Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Runaways · 14-05-2020 09:56AM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Here is the problem, one good post immediately followed by your post mentioning IRA and FG....what exactly is that adding to the conversation?

If you don't want people to talk about FG or the IRA, maybe just stop mentioning them in every single post

Your every post is policing other people and what they can and can’t talk about you need to get a ****ing grip

Mortelaro · 14-05-2020 10:11AM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Here is the problem, one good post immediately followed by your post mentioning IRA and FG....what exactly is that adding to the conversation?

If you don't want people to talk about FG or the IRA, maybe just stop mentioning them in every single post

You'd probably be better off in the politics forum
Over here,its IRA IRA DINNY DINNY DINNY

Runaways · 14-05-2020 10:22AM

In a long rambling post about won’t someone please think of the poor landlords then switching to don’t talk about anything else just the topic at hand

You just can’t take a poster like that seriously

Mortelaro · 14-05-2020 11:05AM

Runaways wrote: »

In a long rambling post about won’t someone please think of the poor landlords then switching to don’t talk about anything else just the topic at hand

You just can’t take a poster like that seriously

Are land lords not to be thought of at all?
Many of them use property as a pension fund
Are people with private pensions to be discarded or not thought of?
How apartheid of you

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 11:10AM

Runaways wrote: »

In a long rambling post about won’t someone please think of the poor landlords then switching to don’t talk about anything else just the topic at hand

You just can’t take a poster like that seriously

Unfortunately the only person who can't be taken seriously is yourself. I will give you a hint, you can't have rental properties without landlord. You should remember that.

You did miss the section on Sinn Fein housing, I guess you agree with my assessment. Thank you.

blanch152 · 14-05-2020 11:12AM

atticu wrote: »

SF’s track record is there for all to see.
They did not grant planning permission for a lot of developments that would have added plenty of accommodation.

Sinn Fein's track record up North and in Dublin City Council is abysmal. Those who say give them a chance because they haven't messed up are obviously blind to this.

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 11:12AM

Mortelaro wrote: »

You'd probably be better off in the politics forum
Over here,its IRA IRA DINNY DINNY DINNY

I would believe it, all watched too many films and no idea what exactly went on or what is going on today. IRA, reduced to another group of scumbag like the Kinahans

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 11:16AM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Maybe you disagree? of course respond. This time maybe stick to Sinn Fein and quit with the guff about the other parties

I actually think, given they are dealing with one of the most fundamentalist and culturally bigoted parties in western Europe in Northern Ireland that they have done spectacularly well.
They spent 20 years advancing NI back to normality (other parties were involved in what is technically a 5 party coalition as well) and they have delivered (even though they had to walk away) for Irish language SSM and womens's right, they have worked hard at normalising parades, the flying of flags. They have worked at creating and monitoring a newly structured police force ALL the people can have some confidence in. And most recently have aligned North and South on Brexit and Covid. They were talking about special status and treatment of NI in Brexit long before the government here were and spoke on it in the Dáíl and Europe.

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 11:41AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I actually think, given they are dealing with one of the most fundamentalist and culturally bigoted parties in western Europe in Northern Ireland that they have done spectacularly well.
They spent 20 years advancing NI back to normality (other parties were involved in what is technically a 5 party coalition as well) and they have delivered (even though they had to walk away) for Irish language SSM and womens's right, they have worked hard at normalising parades, the flying of flags. They have worked at creating and monitoring a newly structured police force ALL the people can have some confidence in. And most recently have aligned North and South on Brexit and Covid. They were talking about special status and treatment of NI in Brexit long before the government here were and spoke on it in the Dáíl and Europe.

I think I read before you said Sinn Fein had no power up the North and it was all driven either by the DUP or by Westminster? Now you are saying they have done all of the above in the North?

So which is it? Do Sinn Fein have power in the North for which they should be recognised for the positives?

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 11:50AM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I think I read before you said Sinn Fein had no power up the North and it was all driven either by the DUP or by Westminster? Now you are saying they have done all of the above in the North?

