Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings

boring accountant · 15-05-2020 11:44AM

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

It's like an alternative universe in here at times. Same posters would be moaning about the gubberment if they sat on their hands and did nothing. Bizarre.

Not bizarre at all. No one wants the government to sit on their hands and do nothing so it wouldn’t be hypocritical to criticise the government for doing nothing.

Most of boards will never challenge the government view. It’s a wonder why they ever even join a discussion group.

15-05-2020 11:47AM

growleaves wrote: »

Oh my Lord. We can only compare countries that did have a lockdown and those that didn't.

The obsessive Swede-o-mania on this site is because it is reasonable to assume that Sweden is similar to other (Northern) European countries.

Yet posters have tried to dodge this and say that Sweden is different culturally, geographically etc.

If you're saying differences between countries are too great for lockdown to have a significant effect on outcomes, then you are admitting that the effect of lockdown is trivial

Look at the daily charts for Sweden and compare to any European country that had a lockdown. Everywhere else has peaked and fallen, while Sweden peaked and plateaued and they are still having 4000+ cases and 500 deaths a week. R0 at or above 1. Rest of Europe R0 significantly below 1. That was what the lockdown achieved. It did not prevent the rise, but has caused the R0 to drop to a rate where if we now move towards the Swedish social distancing model, an R0 of close to 1 will maintain and infection rate at a fraction of that in Sweden

Wibbs · 15-05-2020 11:47AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You need to get on the side of reason and demand lockdown to be lifted way ahead of schedule.

Slovenia isnt much more superior than Ireland, and their healthcare funding is less than Ireland.

We messed up initial proceedings but it doesnt mean that we need to mess up for next 3 months and put 10000 + out of work permanently and have 30bn budget deficit to deal with in October.

I agree, but in order to do that we then have to enact some of the policies of nations who have already to have done much better and copy them. We're not and we haven't been and if we do reopen now like them, we could be facing a major uptick in cases and deaths. As it stands our deaths are over ten times higher than the Czechs and many multiples higher than the Koreans, Taiwanese etc. There's more of this virus out there in this country than in those.

boring accountant · 15-05-2020 11:47AM

polesheep wrote: »

Lots of healthcare workers went from five to three days, but the three day shifts are 13 hours (ward shifts). I don't know of any nurse or doctor who wants to be given hero status but when you suddenly find yourself doing random night and weekend shifts without childcare, it ain't easy.

I’ve seen more than enough nurses posting pics of their faces on Instagram after wearing PPE all day looking for attention and adulation to know that there definitely is a subset that wants to be seen as heroes. Some people love the attention.

growleaves · 15-05-2020 11:50AM

Coronavirus: Health officials give green light to easing of restrictions from Monday

Seamai · 15-05-2020 11:51AM

pgj2015 wrote: »

I agree. Its like some of the shopkeepers in Spain who hate tourists and look at you like you are scum for some reason. They are probably crying out for tourists now.

I bet they are, it's like "we'll take your money but we don't want you". The last time I was in Barcelona I was taken aback at the "Tourists Fúck Off Home" graffiti. While I get their frustration I wonder have they made the connection between tourists and the amount of money they pump into the local economy both directly and indirectly.

polesheep · 15-05-2020 11:58AM

boring accountant wrote: »

I’ve seen more than enough nurses posting pics of their faces on Instagram after wearing PPE all day looking for attention and adulation to know that there definitely is a subset that wants to be seen as heroes. Some people love the attention.

Of course, nurses are no different to any other cohort in society. That's kinda what I was saying. The media milked 'bringing the medics home' for all it was worth and any medic I know thought it was cringeworthy.

growleaves · 15-05-2020 12:02PM

polesheep wrote: »

Of course, nurses are no different to any other cohort in society. That's kinda what I was saying. The media milked 'bringing the medics home' for all it was worth and any medic I know thought it was cringeworthy.

Not just the media though.

Leo Varadkar's speech mentioned them and large billboards all over the place.

lord quackinton · 15-05-2020 12:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm laughing at this. I am a temporary clerical officer in the Civil service and I earn €385 a week , yes €35 more than the Covid payments that I am processing every day for everyone who is safely at home.

