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Masks

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  • #1952
    Zardoz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭Zardoz


    Yes: other
    Wibbs wrote: »
    That there is any doubt among our so called leaders that reducing the risk of transmission through the very routes the virus takes truly beggars belief at this stage. Are they being wilfully stupid?

    They seem to be .

    They seem to have plenty of money to hand out for everything except the one thing people really need, masks.


  • #1953
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,063 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    No: other
    Wibbs wrote: »
    That there is any doubt among our so called leaders that reducing the risk of transmission through the very routes the virus takes truly beggars belief at this stage. Are they being wilfully stupid?

    They've already given guidelines on how to reduce the transmission. I've read the 29 pages of the recommendations this morning and masks are recommended in limited circumstances most notably when a suspected case is present and it's the carrier has to wear it.
    Have we even reliable stats on asymptomatic people.


  • #1954
    UrbanFret
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭UrbanFret


    Yes: homemade
    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    They've already given guidelines on how to reduce the transmission. I've read the 29 pages of the recommendations this morning and masks are recommended in limited circumstances most notably when a suspected case is present and it's the carrier has to wear it.
    Have we even reliable stats on asymptomatic people.

    Treat everyone as a suspected case unless you know different.


  • #1955
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Yes: valved
    dublin99 wrote: »
    People are told to continue wearing masks and government is giving everyone re-usable ones, plus ten disposable ones for each household.

    Everyone believes it is the face masks that has stopped the community transmission by asymptomatic or pre symptomatic carriers, and by doing that the transmission chain is effectively broken.
    The Irish government is spending so much of our future taxes (and our children's taxes) responding to this pandemic, but yet failed in the rudimentary task of providing its citizens with masks, which along with the other measures, will stop the virus in the tracks.

    I have no confidence in the relaxation of restrictions when it happens because it will be like sending lambs to the slaughter if masks are not included in the plan.


  • #1956
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    Wibbs wrote: »
    That there is any doubt among our so called leaders that reducing the risk of transmission through the very routes the virus takes truly beggars belief at this stage. Are they being wilfully stupid?

    How on earth can you expect our leader to be qualified enough to understand the benefits of wearing masks/face coverings in indoor environments.


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  • #1957
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    They've already given guidelines on how to reduce the transmission.
    Guidelines from the same people who gave us reopen the carehomes, the same people who told us asymptomatic spread was of very low risk, the same people who gave us the huge delays in testing results, the same people who still haven't effective border checks, or contact tracing and quarantine that's half arsed. Yeah, I think I'll pass thanks.
    Have we even reliable stats on asymptomatic people.
    Everyone who gets this virus whether they go on to come down with symptoms or not is shedding live virus for days before any symptoms if any arise. Many days, into weeks for those who remain asymptomatic. Have a read of this. Note the German cases as well as the Wuhan experience. Oh and by the by look at the date it was published. the First of February. And apparently our "top expert" in infectious diseases, Cormican(Comican more like) directly advising the HSE and government and the Irish people confidently stated that unless they came down with a "sore throat and runny nose" living with a known Covid19 contact was of so little risk that you should go about your life as normally as possible. On the Fifth of March. It's bloody ridiculous the level of sheer and dangerous incompetence that has been displayed at times by our authorities. People have most certainly died because of that incompetence. So yeah, like I said I think I'll pass on their amateur hour ballsology thanks.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #1958
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    Kivaro wrote: »
    The Irish government is spending so much of our future taxes (and our children's taxes) responding to this pandemic, but yet failed in the rudimentary task of providing its citizens with masks, which along with the other measures, will stop the virus in the tracks.

    I have no confidence in the relaxation of restrictions when it happens because it will be like sending lambs to the slaughter if masks are not included in the plan.

    This 100%.


