Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

KrustyUCC

stephenjmcd wrote: »

From RTE
A draft document from the Italian government says free movement within separate regions of the country will be allowed from 18 May.

Only 2 months before we can even freely move within our own counties

Very frustrating how slow our plan is

Are we really over 2 months behind Italy?

daithi7

Rant : I was listening to Stephen Donnelly on newstalk this am, shadow health minister talking about the 115 m per week being spent (squandered more like) on private hospitals which are only 40% utilised, now that the pubic sector, incompetent HSE monolith have taken over running them....

Worse, the state claims agency have written to any rivate consultants who are working pro bono to inform then that any test results that they request for patients (assumedly cos they're really concerned about them) will not be processed cos they're not part of the new system.

Grrrrrrrrr, if I could find the stupid civil servant who signed off on that really dumb letter, & refusal of action, I would beat 10 shades of sugar out of them.....

Then I'd send them to a private consultant and let the consultant inform them that the tests they ordered for them can't be done for them cos they're private!! Grrr grrr


Worse, the grossly inefficient machine that thr HSE is just want to extend their already unnecessary 3 month private healthcare takeover to 5 months.... just in case.

These people need to get real... we don't have all the resources in the world to n be mis allocating from real medicine to maybe medicine....

Also they should be processing all tests & scans private consultants request, like is that not too flippin obvious!? Grrrrrrr......

ChelseaRentBoy

MadYaker wrote: »

Do all these idiots not realise that the lockdown is the reason we didn't see scenes like Italy and Spain? Has everyone just forgot what happened there?

It's like an alternative universe in here at times. Same posters would be moaning about the gubberment if they sat on their hands and did nothing. Bizarre.

risteard7

risteard7 wrote: »

I'm actually delighted people are starting to see through HSE staff and their sense of entitlement. We have 2 patients in the Covid ward! Yes 2, and one of them will be discharged probably today or tomorrow. We have 12 empty beds on my unit out of 24, none of them are covid related. I like others have been asked to start taking annual leave!

None of us are "heroes" I cant buy into that crap. I've a job for life in the public sector with a pension, why would I complain? Nurse's have this sense of entitlement and love to blow how great they are. I see it everyday. Yes I'm sure certain Hospitals ICU departments were busy at some stage but not for long. I haven't had to shop for 8 weeks with all the food that has been dropped into us, while most people are struggling, but sure yea I'm a "hero" I just cant sit here and lie to say it's busy when it's not

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. The whole hero thing is a bit cringe. I prob did go the extra mile over the course of the last couple of months but I'm in no way a hero and I'm compensated reasonably for my time including overtime. At the end of the day, I'm just doing my job.

seamus

SNNUS wrote: »

The Netflix party will be over soon and reality will bite.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0515/1138560-donohoe-on-reopening-of-economy/

They'll extend to the end of July at least, perhaps the end of August.

growleaves

The luxury of hindsight is that it can make everything just fine. This has been a learning experience all round and one that we hope can make future responses to such situations the very best they can be.

Yes but that will only be possible using strict standards of honesty - which mightn't be forthcoming from politicians who may now face blame.

I was insta-sceptical because from looking at every pandemic in history there was never anything like 'locking down' a fifth or quarter of the planet. This was a very extreme and heavy-handed response that had no precedent, at least in terms of scale.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

They'll extend to the end of July at least, perhaps the end of August.

But the amount surely will be cut a little. Down to €200 perhaps, or €250. I think that it is a massive contributor to a public lethargy and lack of enthusiasm for moving out of this lockdown,

ChelseaRentBoy

daydorunrun wrote: »

Aren’t you the class act!

Amazing you presumed i was fat shaming her.

The poster compared her with Tubs who i'd consider slim. The poster then corrected herself by saying she has curves.

For the record i think she's a stunner and in no way was i implying she was overweight.

It's bizarre the way everyone takes offence to everything these days.