If we were all fired and the Public Sector burnt (!) who would process these Covid payments that the country is living on, illness payments, pensions, payments for disabled children and their carers, grants that everyone from Bus companies, to schools to the tourist sector are screaming for now, who would collect taxes that pay for most government funding?

firstly there should be no lockdown and no 350 covid payment.
then no covid payment is needed to be processed weekly.
your role then is not necessary and you are free to come work in the real world i.e private sector

i dont care about people, charities, schools and those who live permanently off the welfare state. i will be honest here, i detest them.
reduce ALL taxes and cut public expenditure excluding capital projects but outsource all contracts awarded to private markets.

why should hard working private sector employees pay large taxes to fund the lavish employee wages of public sector, government funded semi states and charities and the generous social welfare programs that exist for the welfare class.

stephenjmcd · 15-05-2020 12:10PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0515/1138590-coronavirus-world/

polesheep · 15-05-2020 12:10PM

growleaves wrote: »

Not just the media though.

Leo Varadkar's speech mentioned them and large billboards all over the place.

Yep. And I would suggest that they were cynically used to promote the lockdown. The doctors returning from Australia had finished their contracts anyway and were heading off on holiday. There's now a whole host of newly qualified doctors stuck in Ireland fighting for the few positions available here. We haven't seen that in the media or being talked about by the Taoiseach.

Ginger n Lemon · 15-05-2020 12:11PM

lord quackinton wrote: »

firstly there should be no lockdown and no 350 covid payment.
then no covid payment is needed to be processed weekly.
your role then is not necessary and you are free to come work in the real world i.e private sector

i dont care about people, charities, schools and those who live permanently off the welfare state. i will be honest here, i detest them.
reduce ALL taxes and cut public expenditure excluding capital projects but outsource all contracts awarded to private markets.

why should hard working private sector employees pay large taxes to fund the lavish employee wages of public sector, government funded semi states and charities and the generous social welfare programs that exist for the welfare class.

Fully agree. and scrap that private hospital deal ASAP

"Private hospitals may pull out of the agreement which has seen the State take over their facilities during the Covid-19 crisis, if the HSE does not increase the number of patients it is sending them."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-private-hospitals-threaten-to-pull-out-of-state-deal-1.4253879

Lol i remember a poster from 1 week ago saying "its good that we have empty hospitals in case we need them". oh boy

its a bit like paying house insurance, mortgage on an empty house. its good to have in theory if you get kicked out of your current place, but actually no its not good at all.

Benimar · 15-05-2020 12:20PM

lord quackinton wrote: »

firstly there should be no lockdown and no 350 covid payment.
then no covid payment is needed to be processed weekly.
your role then is not necessary and you are free to come work in the real world i.e private sector

i dont care about people, charities, schools and those who live permanently off the welfare state. i will be honest here, i detest them.
reduce ALL taxes and cut public expenditure excluding capital projects but outsource all contracts awarded to private markets.

why should hard working private sector employees pay large taxes to fund the lavish employee wages of public sector, government funded semi states and charities and the generous social welfare programs that exist for the welfare class.

Well colour me surprised :eek::rolleyes:

Stark · 15-05-2020 12:20PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote:

The masks are slipping there lads.

First post is ridiculous but I find the second post hard to disagree with. I don't like that we have a two-tier health system, it's grossly unfair but after seeing what happens when you put everything under HSE management, you can see why it's a necessary evil. Need to sort out the incompetence there before we can safely bring everything under public ownership. Or maybe have an access for everyone system but with some hospitals allowed operate independently without HSE interference (which I think is the SláinteCare model?)

Ginger n Lemon · 15-05-2020 12:28PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Ah I agree with him on the hospitals, it was the fact he said he fully agreed with the first post I was getting at

Just seeing if anyone pays attention to my posts.

It seems like atleast 2 people do, my work is appreciated. :pac:;)

PS #scrapprivatehospitaldeal

jibber5000 · 15-05-2020 12:32PM

polesheep wrote: »

Of course, nurses are no different to any other cohort in society. That's kinda what I was saying. The media milked 'bringing the medics home' for all it was worth and any medic I know thought it was cringeworthy.

It was beyond cringeworthy. Especially when most of these doctors were earning >100k in Australia & New Zealand and were flown home for free.