  • #1959
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    owlbethere wrote: »
    How on earth can you expect our leader to be qualified enough to understand the benefits of wearing masks/face coverings in indoor environments.
    I bloody expect someone to be Owl. See my previous post for the level of expertise and basic common sense in those tasked with being the experts. This is not hindsight either. Anyone with a working search engine who could read could have told you asymptomatic spread was a risk. So called "super spreaders" were all over the media in January, the medical media outlets were talking about it in early February. But even if they ignored all of that surely someone put their hands up and said "hang on let's be cautious here". But no. It seems not, or they were ignored.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #1960
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I bloody expect someone to be Owl. See my previous post for the level of expertise and basic common sense in those tasked with being the experts. This is not hindsight either. Anyone with a working search engine who could read could have told you asymptomatic spread was a risk. So called "super spreaders" were all over the media in January, the medical media outlets were talking about it in early February. But even if they ignored all of that surely someone put their hands up and said "hang on let's be cautious here". But no. It seems not, or they were ignored.

    My post was more of a sarcastic dig at Leo.


  • #1961
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    Ah no I get that O. Needed to vent. :D Like I said earlier I'm now thinking of me and mine being protected, community wise I'm far less concerned.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #1962
    Seanergy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    @Matersurgery Changing tact hard now on twitter.....SM must have given them the green light yesterday or they are pissed off. Will try to screen their the vid aswell.

    Twitter: 4oclock today

    Surgical masks are unidirectional, they protect the environment from the user. Even if I wear a mask, the transmission probability from a carrier is c 70% if they are not wearing a mask. If the infected person wears a mask but I don't, its 5%. With us both masked, it's 1.5%.

    EXlWdSTXsAINgf1.jpg


  • #1963
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    That picture says everything for people who can't read.

    Yet, here we are and still no masks/face coverings and if we do, it's "only if you want to".


  • #1964
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    I'd like to understand more why a carrier without a face mask can pass it on to someone with a face mask.


  • #1965
    Seanergy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    Ive screengrabbed their vid tweets.



  • #1966
    Seanergy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    And the one from yesterday



  • #1967
    McGiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    No: I don't care enough
    Wibbs wrote: »

    Still, I can't see the Irish authorities changing on this. They've apparently decided and stated it recently that they'll never make it mandatory anywhere. They even removed all mention of them from the lifting restrictions documentation when it was originally in the plan.
    Really? I can't believe it. Can you link the document?
    I'd seen it there when it was posted on RTE website (AFAIK).


  • #1968
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    I'd like to understand more why a carrier without a face mask can pass it on to someone with a face mask.
    Indeed. I agree with their angle save for this part: Surgical masks are unidirectional. That's well, a nonsense and illogical. They are not a one way filter by very design(some respirators are). They don't magically stop flow in only one direction. If you have a spare one try this: Pour a little water in from the side that faces your face, then pour a little water in from the side that faces out. It won't flow through either way. The virus can get in the sides? Yep, but it can also escape the sides.

    I suspect what they may be trying to do is to push the government to mandate masks for all, by pushing the your mask protects me, mine protects you angle to make it more about community and making more people wear them indoors? If so, 100% game ball.

    As the medical chap earlier said "If it doesn't work, why on Earth do we ask people to cover their mouth when they cough? There's no clinical trials on that either but we've never questioned that". That our authorities and their "advisors" are still digging in heels over this is nothing short of a bloody scandal. Then again look to their record of wanton idiocy on a few points of late.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #1969
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    McGiver wrote: »
    Really? I can't believe it. Can you link the document?
    I'd seen it there when it was posted on RTE website (AFAIK).
    It's a couple of pages back, or was it on the main covid thread? Not sure. IIRC it was a comparison between the leaked document a newspaper got and the final. In the leak masks were in the mix, in the final they were removed, or there was a line about may be advisory sometimes.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #1970
    Seanergy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    I'd like to understand more why a carrier without a face mask can pass it on to someone with a face mask.

    I'm sure they would only love to answer your question, get them on twitter.

    I don't know their reason for undertaking this study on surgical masks, we could specuate that one reason might have been because of the volume of Covid-19 positive healthcare workers here. Is it 30% of our national?

    Could it be that the UCD meds have realised that surgical mask's aren't up to the task of protecting the wearer in those highly loaded environments.

    Afterall, surgical masks are designed to protect the healthy from the wearer, not the other way around.

    UCD just offered to help Sands afew hours ago, maybe they want FFP2 grade mask's for health care workers not surgical masks.

    There info graphics are getting a good few retweets......