So which is it? Do Sinn Fein have power in the North for which they should be recognised for the positives?

I never said that. I said the North was a unique political entity that operates in a completely different way to here.

Very few advancements for the nationalist - Irish identifying electorate have been delivered easily over the decades in NI. Nobody is surely in denial on that one.
Governed by the GFA the last 20 or so years have been easier but still a massive struggle against the recognised cultural stubbornness and religious fundamentalism of primarily the DUP and to a lesser extent the UUP. (who when push comes to shove will side with the DUP)
If that assessment is wrong then tell us how you see it.

As far as I can see SF have lobbied and agitated for every single thing seen as an advancement and a return to normaility in the list above. All achieved in the last 20 years.
Please fire away if you can show anything different.

Yeah_Right · 14-05-2020 11:54AM

jm08 wrote: »

Since the GFA, the Provos have kept their nose clean and as far as I understand, even the dissident republicans are not drug dealers. In fact, the opposite if you get my meaning! Its the loyalists who are the drug dealers. Dissident republicans are into diesel laundering and cigarette smuggling.

Well as long as thats all they are doing, then thats fine :rolleyes:

Maybe the Provos/Sinn Fein could have a word with their mates in the Real IRA, the New IRA, the IRA 2.0, the "I Can't Believe Its Not The IRA" IRA and whatever IRA is coming next about the bombings and shootings that they have been doing since the GFA. It would be nice if those stopped.

dundalkfc10 · 14-05-2020 11:56AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never said that. I said the North was a unique political entity that operates in a completely different way to here.

Very few advancements for the nationalist - Irish identifying electorate have been delivered easily over the decades in NI. Nobody is surely in denial on that one.
Governed by the GFA the last 20 or so years have been easier but still a massive struggle against the recognised cultural stubbornness and religious fundamentalism of primarily the DUP and to a lesser extent the UUP. (who when push comes to shove will side with the DUP)
If that assessment is wrong then tell us how you see it.

As far as I can see SF have lobbied and agitated for every single thing seen as an advancement and a return to normaility in the list above. All achieved in the last 20 years.
Please fire away if you can show anything different.

But But But But The IRA

Mortelaro · 14-05-2020 12:13PM

I find it profoundly ironic that the DUP took sides with the Roman Church against Sinn Féin on same sex marriage and abortion
Both of which were introduced by Westminster not Stormont

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 12:21PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

I find it profoundly ironic that the DUP took sides with the Roman Church against Sinn Féin on same sex marriage and abortion
Both of which were introduced by Westminster not Stormont

They were only introduced by Westminister because SF and others (to be fair) advocated and lobbied for them and exhausted the mechanisms agreed in the GFA to get them legislated for.

Again, if something else happened, do tell us.

What is the RCC and The DUP point about, only demonstrating that religion for 'some' no longer influences how you attempt to govern for everybody in NI?
Was that what you meant?

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 12:30PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never said that. I said the North was a unique political entity that operates in a completely different way to here.

Very few advancements for the nationalist - Irish identifying electorate have been delivered easily over the decades in NI. Nobody is surely in denial on that one.
Governed by the GFA the last 20 or so years have been easier but still a massive struggle against the recognised cultural stubbornness and religious fundamentalism of primarily the DUP and to a lesser extent the UUP. (who when push comes to shove will side with the DUP)
If that assessment is wrong then tell us how you see it.

As far as I can see SF have lobbied and agitated for every single thing seen as an advancement and a return to normaility in the list above. All achieved in the last 20 years.
Please fire away if you can show anything different.

Well how did it helping shutting down the government for 3 years over a petty disagreement?

Sinn Fein are in powering sharing, so they have equal say. I am not sure why you would refer to DUP as fundamentalism. That just using tabloid newspaper talk. In reality they are a good political party with a few outdated ideas. Or maybe you have more information than I do?

In regards to the North, what have Sinn Fein achieved? the country is propped up by the English government. Some young people either go to UK or to Southern Ireland for job, unless they can get into a public sector job. They have no industry.

