Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 01:38PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D:D dear lord.

You can pray all you want but if you are incapable of answering a simple question it suggest as expected that Sinn Fein have done very little in North

jm08 · 14-05-2020 01:39PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Now I am confused, so you want a landlord who doesn't want to make a profit out of renting the property?

No, I want people to be able to buy their own homes like I was back in the 80s.

One of the incentives I had to buy my own home was that I was paying an awful lot of tax as well as paying rent. With tax incentives and grants, it was worth my while buying my own home.

Incidentally, a work colleague got a council house at the time - we would both have been earning about the same, but he had a wife and child to support.

Back in the 50s/60s, when Ireland was very, very poor with a huge amount of emigration, it managed to build thousands of council houses all over the country. If they could do it then, I don't know why they can't do it now.

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 01:45PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

You can pray all you want but if you are incapable of answering a simple question it suggest as expected that Sinn Fein have done very little in North

I have answered and am awaiting your fact based counter argument.

I pray for someone who thinks you can discuss politics without the mention of other parties. And I'll continue.

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 01:48PM

jm08 wrote: »

No, I want people to be able to buy their own homes like I was back in the 80s.

One of the incentives I had to buy my own home was that I was paying an awful lot of tax as well as paying rent. With tax incentives and grants, it was worth my while buying my own home.

Incidentally, a work colleague got a council house at the time - we would both have been earning about the same, but he had a wife and child to support.

Back in the 50s/60s, when Ireland was very, very poor with a huge amount of emigration, it managed to build thousands of council houses all over the country. If they could do it then, I don't know why they can't do it now.

How many house got built in the 50/60s compared to now? are we building less? I don't know so asking

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 01:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have answered and am awaiting your fact based counter argument.

I pray for someone who thinks you can discuss politics without the mention of other parties. And I'll continue.

You haven't answered anything.

Maybe you think that is an answer but it's not. All you did was complain about another political party. Maybe you could answer the question in a post without the need to mention another political party. Is it that difficult?

blanch152 · 14-05-2020 01:49PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Did I ask you about the DUP. If you want to discuss them maybe start a DUP thread.

What achievement for Sinn Fein?

I asked to discuss Sinn Fein on a Sinn Fein thread, not sure how that can be classed as pointing the finger.

Sinn Fein nearly achieved a stand-alone Irish language act in the North......eh........em.........let me see..............I think there is more...........no, actually, that is it.

blanch152 · 14-05-2020 01:52PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This has been factchecked since Varadkar made a similar claim than you are.

Yet when it comes to a debate on a UI the Health service in NI is held up as a reason they won't opt for the much worse service in the south?
Again, something the FG leader claimed is echoed by you, curiously. This has also been factchecked. The Irish Times found Leo's claim to be False.

WHAT?
They lobbied the Irish government to ensure that NI was given special treatment in Breixit and per the GFA. This is what happened, even though Enda Kenny rejected it initially. You failed on this before.

Across this entire site on many threads you denigrate the place of the Irish Language, or you see no importance in it. That is your view but it is certainly not everyone's view thankfully and many many many people are happy with what was achieved.

Still nothing in that setting out what Sinn Fein have achieved. West Belfast is one of the most deprived places in the whole of the EU, and it has been represented by Sinn Fein for at least 30 years. Making everyone equally poor and miserable is an achievement?

IBEC lobbies, is that all Sinn Fein are, a lobby group?

jm08 · 14-05-2020 01:57PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

How many house got built in the 50/60s compared to now? are we building less? I don't know so asking

I don't know the exact number, but on our family farm, 10 county council houses were built then. Most of the people who got those would have been farm labourers. If you look around the countryside, most those cottages were built in the 50s/60s.

Ballyfermot, Crumlin, Cabra, Donnycarney etc., were all built just after the war. Ballymun flats were built in the 60s.

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 02:06PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

You haven't answered anything.

Maybe you think that is an answer but it's not. All you did was complain about another political party. Maybe you could answer the question in a post without the need to mention another political party. Is it that difficult?

Not another single party mentioned here.
It isn't enough to say, I am wrong. You need to show that they were not the primary movers on enacting or getting these things in place. Who brought pressure on Westminster for instance etc if it wasn't SF. .

They spent 20 years advancing NI back to normality (other parties were involved in what is technically a 5 party coalition as well) and they have delivered (even though they had to walk away) for Irish language SSM and womens's right, they have worked hard at normalising parades, the flying of flags. They have worked at creating and monitoring a newly structured police force ALL the people can have some confidence in. And most recently have aligned North and South on Brexit and Covid. They were talking about special status and treatment of NI in Brexit long before the government here were and spoke on it in the Dáíl and Europe.

jm08 · 14-05-2020 02:16PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Still nothing in that setting out what Sinn Fein have achieved. West Belfast is one of the most deprived places in the whole of the EU, and it has been represented by Sinn Fein for at least 30 years. Making everyone equally poor and miserable is an achievement?