  • #1971
    McGiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    No: I don't care enough
    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Disagree. Having a qualified doctor as leader of the country was a major bonus.
    Well then if you think that's the case I don't want to even think the death rate if we didn't. Would it be on the UK, Italy, Spain level? Bad!


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  • #1972
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    McGiver wrote: »
    Really? I can't believe it. Can you link the document?
    I'd seen it there when it was posted on RTE website (AFAIK).

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158688184593470&id=96796398469


  • #1973
    McGiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    No: I don't care enough
    khalessi wrote: »
    The gas thing is, there is no proof yet people become immune after getting it and wont get it again. Could herd immunity be playing with fire?
    Yeah, In fact it's the opposite. The reality isn't rosy at all...

    So far the evidence is that Sars-cov-2 doesn't generate sufficient antibodies in adults and even doesn't generate any antibodies in children!

    That's not much of a surprise, because other coronaviruses which cause 20-30% of common colds don't do it either, they provide immunity for 1-2 years max.

    If someone thinks this is like measles or chickenpox where you get long term immunity by contracting it then they're seriously ignorant of the coronaviruses and especially this new one.

    Hence herd immunity is bull****. It would take years to build up, and would have to be cellular immunity not simple antibody immunity. And that would result in huge number of deaths.


  • #1974
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    Page four of the government guidelines and new measures for opening up.

    How Covid spreads... When someone coughs, sneezes or speaks.

    While most of us catches our coughs and sneezes, what about when we talk?

    They go on about tissues and handwashing. Very limited on face mask use, unless someone is a carrier... Except how do you know who's a carrier with asymptomatic people?


  • #1975
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    They really cannot make it any more clearer at this stage. Off you go and get infected. Similar how they were saying that nursing homes shouldn't have banned visitors at the beginning of all this.


  • #1976
    McGiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    No: I don't care enough
    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158688184593470&id=96796398469

    This is outright criminal. Cowards. Pathetic idiots. No other words for this... Equals to killing people. I'm angry.


  • #1977
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    McGiver wrote: »
    This is outright criminal. Cowards. Pathetic idiots. No other words for this... Equals to killing people. I'm angry.

    Yep, I know they are. That's why I posted earlier that secretly they want herd immunity. Their actions speak it.


  • #1978
    McGiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    No: I don't care enough
    khalessi wrote: »
    It is all to do with lack of availability as we know. Im waiting for the guidelines on face covers

    I'd say market would fix it itself. Supply and demand.

    But the US CDC solution is the best - recommend DIY masks.


  • #1979
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    Seanergy wrote: »
    @Matersurgery Changing tact hard now on twitter.....SM must have given them the green light yesterday or they are pissed off. Will try to screen their the vid aswell.

    Twitter: 4oclock today

    Surgical masks are unidirectional, they protect the environment from the user. Even if I wear a mask, the transmission probability from a carrier is c 70% if they are not wearing a mask. If the infected person wears a mask but I don't, its 5%. With us both masked, it's 1.5%.

    EXlWdSTXsAINgf1.jpg

    Is this the results of a study that was carried out?

    Its fairly despicable of our government to ignore something like this.

    I understand why our government is not recommending facemasks because masks have to be reserved for healthcare settings. With a shortage too, if the government recommends masks, they might be liable to provide them or businesses might need to supply them and they may not be able to with a shortage. Surely they could recommend face coverings? Like fabric/cloth masks.


  • #1980
    railer201
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 968 ✭✭✭railer201


    Yes: valved
    Wibbs wrote: »
    It's a couple of pages back, or was it on the main covid thread? Not sure. IIRC it was a comparison between the leaked document a newspaper got and the final. In the leak masks were in the mix, in the final they were removed, or there was a line about may be advisory sometimes.

    This advisory PDF Public Health Framework Document by the NPHET is still on line - see link.

    It does mention cloth face coverings in 6 places, masks in 3 ok.

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7450cc-advice-provided-by-nphet-to-the-minister-for-health/


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  • #1981
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    railer201 wrote: »
    This advisory PDF Public Health Framework Document by the NPHET is still on line - see link.

    It does mention cloth face coverings in 6 places, masks in 3 ok.

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7450cc-advice-provided-by-nphet-to-the-minister-for-health/

    So they are going to advise face coverings on the 18th?

    I don't understand... How about now?


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