So your post is good but actually has zero substance. I don't see a list of what Sinn Fein have achieved, just vague statement that cannot be backed up. Most of the advancement for people in the North was part of the Good Friday Agreement. What exactly have Sinn Fein done since then to make more improvements?

For instance, talk of a unified Ireland. It is impossible because Ireland could never take on Northern Ireland because we cannot bankroll it like the UK do. What companies have Sinn Fein attracted to Northern Ireland to mean it has to rely less on the public sector for jobs?

I did note we have pages pointing the finger at FG etc, as soon as North is mentioned you point the finger at DUP etc.

Odhinn · 14-05-2020 12:35PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Well how did it helping shutting down the government for 3 years over a petty disagreement?

Sinn Fein are in powering sharing, so they have equal say. I am not sure why you would refer to DUP as fundamentalism. That just using tabloid newspaper talk. In reality they are a good political party with a few outdated ideas. Or maybe you have more information than I do?

In regards to the North, what have Sinn Fein achieved? the country is propped up by the English government. Some young people either go to UK or to Southern Ireland for job, unless they can get into a public sector job. They have no industry.

So your post is good but actually has zero substance. I don't see a list of what Sinn Fein have achieved, just vague statement that cannot be backed up. Most of the advancement for people in the North was part of the Good Friday Agreement. What exactly have Sinn Fein done since then to make more improvements?

For instance, talk of a unified Ireland. It is impossible because Ireland could never take on Northern Ireland because we cannot bankroll it like the UK do. What companies have Sinn Fein attracted to Northern Ireland to mean it has to rely less on the public sector for jobs?

I did note we have pages pointing the finger at FG etc, as soon as North is mentioned you point the finger at DUP etc.

*splutter

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 12:46PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Well how did it helping shutting down the government for 3 years over a petty disagreement?

Sinn Fein are in powering sharing, so they have equal say. I am not sure why you would refer to DUP as fundamentalism. That just using tabloid newspaper talk. In reality they are a good political party with a few outdated ideas. Or maybe you have more information than I do?

In regards to the North, what have Sinn Fein achieved? the country is propped up by the English government. Some young people either go to UK or to Southern Ireland for job, unless they can get into a public sector job. They have no industry.

So your post is good but actually has zero substance. I don't see a list of what Sinn Fein have achieved, just vague statement that cannot be backed up. Most of the advancement for people in the North was part of the Good Friday Agreement. What exactly have Sinn Fein done since then to make more improvements?

For instance, talk of a unified Ireland. It is impossible because Ireland could never take on Northern Ireland because we cannot bankroll it like the UK do. What companies have Sinn Fein attracted to Northern Ireland to mean it has to rely less on the public sector for jobs?

I did note we have pages pointing the finger at FG etc, as soon as North is mentioned you point the finger at DUP etc.

I have rarely read a post like that tbh.
There was 20 years of government before the executive shut down...you want to ignore that to focus on a 3 year hiatus. Fair enough. Are you in denial that the DUP walked away from a deal that would have seen it get back to work. Are you in denial that the SoS blamed the DUP solely for being the block to it getting up and running again?

If you think a party that puts it's own religious morals (which are fundamentalist in nature) in front of the rights of all the citizens is not fundamentalist then there is nothing I can say or do that is gonna change that. If you believe a party that cannot stomach cultural rights that everyone else in the UK has is not culturally bigoted...go ahead. There isn't much can be done for you.

I will remind you that it was you who 'pointed' the finger at SF. You haven't addressed a single achievement outlined in my post. Then you tried to pivot to a UI. :rolleyes:

jm08 · 14-05-2020 12:59PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

I find it profoundly ironic that the DUP took sides with the Roman Church against Sinn Féin on same sex marriage and abortion
Both of which were introduced by Westminster not Stormont

Its worth pointing out that legislation was introduced by Labour MPs - Conor McGinn (Same Sex Marriage) is from Armagh and his father is or was a Sinn Fein Councillor.