Micky 32

Corona20 wrote: »

I am truely sorry for that boys death.
But Jesus that post made me laugh.

Good you had a laugh. The point was it doesn’t matter how big or strong or fit you are the virus can still wipe you out.

Fann Linn

daithi7 wrote: »

Rant : I was listening to Stephen Donnelly on newstalk this am, shadow health minister talking about the 115 m per week being spent (squandered more like) on private hospitals which are only 40% utilised, now that the pubic sector, incompetent HSE monolith have taken over running them....

Worse, the state claims agency have written to any rivate consultants who are working pro bono to inform then that any test results that they request for patients (assumedly cos they're really concerned about them) will not be processed cos they're not part of the new system.

Grrrrrrrrr, if I could find the stupid civil servant who signed off on that really dumb letter, & refusal of action, I would beat 10 shades of sugar out of them.....

Then I'd send them to a private consultant and let the consultant inform them that the tests they ordered for them can't be done for them cos they're private!! Grrr grrr


Worse, the grossly inefficient machine that thr HSE is just want to extend their already unnecessary 3 month private healthcare takeover to 5 months.... just in case.

These people need to get real... we don't have all the resources in the world to n be mis allocating from real medicine to maybe medicine....

Also they should be processing all tests & scans private consultants request, like is that not too flippin obvious!? Grrrrrrr......

The same Stephen Donnelly, shadow health minister, who was quite happy to support FG and their health policies for the last 5 years or so?
Talk is cheap.

LiquidZeb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. The whole hero thing is a bit cringe. I prob did go the extra mile over the course of the last couple of months but I'm in no way a hero and I'm compensated reasonably for my time including overtime. At the end of the day, I'm just doing my job.

I take it back dazzler, you're not the threads Walter Mitty, you're it's '80's action hero.

risteard7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. The whole hero thing is a bit cringe. I prob did go the extra mile over the course of the last couple of months but I'm in no way a hero and I'm compensated reasonably for my time including overtime. At the end of the day, I'm just doing my job.

Yes and fair play but people look at Italy or Spain on sky News and think "oh Dublin or Cork must be the same" when it's nowhere near that level nor has it been.

ChelseaRentBoy

growleaves wrote: »

Yes but that will only be possible using strict standards of honesty - which mightn't be forthcoming from politicians who may now face blame.

I was insta-sceptical because from looking at every pandemic in history there was never anything like 'locking down' a fifth or quarter of the planet. This was a very extreme and heavy-handed response that had no precedent, at least in terms of scale.

Which was the exact reason for the payment. If it hadn't of been in place it would have been every man/woman for themselves.

I'd say they'll announce a 4 week extension of the 350 and then reduce it to 203 after that.

daithi7

Our response to Covid has been full of errors (e.g. testing, ppe, nursing homes, totally unnecessary , expensive takeover of the private healthcare system, etc) , but that was all kind of understandable in the crisis phase.

It's now clear to me that we should be returning towards a new normal a few things need to happen:
- emphasis should be on social distancing, hygiene and TTI (testing, tracing & isolation) as THESE ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT ARE PROVEN TO ACTUALLY WORK.

- the private healthcare system should be returned to it's owners pronto, with perhaps an option kept on 20% of the beds that the HSE says it wants to keep an option on

- the national strategy should be better articulated so that people are better informed & can buy in fully to the national effort. (Luke what is the current strategy? Refer to my earlier post ~10 pages ago)

- opening up the country should be accelerated (deaths, cases, ICUs usage all too low to justify this level of gdp loss, unemployment making, life disrupting mandates imho)

- specific things like schools & unis should be looked at also( evidence kids under 10 are not vectors & these are low low risk groups in a un infected country now)

- Nphet recommendations should be strictly advisory and also should be costed and weighed up on a cost/ benefit basis by an expert committee containing economists, bankers, accountants and other private sector expertise, which the national effort has clearly lacked to date.

