Masks

Anyone know a good place to get effective masks?

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Yep, I know they are. That's why I posted earlier that secretly they want herd immunity. Their actions speak it.

By the way the Czech serological study, 30k people sample from various urban and rural areas, is out.

Results - antibodies found in <1% population overall, the confidence interval is 0-1.1%. The highest values were 5% from the hardest hit areas. Means there's no herd immunity whatsoever. Czechia was hit less than say Ireland but even in Ireland the immunity will be single digit percentage at most.

Herd immunity is out of the question, its simply not possible. Also given what we know regarding the coronavirus and their very low ability to generate antibodies. By the way this is a reason why classic vaccines with attenuated virus or virus proteins don't work for Sars-cov-2 - they don't generate sufficient immune response.

So the strategy will be do everything you can while waiting for the vaccine (which isn't a given and clinical trials will take a long time). Not at least recommending masks in this scenario is stupid at best, criminal at worst.

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So they are going to advise face coverings on the 18th?

I don't understand... How about now?

That is just an 'advisory' document to the Government AFAICS. I may be wrong but I don't see a government document echoing this advice, as yet anyway.

Wibbs wrote: »

I read "guidance" alright Railer: Develop guidance for wearing of face coverings in community and has regard to the need for medical grade masks by healthcare workers (and other specified categories of persons) yeah, they can't even type plain effin English/proof read in an official government document. Amateur hour. Again. But "guidance"? What does that mean? Leo has straight out said it won't ever be mandatory, only advisory, so unless there's a mass groundswell from the Irish public, never gonna happen and guidance won't cut it.

Guidance is most likely 'Yes, Minister type speak' for 'we don't have a clue', but maybe they're hoping for the 'archangel Michael' to fly down from heaven and sort it out for them.

At least we know that advice is being given in the direction of the public wearing of cloth face masks, by the medical advisory team - but that is where it appears to end, for the time being anyway.

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So we are in this for years, a vaccine can take 10+ years. They should be doing everything they can to get rid of this. Their testing is a joke, contact tracing and lack of mandatory quarantine for incoming visitors is also a joke.

Then they come out with advisory face masks/coverings... Something we can all make at home. Something we can all do. Something they can get right. But nope.

Most of the medical experts we see on TV, support the use of cloth face coverings - it would be interesting to know what's inspiring the push back against their use.

owlbethere wrote: »

Is this the results of a study that was carried out?

Its fairly despicable of our government to ignore something like this.

I understand why our government is not recommending facemasks because masks have to be reserved for healthcare settings. With a shortage too, if the government recommends masks, they might be liable to provide them or businesses might need to supply them and they may not be able to with a shortage. Surely they could recommend face coverings? Like fabric/cloth masks.

Yes, it appears to be the results of a study that The Mater Surgery(An Advanced, Cross-Disciplinary Applied Research & Education Facility for Better Surgery) carried out.

Simon Harris was in the Mater yesterday at the the launch of the Covid Assessment Hub(joint project between the Mater and HSE).

So Harris may well have got a schooling from Mater Surgery or gave a blessing to publish these images/videographics or maybe after he left they decided F-this were going public as we have a duty to care.

I'm not as keen as you are of letting the government off the hook on this issue. Propping up the excuse of short supply doesn't hold water in my book, certainly not this deep into the pandemic.

New machine just arrived into the only facility we have for making facemasks last week.

They might even extend lockdown(bar outside/external work) a little longer just to stockpile masks for the frontline, healthcare workers, patients, vulnerable, garda, army, etc. I cannot see them advising or recommending facemasks/cloth coverings for the public until they have a stockpile built up for their frontline.

Fairly despicable, yes.

tipperary wrote: »

Any charities selling masks? Starting to look like we may need them when out and about, would prefer to give my money to a charity though.

Each mask costs €6.00 with €1.00 donated to Barnardos Charity.

These lads give a mask to direct provision when u buy one.

Seanergy wrote: »

Surprised your not wearing covers for boots, surely risk of heavy droplets landing on boots is high enough in your environment? laces can twist this way and that, a little spray isn't a bibs and braces approach.

Other than that fairly thorough training vid. Fair play to yea lads...