IBEC lobbies, is that all Sinn Fein are, a lobby group?

Its an extremely traumatised population. Its just amazing that NI have have the mental health budget that of England and they haven't been sitting in the middle of a civil war for 30 years.
This article will give you an idea of the problems.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/suicide-is-like-an-epidemic-here-in-west-belfast-there-s-about-one-a-week-1.4103435

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 02:27PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Still nothing in that setting out what Sinn Fein have achieved. West Belfast is one of the most deprived places in the whole of the EU, and it has been represented by Sinn Fein for at least 30 years. Making everyone equally poor and miserable is an achievement?

IBEC lobbies, is that all Sinn Fein are, a lobby group?

Gets fact checked on his falsehoods and pivots to something else.

Again-Facts. There is deprivation all over NI that is indeed a failure. There are 7 other areas more deprived than West Belfast in the stats.

Clearly it isn't a singular failure by SF to solve that, it is an ongoing problem for society there as whole as deprived areas are everywhere.
Nobody suggested SF are miracle workers or that they are in possession of magic wands or indeed that they haven't failed in some regards.

The notion propounded by you from your usual Shinner soapbox, that they have achieved nothing has been shown to be a lazy trope...yet again.

Edgware · 14-05-2020 03:05PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

No, did I say I was? just find it strange that some posters seem to find it necessary to discuss other political parties. Would it not make sense to discuss those parties on the thread about them?

Sinn Fein get accused of always pointing the finger, is that a correct assumption?

Better than pointing a rifle anyway

blanch152 · 14-05-2020 03:45PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gets fact checked on his falsehoods and pivots to something else.

Again-Facts. There is deprivation all over NI that is indeed a failure. There are 7 other areas more deprived than West Belfast in the stats.

Clearly it isn't a singular failure by SF to solve that, it is an ongoing problem for society there as whole as deprived areas are everywhere.
Nobody suggested SF are miracle workers or that they are in possession of magic wands or indeed that they haven't failed in some regards.

The notion propounded by you from your usual Shinner soapbox, that they have achieved nothing has been shown to be a lazy trope...yet again.

I am still waiting for a single achievement of Sinn Fein. Lobbying others to do something isn't an achievement, especially if it is something they would have done anyway (e.g. drop the best Brexit outcome - SM and CU - when it became unachievable and drop to a lower possible outcome).

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 03:59PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I am still waiting for a single achievement of Sinn Fein. Lobbying others to do something isn't an achievement, especially if it is something they would have done anyway (e.g. drop the best Brexit outcome - SM and CU - when it became unachievable and drop to a lower possible outcome).

Gas. You sound like an even more begrudging Jim Allister...if that were possible.

By your reckoning, nobody has 'achieved' anything for NI. It all just happened...because 'it would have anyway'?

I suppose by the same token nobody can take pride in achieving SSM and women's right here in the south?

Society in NI has changed unrecognisably to what it was when the GFA was signed.
Society in northern Ireland has come dramatically nearer to being a normal one and that has been achieved by those who pressured, voted, and lobbied for it despite petitions of concern being invoked and stubbornness.

But then I remember you are the poster who reckoned that northern nationalists should have just put up with the oppression and bigotry and sectarian governance and waited for the British to get around to being democrats.

jm08 · 14-05-2020 04:08PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I am still waiting for a single achievement of Sinn Fein. Lobbying others to do something isn't an achievement, especially if it is something they would have done anyway (e.g. drop the best Brexit outcome - SM and CU - when it became unachievable and drop to a lower possible outcome).

So, its thanks to Michel Barnier only that there isn't a Border on the island. It had nothing to do with the lobbying of other EU countries & the US by the Irish Government/Dept of Foreign Affairs?

Why is everyone praising them for that then?

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 04:14PM

jm08 wrote: »

So, its thanks to Michel Barnier only that there isn't a Border on the island. It had nothing to do with the lobbying of other EU countries & the US by the Irish Government/Dept of Foreign Affairs?

Why is everyone praising them for that then?

Go back to the early Brexit threads and blanch was, like the DUP, trenchant in opposing a sea border.
I think it may be sour grapes that NI did achieve special treatment and 'perish the thought'

SF wanted that from the outset.

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 04:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not another single party mentioned here.
It isn't enough to say, I am wrong. You need to show that they were not the primary movers on enacting or getting these things in place. Who brought pressure on Westminster for instance etc if it wasn't SF. .

You even had to edit your own post to delete the mention of someone else.

Then in the response you mention Westminster. Baffling.