- if we're going to have to live with this virus for several years, as a society we need to become better at managing any outbreaks and get back to a new productive normal asap (I.e without spending any more of our grand children's savings paying half the national workforce from the public purse, etc, etc, etc

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

There Is No Evidence Lockdowns Saved Lives. It Is Indisputable They Caused Great Harm

Apples and Dinosaurs - Lets compare Ethiopia, Burundi and Myanmar to Belgium, Italy and Spain

growleaves

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Which was the exact reason for the payment. If it hadn't of been in place it would have been every man/woman for themselves.

I'd say they'll announce a 4 week extension of the 350 and then reduce it to 203 after that.

Are you sure you have replied to the right poster?

I am not disputing the payment of 350 a week.

growleaves

Apples and Dinosaurs - Lets compare Ethiopia, Burundi and Myanmar to Belgium, Italy and Spain

Oh my Lord. We can only compare countries that did have a lockdown and those that didn't.

The obsessive Swede-o-mania on this site is because it is reasonable to assume that Sweden is similar to other (Northern) European countries.

Yet posters have tried to dodge this and say that Sweden is different culturally, geographically etc.

If you're saying differences between countries are too great for lockdown to have a significant effect on outcomes, then you are admitting that the effect of lockdown is trivial

Stark

risteard7 wrote: »

I'm actually delighted people are starting to see through HSE staff and their sense of entitlement. We have 2 patients in the Covid ward! Yes 2, and one of them will be discharged probably today or tomorrow. We have 12 empty beds on my unit out of 24, none of them are covid related. I like others have been asked to start taking annual leave!

None of us are "heroes" I cant buy into that crap. I've a job for life in the public sector with a pension, why would I complain? Nurse's have this sense of entitlement and love to blow how great they are. I see it everyday. Yes I'm sure certain Hospitals ICU departments were busy at some stage but not for long. I haven't had to shop for 8 weeks with all the food that has been dropped into us, while most people are struggling, but sure yea I'm a "hero" I just cant sit here and lie to say it's busy when it's not

Yeah I live with a healthcare worker who used to work 5 days a week before the crisis and is now oddly on a 3 day week. (much to my annoyance as I have to WFH so that means her under my feet 4 days a week. And don't get me started on her milking her essential travel pass for all its worth for social purposes while chastising everyone else in the house to "not even think about doing anything that might put you at risk as you do a great disrespect to all frontline health workers"). Other people I know in healthcare also report that it's quite quiet. Fair enough, if things had gone differently they could all be in a very bad situation right now.

growleaves

If you're saying that there is no way to gauge the efficacy of lockdown, you're basically admitting that its unproven.

daithi7

Fann Linn wrote: »

The same Stephen Donnelly, shadow health minister, who was quite happy to support FG and their health policies for the last 5 years or so?
Talk is cheap.

Yes, the very same and so flippin what!?

You may not have noticed but for those past 5 years, we haven't had a pandemic response that entailed clumsily& grossly inefficiently disabling the whole private healthcare system at great expense for no apparent benefit at all.... and that a stupid initiative like this has now enabled the numpties in the HSE to write to private consultants who are working pro bono to inform them they won't process their patients test & scan results!? I mean come on!?!

I'm no defender of Stephen Donnelly, but jeez he has got a couple of worthwhile initiatives here. They need to be acted on asap also!!

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

But the amount surely will be cut a little. Down to €200 perhaps, or €250. I think that it is a massive contributor to a public lethargy and lack of enthusiasm for moving out of this lockdown,

It might step down, but the reality is that the workers this was mainly set up to support - bar, restaurant & hotel workers - may not have the opportunity to return to any meaningful level of work until 10th August. This is why I think the end of August seems like a reasonable cut-off date for the payment. If you're not back in work at that point, then it's because the work isn't available, it's not a short-term emergency. They might step it down to 300 at the start of July. And that's more to remind people that this is a temporary payment and they should take work if it becomes available otherwise they're in for a shock.