Corbyn was always getting flack for being too friendly with SF/IRA, so I think its fair to say that SF had some influence on that happening. SDLP supporters are more conservative and I don't think they would actually have pushed very hard for abortion.

blanch152 · 14-05-2020 01:04PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I actually think, given they are dealing with one of the most fundamentalist and culturally bigoted parties in western Europe in Northern Ireland that they have done spectacularly well.
They spent 20 years advancing NI back to normality (other parties were involved in what is technically a 5 party coalition as well) and they have delivered (even though they had to walk away) for Irish language SSM and womens's right, they have worked hard at normalising parades, the flying of flags. They have worked at creating and monitoring a newly structured police force ALL the people can have some confidence in. And most recently have aligned North and South on Brexit and Covid. They were talking about special status and treatment of NI in Brexit long before the government here were and spoke on it in the Dáíl and Europe.

Yes, they dealt with the important issue of the Irish language, while their social welfare rates fell far behind the South, while the health and education systems became paler and paler pathetic comparisons to the South, and while their homeless problems escalated far beyond that of the South. On Brexit, they opted very early on for one of the lesser options that will do great damage to our society and economy purely because it fitted their warped nationalist view, rather than it was for the best. When dealing with one of the most culturally bigoted parties in Europe, it was merely looking in the mirror.

So, we can rely on Sinn Fein to do the right thing by the Irish language, but make a mess of everything else.

blanch152 · 14-05-2020 01:06PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have rarely read a post like that tbh.
There was 20 years of government before the executive shut down...you want to ignore that to focus on a 3 year hiatus. Fair enough. Are you in denial that the DUP walked away from a deal that would have seen it get back to work. Are you in denial that the SoS blamed the DUP solely for being the block to it getting up and running again?

If you think a party that puts it's own religious morals (which are fundamentalist in nature) in front of the rights of all the citizens is not fundamentalist then there is nothing I can say or do that is gonna change that. If you believe a party that cannot stomach cultural rights that everyone else in the UK has is not culturally bigoted...go ahead. There isn't much can be done for you.

I will remind you that it was you who 'pointed' the finger at SF. You haven't addressed a single achievement outlined in my post. Then you tried to pivot to a UI. :rolleyes:

Achievements?

There is no standalone Irish language Act, and there won't be. Westminister introduced SSM.

They haven't achieved a single thing in their own right.

Runaways · 14-05-2020 01:06PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Are land lords not to be thought of at all?
Many of them use property as a pension fund
Are people with private pensions to be discarded or not thought of?
How apartheid of you

Landlords who depend on second properties for their income are literally a parasite and what’s wrong with the current system
FFFG depend on this class for the vote on this most recent election expose
Them on this and that is why they Took a hiding in the election and will continue to do so until they change their ways and represent everybody not just the landowners

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 01:23PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, they dealt with the important issue of the Irish language, while their social welfare rates fell far behind the South,

This has been factchecked since Varadkar made a similar claim than you are.

This is perhaps the crucial piece of context, and it is true. Benefit rates are determined by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and are uniform throughout the UK.

Therefore, the Northern Ireland Executive, in which Sinn Féin has had ministers since the Good Friday Agreement in 1998, does not have any say in welfare rates, including Jobseeker’s Allowance.

So while Leo Varadkar’s claim is certainly true, it does not support any criticism of Sinn Féin, in this respect.

while the health and education systems became paler and paler pathetic comparisons to the South,

Yet when it comes to a debate on a UI the Health service in NI is held up as a reason they won't opt for the much worse service in the south?

and while their homeless problems escalated far beyond that of the South.

Again, something the FG leader claimed is echoed by you, curiously. This has also been factchecked. The Irish Times found Leo's claim to be False.

False. While the official figures are that just under 20,000 households presented as homeless in Northern Ireland in 2018, only 12,512 met the legal requirements of homelessness and were accepted as “full duty applicants”.

It is simply not possible to compare the two systems - or sets of figures - because of the significant differences in approach, methodology and criteria.

On Brexit, they opted very early on for one of the lesser options that will do great damage to our society and economy purely because it fitted their warped nationalist view, rather than it was for the best. When dealing with one of the most culturally bigoted parties in Europe, it was merely looking in the mirror.