I don't need to show anything by the way. I have asked you a question. You do understand that. This is a Sinn Fein thread and you are a Sinn Fein supporter, if you can't answer then just admit it and move on....

jm08 · 14-05-2020 04:27PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go back to the early Brexit threads and blanch was, like the DUP, trenchant in opposing a sea border.
I think it may be sour grapes that NI did achieve special treatment and 'perish the thought' SF wanted that from the outset.

Yes, I remember the letter Martin McGuinness & Arlene wrote requesting special status for NI. Arlene changed her mind afterwards though, and now we have what was suggested in the first place.

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 04:28PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gas. You sound like an even more begrudging Jim Allister...if that were possible.

By your reckoning, nobody has 'achieved' anything for NI. It all just happened...because 'it would have anyway'?

I suppose by the same token nobody can take pride in achieving SSM and women's right here in the south?

Society in NI has changed unrecognisably to what it was when the GFA was signed.
Society in northern Ireland has come dramatically nearer to being a normal one and that has been achieved by those who pressured, voted, and lobbied for it despite petitions of concern being invoked and stubbornness.

But then I remember you are the poster who reckoned that northern nationalists should have just put up with the oppression and bigotry and sectarian governance and waited for the British to get around to being democrats.

What are you talking about? Nobody said anything about the people of Northern Ireland putting up with oppression. If the best you can come up with is hyperbole then just admit it.

Your off on another rant post with nothing behind it. The Good Friday Agreement was incredible for all of Ireland. The result of which has made huge changes in Northern Ireland.

But the question is what has Sinn Fein done to build on that? As you rightly pointed out earlier they are in power sharing agreement and they have control in North. So what have they done with it?

Mortelaro · 14-05-2020 04:28PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go back to the early Brexit threads and blanch was, like the DUP, trenchant in opposing a sea border.
I think it may be sour grapes that NI did achieve special treatment and 'perish the thought' SF wanted that from the outset.

If SF took its seats in Westminster, only tactically temporarily there would have been a 2nd referendum and no Brexit at all

jm08 · 14-05-2020 04:38PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Your off on another rant post with nothing behind it. The Good Friday Agreement was incredible for all of Ireland. The result of which has made huge changes in Northern Ireland.

But the question is what has Sinn Fein done to build on that? As you rightly pointed out earlier they are in power sharing agreement and they have control in North. So what have they done with it?

Why do you think so many people vote for them in Northern Ireland if they have done nothing? Why are they not voting for the SDLP?

Edit: First Assembly Elections 1998: SDLP 24 seats; SF 18. 2017 Elections: 12 SDLP; SF 27.

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 04:41PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

You even had to edit your own post to delete the mention of someone else.

Then in the response you mention Westminster. Baffling.

I don't need to show anything by the way. I have asked you a question. You do understand that. This is a Sinn Fein thread and you are a Sinn Fein supporter, if you can't answer then just admit it and move on....

I edited the post to fix the quote tags. What 'name' did I remove?

And now I cannot mention Westminister when discussing NI?

I hope to live until the day that that is not necessary.

I listed the achievements. I will bullet point them for clarity, in case that is your issue.
They have delivered/achieved:
1. Irish language Rights
2. SSM
3. Women's Rights
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust.
5. An all island approach to Brexit.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19
7. Reductions in contentious parades
8. Normalised the flying of flags

Just some of the things that SF can take credit for being involved in. And nobody is denying that they have also failed in other areas.

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 04:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I edited the post to fix the quote tags. What 'name' did I remove?

And now I cannot mention Westminister when discussing NI? I hope to live until the day that that is not necessary.

I listed the achievements. I will bullet point them for clarity, in case that is your issue.
They have delivered/achieved:
1. Irish language Rights
2. SSM
3. Women's Rights
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust.
5. An all island approach to Brexit.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19
7. Reductions in contentious parades
8. Normalised the flying of flags

Just some of the things that SF can take credit for being involved in. And nobody is denying that they have also failed in other areas.

Sorry not aware of some of these. Maybe could you provide some more information.

1. Irish language Rights - Do people speak Irish in Northern Ireland? what percentage?
2. SSM - ?????
3. Women's Rights - I guess you mean Abortion. According to this Westminster brought in the law because the Northern Assembly was on holidays? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50125124
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust. - this is what exactly?
5. An all island approach to Brexit. - I got lost on this, all I heard was backstop and to be honest I though most of this was done the EU.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19 - but we don't have an All Ireland approach. It's been a disaster. Look at the cases along the border.
7. Reductions in contentious parades - No idea who arrange the parades committee
8. Normalised the flying of flags - what now?

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 04:53PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Sorry not aware of some of these. Maybe could you provide some more information.