What makes it worse is that the vast majority arnt working as the hospitals don't need them.

Hospitals are overstaffed due to the low patient volume.
Yet there are another 1,000 junior doctors starting work on Monday to further oversaturate the system.

15-05-2020 12:46PM

polesheep wrote: »

Yep. And I would suggest that they were cynically used to promote the lockdown. The doctors returning from Australia had finished their contracts anyway and were heading off on holiday. There's now a whole host of newly qualified doctors stuck in Ireland fighting for the few positions available here. We haven't seen that in the media or being talked about by the Taoiseach.

They've all been guaranteed internships....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/taoiseach-pledges-that-1-000-medicine-graduates-will-be-offered-an-internship-1.4231678

boring accountant · 15-05-2020 12:50PM

jibber5000 wrote: »

It was beyond cringeworthy. Especially when most of these doctors were earning >100k in Australia & New Zealand and were flown home for free.

What makes it worse is that the vast majority arnt working as the hospitals don't need them.

Hospitals are overstaffed due to the low patient volume.
Yet there are another 1,000 junior doctors starting work on Monday to further oversaturate the system.

The worst was when they were given apartments rent free. Existing medics who have worked in the system all this time were very put out by that.

15-05-2020 12:56PM

jibber5000 wrote: »

It was beyond cringeworthy. Especially when most of these doctors were earning >100k in Australia & New Zealand and were flown home for free.

What makes it worse is that the vast majority arnt working as the hospitals don't need them.

Hospitals are overstaffed due to the low patient volume.
Yet there are another 1,000 junior doctors starting work on Monday to further oversaturate the system.

Didn't you do medicine as a postgraduate? It's a bit rich talking about job saturation. Post graduate medicine in places like UL is the reason that the market (for doctors) is over-saturated.

Is it a case of "I'm already on the boat. Pull up the ladder."

Romantic Ireland is dead and gone. It's with O'Leary in the grave

wakka12 · 15-05-2020 12:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

growleaves, do you think lockdowns saved lives?

There is no argument that the lockdown did not save countless lives, short term at least. Whether it simply pushed deaths to a later date is a different discussion

15-05-2020 01:02PM

lord quackinton wrote: »

firstly there should be no lockdown and no 350 covid payment.
then no covid payment is needed to be processed weekly.
your role then is not necessary and you are free to come work in the real world i.e private sector

i dont care about people, charities, schools and those who live permanently off the welfare state. i will be honest here, i detest them.

why should hard working private sector employees pay large taxes to fund the lavish employee wages of public sector, government funded semi states and charities and the generous social welfare programs that exist for the welfare class.

I've worked in the Private Sector all my life, I only joined the Public Sector 6 months ago. I know the difference. These days I am very happy to have a job and a salary no matter how low. I earned FAR more in the Private sector so I expected to pay more taxes (into the Goverment coffers which pay so many social benefits we will all need in time so I do not begrudge it). The security in Public sector outweighs Private sector. The work is menial, repetitive and monotonous, but at this stage of my life its fine, no stress, I know what I'm doing, flexible working time ....enough pros for me. Far more stress in the private sector.

pgj2015 · 15-05-2020 01:04PM

Did you hear the doctor being interviewed on newstalk this morning? she was talking about how most european countries are sending there kids back to school soon, and they are already back in Denmark and the cases haven't shot up but Holohan doesnt believe the people saying children dont spread the virus like they first thought.

we really are unlucky to have someone like Holohan calling the shots. its depressing.

riclad · 15-05-2020 01:06PM

The rate of infection has gone down. The lockdown saved 1000,s of lives simply by keeping people who had the virus
From travelling to rural areas and towns. Of course most people who get the virus recover after a few weeks. Look at America it is now spreading all over the country and the
no of infected people is increasing every day
We have to compare ourselves with other country's to work out how important lockdowns are and how it stops the virus spreading

wakka12 · 15-05-2020 01:10PM

pgj2015 wrote: »

Did you hear the doctor being interviewed on newstalk this morning? she was talking about how most european countries are sending there kids back to school soon, and they are already back in Denmark and the cases haven't shot up but Holohan doesnt believe the people saying children dont spread the virus like they first thought.

we really are unlucky to have someone like Holohan calling the shots. its depressing.