WHAT?
They lobbied the Irish government to ensure that NI was given special treatment in Breixit and per the GFA. This is what happened, even though Enda Kenny rejected it initially. You failed on this before.

So, we can rely on Sinn Fein to do the right thing by the Irish language, but make a mess of everything else.

Across this entire site on many threads you denigrate the place of the Irish Language, or you see no importance in it. That is your view but it is certainly not everyone's view thankfully and many many many people are happy with what was achieved.

armaghlad · 14-05-2020 01:23PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, they dealt with the important issue of the Irish language, while their social welfare rates fell far behind the South, while the health and education systems became paler and paler pathetic comparisons to the South, and while their homeless problems escalated far beyond that of the South. On Brexit, they opted very early on for one of the lesser options that will do great damage to our society and economy purely because it fitted their warped nationalist view, rather than it was for the best. When dealing with one of the most culturally bigoted parties in Europe, it was merely looking in the mirror.

So, we can rely on Sinn Fein to do the right thing by the Irish language, but make a mess of everything else.

Absolute lies Jesus Christ.

Yeah_Right · 14-05-2020 01:24PM

Runaways wrote: »

Landlords who depend on second properties for their income are literally a parasite and what’s wrong with the current system

So who do you think should own and maintain the property for renters?

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 01:26PM

blanch152 wrote: »

They haven't achieved a single thing in their own right.

A subtle wee change there I see.

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 01:27PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have rarely read a post like that tbh.
There was 20 years of government before the executive shut down...you want to ignore that to focus on a 3 year hiatus. Fair enough. Are you in denial that the DUP walked away from a deal that would have seen it get back to work. Are you in denial that the SoS blamed the DUP solely for being the block to it getting up and running again?

If you think a party that puts it's own religious morals (which are fundamentalist in nature) in front of the rights of all the citizens is not fundamentalist then there is nothing I can say or do that is gonna change that. If you believe a party that cannot stomach cultural rights that everyone else in the UK has is not culturally bigoted...go ahead. There isn't much can be done for you.

I will remind you that it was you who 'pointed' the finger at SF. You haven't addressed a single achievement outlined in my post. Then you tried to pivot to a UI. :rolleyes:

Did I ask you about the DUP. If you want to discuss them maybe start a DUP thread.

What achievement for Sinn Fein?

I asked to discuss Sinn Fein on a Sinn Fein thread, not sure how that can be classed as pointing the finger.

Redgirl82 · 14-05-2020 01:28PM

Runaways wrote: »

Landlords who depend on second properties for their income are literally a parasite and what’s wrong with the current system
FFFG depend on this class for the vote on this most recent election expose
Them on this and that is why they Took a hiding in the election and will continue to do so until they change their ways and represent everybody not just the landowners

Now I am confused, so you want a landlord who doesn't want to make a profit out of renting the property?

Mortelaro · 14-05-2020 01:30PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So who do you think should own and maintain the property for renters?

Jack in the beanstalk of the magic money tree of course

FrancieBrady · 14-05-2020 01:30PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Did I ask you about the DUP. If you want to discuss them maybe start a DUP thread.

What achievement for Sinn Fein?

I asked to discuss Sinn Fein on a Sinn Fein thread, not sure how that can be classed as pointing the finger.

:D:D:D dear lord.

jm08 · 14-05-2020 01:31PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I think I read before you said Sinn Fein had no power up the North and it was all driven either by the DUP or by Westminster? Now you are saying they have done all of the above in the North?

So which is it? Do Sinn Fein have power in the North for which they should be recognised for the positives?

Have you not noticed that the DUP had the British Government by the short and curlies for the last couple of years and it certainly didn't suit them to bring politics back to Stormont.

Stormont is powerless because it does not have tax raising abilities. For instance, they are unable to compete with us on corporate tax rates and for investment within the UK with England and Scotland. If the IDA want to attract a company to Ireland they can roll out any number of Government Ministers who actually are decision makers.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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