1. Irish language Rights - Do people speak Irish in Northern Ireland? what percentage?
2. SSM - ?????
3. Women's Rights - I guess you mean Abortion. According to this Westminster brought in the law because the Northern Assembly was on holidays? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50125124
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust. - this is what exactly?
5. An all island approach to Brexit. - I got lost on this, all I heard was backstop and to be honest I though most of this was done the EU.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19 - but we don't have an All Ireland approach. It's been a disaster. Look at the cases along the border.
7. Reductions in contentious parades - No idea who arrange the parades committee
8. Normalised the flying of flags - what now?

You are not aware of them and you are pronouncing that they have achieved nothing?

Priceless.

And NO. Find out yourself about them...it'll be educational.

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 04:58PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are not aware of them and you are pronouncing that they have achieved nothing?

Priceless.

And NO. Find out yourself about them...it'll be educational.

Sorry I have googled, looked around and nothing is listed.

So based on all news media this is just made up list of things. So why didn't you say that in first place?

Best you could come up with is an imaginary list, after all of your posts. Fairly poor showing from Sinn Fein up the North. Remind me why are you voting for them again?

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 05:05PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Sorry I have googled, looked around and nothing is listed.

So based on all news media this is just made up list of things. So why didn't you say that in first place?

Best you could come up with is an imaginary list, after all of your posts. Fairly poor showing from Sinn Fein up the North. Remind me why are you voting for them again?

Sure, I 'made up' the delivery of 'Irish Language Rights, SSM, and Women's Rights after years of pressure and attempts to have them passed by the Executive but thwarted by the DUP and UUP and TUV using Petitions of Concern.

I made up the Reform of Policing in Northern Ireland
I 'made up' what happened with Brexit and the avoidance of a Hard Border.
I 'made up' the establishing of an all Ireland body to manage Covid-19
I 'made up' the reduction in contentious parading
I 'made up' the normalising of flag flying.

As I come-back or response, it doesn't lack uniqueness anyway Redgirl...just pretend the above never happened.

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 05:06PM

So now we have established the poor record in the North for Sinn Fein. Thanks to Francie for confirmation. Might have been easier if he just admitted at the start but anyway got to it in end.

Maybe we can come back to the 2020 election manifesto. Anyone have comments from my post earlier on thread, sorry it got derailed but I expect that happens a lot on this thread.

Yeah_Right · 14-05-2020 05:07PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Sorry not aware of some of these. Maybe could you provide some more information.

1. Irish language Rights - Do people speak Irish in Northern Ireland? what percentage?
2. SSM - ?????
3. Women's Rights - I guess you mean Abortion. According to this Westminster brought in the law because the Northern Assembly was on holidays? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50125124
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust. - this is what exactly?
5. An all island approach to Brexit. - I got lost on this, all I heard was backstop and to be honest I though most of this was done the EU.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19 - but we don't have an All Ireland approach. It's been a disaster. Look at the cases along the border.
7. Reductions in contentious parades - No idea who arrange the parades committee
8. Normalised the flying of flags - what now?

Surely you know by now that when things change, its because of Sinn Fein and ONLY Sinn Fein. No one else. Just Sinn Fein.

When things don't change its because of someone else. Anyone else. There's a long list of people and groups who are stopping them.

:rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 05:09PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Surely you know by now that when things change, its because of Sinn Fein and ONLY Sinn Fein. No one else. Just Sinn Fein.

When things don't change its because of someone else. Anyone else. There's a long list of people and groups who are stopping them.

:rolleyes:

Jaysus Yeah_right are you going to hitch yourself to that point of view?

I have said and fully admitted that SF have failed also btw. The question was to 'list achievements'.

jm08 · 14-05-2020 05:12PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Sorry not aware of some of these. Maybe could you provide some more information.

1. Irish language Rights - Do people speak Irish in Northern Ireland? what percentage?
2. SSM - ?????
3. Women's Rights - I guess you mean Abortion. According to this Westminster brought in the law because the Northern Assembly was on holidays? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50125124
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust. - this is what exactly?
5. An all island approach to Brexit. - I got lost on this, all I heard was backstop and to be honest I though most of this was done the EU.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19 - but we don't have an All Ireland approach. It's been a disaster. Look at the cases along the border.
7. Reductions in contentious parades - No idea who arrange the parades committee
8. Normalised the flying of flags - what now?

I think you should read up about the 'Petition of Concern' which might help you understand why it is so difficult to get legislation through the Stormont Assembly.

On Marriage Equality legislation, the DUP used the Petition of Concern 5 times to block legislation in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015.

https://www.thedetail.tv/articles/stormont-s-petition-of-concern-used-115-times-in-five-years

The DUP have used this legislation 82 times and 4 times out of that has been with other parties. SF & SDLP have used it 29 times each.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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