achieved that and hopefully the restrictions being lifted will still allow the health service to manage the presumably (hopefully small) increases that follow.

    Life and society must go on. We can't stay locked in to stop transmission forever. And the low numbers that have been achieved to date have been achieved largely without masks. That's all I am saying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    jackboy wrote: »
    So do you not believe that at least tens of thousands in Ireland have caught the virus?

    Did I say that ??

    Of course many have. The official case numbers are nowhere near what the total actually infected will have been, alot of that will have been down to the barriers to get a test.

    It's quite simple though the more virus in the community the more seriously ill people end up in hospital, regardless of test or not if your in a bad way you end up in hospital. ICU admissions are down to 1 per day on average and hosptial admissions per day are on average 15. Yesterday it was 8 people admitted.

    Quite clear indicators that the level of infection in the community is nowhere near what it was when at one point nearly 1000 were in hospital.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 124 ✭✭Birdy


    It is scandalous the way they have done a u-turn on homeware stores.

    There should be press briefings at the weekend. There should also be a member of government present at the daily briefings.

    It is laughable how much power the CMO currently holds in this country. Scrap that. It is scary. There is nothing gradual about our reopening. It is static. But no one seems to be challenging Tony. Although he doesn't take too kindly to being challenged.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bekker


    If it was rampant the hospitals would be full, the ICUs full. Neither are.

    300 odd in acute hospitals last night and around 50 in ICU. If community transmition was rampant both would be massively higher.
    There is a great different between zero community transmission and rampant community transmission, evidence is lacking for either extreme.

    Conclusions on hospitals and ICU numbers are not rational given the recognised variability in the effects of COVID-19 on individuals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Quite clear indicators that the level of infection in the community is nowhere near what it was when at one point nearly 1000 were in hospital.

    Not necessarily. When it comes to reducing deaths and hospital cases, it is not the number of infected that matters, it is who is infected. If the virus gets into the likes of nursing homes there will be carnage. If it spreads throughout the young healthy population there will not be large numbers of dead and hospital cases.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭Onesea


    Everyday they uncover 100s of new cases, is it a safe assumption to assume maybe a couple of 100k people are carrying this virus in Ireland.
    The Santa Clara County case in Cali comes to mind, they expected they had 7k cases but it turned out to be over 400k.

    The uncovering of so many cases per day simply builds the case that this isn't such a bad dose.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Yet again, children are vilified during this time. Despite the fact there are studies emerging showing they neither spread the illness or are seriously effected by it for the most part. How can we as a society accept this as ok? Children should not be locked away from the world like this, it's disgraceful.

    Children aren't being vilified.

    There is absolutely no need to bring children shopping at this time.

    It has already been mentioned above that a family say of 4 arrives that results in 3 people waiting longer to get in.

    A hardware store isn't the place for children at the best of times.

    I fully agree with staff not wanting extra unnecessary people in the store.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Non solum non ambulabit


    There is absolutely no need to bring children shopping at this time.

    Single parents with no childcare options would not agree with that statement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Italy reports 875 new cases of coronavirus and 153 new deaths.

    Total of 224,760 cases and 31,763 deaths.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,522 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    92 new cases and 15 deaths.

    RIP to those who died, but it's nice to be back to down to double digits.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Is it possible that the government will let restaurants and cafés have limited seating for customers at an earlier date than scheduled?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Italy reports 875 new cases of coronavirus and 153 new deaths.

    Total of 224,760 cases and 31,763 deaths.

    And Spain also with its lowest death figures for some time, with 104 today.


This discussion has been closed.
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