Stark

Also people on the 203 a week are entitled to that money tax free along with various supports, HAP etc. on top of that. 350 a week is an all-inclusive taxable payment. Works out at much the same as if you were to include the extra supports but easier to administer.

Colibri

I'm not on either side so don't label me, but this is interesting

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/slovenia-calls-an-official-end-to-its-coronavirus-epidemic/

ZX7R

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But the amount surely will be cut a little. Down to €200 perhaps, or €250. I think that it is a massive contributor to a public lethargy and lack of enthusiasm for moving out of this lockdown,

If it is extended it will definitely be reduced , people receiving it are currently being transferred to wage subsidize from employer's as it helps business to keep running.
Even during the week a meeting of party finance ministers noted that they need a change to the wage subsidy on paper as it appears on wage slips as it is being used against people who are trying to access finance.
Although it won't go against your credit history it is blocking people from gaining access to finance ,a loophole being used by our banks.
It has to change and be reduced to a regular payment

Wibbs

Colibri wrote: »

I'm not on either side so don't label me, but this is interesting

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/slovenia-calls-an-official-end-to-its-coronavirus-epidemic/

Well they had proper border controls, mandatory masks in public places and decent contact tracing. Same for the Czechs and the East Asian nations with far better numbers than us. We have neither of the first two and not exactly brilliant in the last one. Big differences there. I mean we still have major resistance to masks in indoor public areas and that ship has pretty much sailed. We're a good way behind nations like the above.

Colibri

Wibbs wrote: »

Well they had proper border controls, mandatory masks in public places and decent contact tracing. Same for the Czechs and the East Asian nations with far better numbers than us. We have neither of the first two and not exactly brilliant in the last one. Big differences there. I mean we still have major resistance to masks in indoor public areas and that ship has pretty much sailed. We're a good way behind nations like the above.

Oh for sure I know they're ahead of us, I've been looking at them them and hearing stories from other countries. A friend's husband is Slovakian and is so confused as to why we've done so poorly (measures wise)

Ginger n Lemon

Colibri wrote: »

I'm not on either side so don't label me, but this is interesting

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/slovenia-calls-an-official-end-to-its-coronavirus-epidemic/

You need to get on the side of reason and demand lockdown to be lifted way ahead of schedule.

Slovenia isnt much more superior than Ireland, and their healthcare funding is less than Ireland.

We messed up initial proceedings but it doesnt mean that we need to mess up for next 3 months and put 10000 + out of work permanently and have 30bn budget deficit to deal with in October.

growleaves

A friend's husband is Slovakian and is so confused as to why we've done so poorly (measures wise)

Since the Czechs and Slovaks used to form one country between them, they might make for a good direct comparison.

Wibbs

growleaves wrote: »

Since the Czechs and Slovaks used to form one country between them, they might make for a good direct comparison.

Not really G, as they both enacted very similar policies. Basically they followed the East Asian model(who also have much better numbers than us and Europe) rather than dither about reinveting the wheel. Strict border control, masks in public places, quarantining, lockdowns. We've only done one of those things, so it's no great wonder that though our numbers were all pretty similar at the start, they "flattened the curve" much more quickly and are coming out the other side of things much more quickly.

polesheep

Stark wrote: »

Yeah I live with a healthcare worker who used to work 5 days a week before the crisis and is now oddly on a 3 day week. (much to my annoyance as I have to WFH so that means her under my feet 4 days a week. And don't get me started on her milking her essential travel pass for all its worth for social purposes while chastising everyone else in the house to "not even think about doing anything that might put you at risk as you do a great disrespect to all frontline health workers"). Other people I know in healthcare also report that it's quite quiet. Fair enough, if things had gone differently they could all be in a very bad situation right now.

Lots of healthcare workers went from five to three days, but the three day shifts are 13 hours (ward shifts). I don't know of any nurse or doctor who wants to be given hero status but when you suddenly find yourself doing random night and weekend shifts without childcare, it ain't easy.