We are using them in Cavan. we were expecting a surge in ambulance assists, Thankfully thus far that hasn't materialised.

Wibbs wrote: »

I read "guidance" alright Railer: Develop guidance for wearing of face coverings in community and has regard to the need for medical grade masks by healthcare workers (and other specified categories of persons) yeah, they can't even type plain effin English/proof read in an official government document. Amateur hour. Again. But "guidance"? What does that mean? Leo has straight out said it won't ever be mandatory, only advisory, so unless there's a mass groundswell from the Irish public, never gonna happen and guidance won't cut it.

Oh yeah, bad English, and we pay this from our taxes....I routinely write much better documents as a non-native.

I feel slightly positive, because at least it's mentioned there. If it wasn't then that would be game over. In this way, there's some traction, we can campaign and keep pushing, I'm also trying to contact some TDs if they can raise the issue in the Dáil (again). Let's see what they come up with. I think we need to push DIYMASKS.IE into all channels before they are arsed to "develop the guidance".

Arrival wrote: »

Yeah it's ridiculous to not do it at the same time as the lockdown because it would reduce the community spread even more and then when the lockdown is lifted there'd be way less active cases

Time to start getting into touch with local TDs and laying out the reasoning I'd say, some of the articles linked in here have been fantastic for getting the point across

Spot on. People should start contacting their TDs about this. I've been trying to do that too. We just need to bother them until they do something.

railer201 wrote: »

This advisory PDF Public Health Framework Document by the NPHET is still on line - see link.

It does mention cloth face coverings in 6 places, masks in 3 ok.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7450cc-advice-provided-by-nphet-to-the-minister-for-health/

Ha! I haven't noticed this...

Appendix 1 – Public health framework approach to advising on reducing social distancing measures
(measures listed are illustrative)

WTF?

McGiver wrote: »

You're right.

What I've found though is that, and Wibbs or others correct me if I'm wrong, I think Irish public or civic society is pretty weak. Most people don't care and/or buy the media gov message and obey without question. And from those who do care very few will contact TDs, volunteer run a campaign or something.

I've heard stories from people in Spain about huge volunteering movement over there, people helping in different ways etc. The same in Czechia where there were dozens of campaigns from DIY masks, to mask awareness, volunteering of distribution of goods or PPE to the elderly, massive grassroots sewing and distribution (also via website / app) of masks to help everyone included sick, elderly and even hospitals and care homes etc. It was the public who forced the current incompetent Czech government to mandate masks back in March. Generally, Covid brought the best out of the people there, it united the nation - everyone tried to help somehow. I don't see this kind of enthusiasm here at all...

Yeah, just seems to be a lot of people talking about it.

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Page four of the government guidelines and new measures for opening up.

How Covid spreads... When someone coughs, sneezes or speaks.

While most of us catches our coughs and sneezes, what about when we talk?

They go on about tissues and handwashing. Very limited on face mask use, unless someone is a carrier... Except how do you know who's a carrier with asymptomatic people?

This document is a flipping joke. The unions should sink it. Haven't heard unions calling for masks - they absolutely should.

Some funny things from the document - cleaning of surfaces at the workplace, no handshakes, no sharing of mugs and bottles.... Are they for real?

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So we are in this for years, a vaccine can take 10+ years.

Well depends on the vaccine. Could be a year or two if we're lucky.

Only Korea could temporarily wipe it with hyper organised response and universal masks. But because of the weak immune response it can come back anytime again. They will need to stay alert.

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

They should be doing everything they can to get rid of this. Their testing is a joke, contact tracing and lack of mandatory quarantine for incoming visitors is also a joke.

Correct. See Korea, Taiwan how it's done. It needs a government which can govern and also has good e-government in place. The HSE routinely send letters by post FFS....that's where we are.

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Then they come out with advisory face masks/coverings... Something we can all make at home. Something we can all do. Something they can get right. But nope.

I've been saying that from the beginning. It's a massive stupidity they haven't done so simply because it's a win-win scenario, it removes any responsibility and almost all effort from them. If they recommended cloth masks and say DIY then - they don't have to pay a cent, they don't have to try organising distribution of masks to every citizen (and fail at that ) and they save PPE for medical staff. Any witty politician would take this immediately. That's why the US CDC took this route.