I would say he is right to question whether children cannot spread the virus, it seems bizarre, they can contract it but not spread it, no apparent explainations given as to why that might be.

Few new cases associated with school openings occurring is probably more to do with the hourly handwashing, class sizes reduced to a third of their original size, mandatory 2m distancing, reduced school hours and outdoor classes. BUt Ireland should be doing this, there is of course no risk of widespread infection with this level of restriction

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-how-denmark-fared-on-first-days-of-reopened-schools-1.4231385

Ginger n Lemon · 15-05-2020 01:10PM

Reality bites.

Poster here who works at HSE, watch out

"NHS staff and key workers risking their lives in the coronavirus battle may face a two-year pay freeze as recession hits Britain.

A Treasury paper says axing public sector wage rises could save £6.5billion."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-coronavirus-heroes-face-two-22023781

jibber5000 · 15-05-2020 01:11PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Didn't you do medicine as a postgraduate? It's a bit rich talking about job saturation. Post graduate medicine in places like UL is the reason that the market (for doctors) is over-saturated.

Is it a case of "I'm already on the boat. Pull up the ladder."

Romantic Ireland is dead and gone. It's with O'Leary in the grave

I'm specifically talking about the rush to lionise those returning home from Oz as heroes, free flights, free accomdation etc when most of them were going to be coming home anyway to start scheme jobs.

The market is definitely not oversaturated in normal circumstances.

But this year due to guaranteeing all international graduates jobs, starting interns two months early and no junior doctors going to Australia in July, we're going to be oversaturated.

seamus · 15-05-2020 01:12PM

pgj2015 wrote: »

Did you hear the doctor being interviewed on newstalk this morning? she was talking about how most european countries are sending there kids back to school soon, and they are already back in Denmark and the cases haven't shot up but Holohan doesnt believe the people saying children dont spread the virus like they first thought.

we really are unlucky to have someone like Holohan calling the shots. its depressing.

Seriously, this is like chinese whispers, but with medical data.

Holohan didn't say he "doesn't believe" the people who claim children don't spread the virus. Merely that the evidence so far to support the assertion is still small and far from definite.

Denmark has sent kids back to school with strict distancing and other processes in place. The fact that they've seen no jump in cases, could mean that these measures are working, not that the kids can't spread it.

Any road, it's too late in the year now. I've no interest in sending the kids back to primary school for six weeks, especially if it's going to require complicated hygiene measures.

pgj2015 · 15-05-2020 01:12PM

riclad wrote: »

The rate of infection has gone down. The lockdown saved 1000,s of lives simply by keeping people who had the virus
From travelling to rural areas and towns. Of course most people who get the virus recover after a few weeks. Look at America it is now spreading all over the country and the
no of infected people is increasing every day
We have to compare ourselves with other country's to work out how important lockdowns are and how it stops the virus spreading

I didnt know this until someone put up the article but Irish cases = 23,827, Irish deaths = 1,506

slovinia cases = 1,500 slovinia deaths = 103. they have a population of 2 million by the way.

so it shows you how badly Ireland has done even with this lockdown. we have nothing to be thanking Holohan for in my opinion.

is_that_so · 15-05-2020 01:13PM

pgj2015 wrote: »

Did you hear the doctor being interviewed on newstalk this morning? she was talking about how most european countries are sending there kids back to school soon, and they are already back in Denmark and the cases haven't shot up but Holohan doesnt believe the people saying children dont spread the virus like they first thought.

we really are unlucky to have someone like Holohan calling the shots. its depressing.

It was the fact that it was such a small study he questioned. No schools till September at this point.

hmmm · 15-05-2020 01:14PM

pgj2015 wrote: »

Did you hear the doctor being interviewed on newstalk this morning? she was talking about how most european countries are sending there kids back to school soon, and they are already back in Denmark and the cases haven't shot up but Holohan doesnt believe the people saying children dont spread the virus like they first thought.

we really are unlucky to have someone like Holohan calling the shots. its depressing.

We can't be making decisions based on "belief", we make decisions based on science and there is still a lot unknown about kids and this virus. The Irish government is taking a conservative approach, and I think most people are happy with that - let other countries experiment on their kids. If it works great, we'll open the schools.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings