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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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    #332
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Love how 50% of the posters here think that old people dread covid like a plague and would rather cocoon themselves for rest of their lives for safety. My grandmother tells me to get outside and not listen to the government, she isnt listening to them herself.

    She is smart enough to remember all the times that government has lied or exaggerated, a lot of those on TV straight in voters/citizens eyes.

    Now she sees Tony H come out and blatantly say that "deaths marked as covid by the medical experts at the time of issuing a death certificate does not necessarily mean that covid was the main cause of death"

    Newstalk:

    "To ensure maximum safety at workplaces, temperature checks will need to be conducted on staff. Handshakes will be banned" So we ll be in the queues to enter our workplaces for hours? Already queuing 30 mins to get into Aldi.


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    #333
    castletownman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,055 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    'I'm alright Jack'

    The problem with that really horrible attitude you have is that one day you may be of that vintage and what goes around can come around.

    Is that the society you want? Is that how you would like people thinking of you (a disposable inconvenience) in your final years?

    There has been an eye opening level of selfishness and pure ignorance on display throughout this thread particularly toward vulnerable groups.

    They are the very people that need our protection and care at this time.

    You should be ashamed of that attitude.

    You know nothing about me, or my background.

    I have a step-granny in self-isolation who admitted to my mother over the phone a couple of weeks ago that "if the good lord took me tonight, I wouldn't complain" because she was feeling so lonely and unwell.

    She has a non-respiratory, non-life threatening complaint and slipped a disc in her back before the measures came into place and hasn't left the house since (gets the daily paper and whatever shopping she needs dropped to her front door).

    I am perfectly aware that they need our protection at this time. But we have done our bit in the community to reduce the spread in that sphere, and with all the will in the world, I don't intend on visiting affected environments like meat processing plants, direct provision centres or nursing homes (thankfully have no loved ones in any) any time soon. As I have said before, it isn't your average Joe that is the problem with the nursing home clusters.

    I am also aware of the need to look after my own well-being. Both of my jobs fall into the stage 4 category so I have a while yet before I get any semblance of normality. My mental health is more important to ME right now. Heck just last week, removing the 2KM restrictions felt like a new world opening in front of my eyes. Being able to go for a walk on the beach would be so cathartic.

    So get off your pedestal. Wanting a quicker easing of restriction doesn't make one selfish.


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    #334
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Love how 50% of the posters here think that old people dread covid like a plague and would rather cocoon themselves for rest of their lives for safety. My grandmother tells me to get outside and not listen to the government, she isnt listening to them herself.

    She is smart enough to remember all the times that government has lied or exaggerated, a lot of those on TV straight in voters/citizens eyes.

    Now she sees Tony H come out and blatantly say that "deaths marked as covid by the medical experts at the time of issuing a death certificate does not necessarily mean that covid was the main cause of death"

    Newstalk:

    "To ensure maximum safety at workplaces, temperature checks will need to be conducted on staff. Handshakes will be banned" So we ll be in the queues to enter our workplaces for hours? Already queuing 30 mins to get into Aldi.

    Then go at a different time.
    Im in Aldi every week and haven't queued once.
    Will be even easier now they're back to normal ipening hours.
    Who has half an hour to waste in a supermarket queue?


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    #335
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Rodin wrote: »
    Then go at a different time.
    Im in Aldi every week and haven't queued once
    Who has half an hour to waste in a supermarket queue?

    I do. But a lot of people are like us, chose to go at times other than 1 PM or 5PM. Queues all the time until about 8 PM.

    How will this work for workplaces though where 100 + people need to start at 9 AM?


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    #336
    setanta1984
    Registered Users Posts: 818 ✭✭✭setanta1984


    I still haven't seen 1 logical reason to justify why Ireland is so radically different to the rest of the EU?

    I keep going back to this - https://i.ibb.co/wpqSyjG/Screenshot-2020-05-09-at-01-07-58.png

    Then thinking about how long it's felt since all this started in March. We have that same length of time to look forward to before we get to even Phase 3. Look at all those countries in Europe who are currently doing stuff in phases 4 and 5 NOW. It makes me feel utterly demoralised. What's it going to be like in 6 weeks time from now when we're watching Europe being open for MONTHS by then?

    Whats so special about us here, please?

    Can we really be so deluded to think we're the only ones to realise how to do this properly, and the whole continent are cuckoo?


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    #337
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    Where have I eve stated that I don`t have sympathy for people in those situations?



    Please show me where you have stated that you do have sympathy with people in those situations.

    If you can't do that, maybe think about doing so in the future as it will make you seem a little more real and sympathetic.


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    #338
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    I do. But a lot of people are like us, chose to go at times other than 1 PM or 5PM. Queues all the time until about 8 PM.

    How will this work for workplaces though where 100 + people need to start at 9 AM?

    Now open until 2200


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    #339
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    setanta1984 wrote: »
    I still haven't seen 1 logical reason to justify why Ireland is so radically different to the rest of the EU?

    I keep going back to this - https://i.ibb.co/wpqSyjG/Screenshot-2020-05-09-at-01-07-58.png

    Then thinking about how long it's felt since all this started in March. We have that same length of time to look forward to before we get to even Phase 3. Look at all those countries in Europe who are currently doing stuff in phases 4 and 5 NOW. It makes me feel utterly demoralised. What's it going to be like in 6 weeks time from now when we're watching Europe being open for MONTHS by then?

    Whats so special about us here, please?

    Can we really be so deluded to think we're the only ones to realise how to do this properly, and the whole continent are cuckoo?

    I got a covid19 leaflet from HSE in the post the other day (its very yellow). at the bottom of it it says the following

    "Ireland is operating a delay strategy in line with WHO and ECDC advice"

    Is there an online description what this strategy entails?

    I dont see how Belgium can have 3 times more deaths than us per million, (7,000 more deaths) and yet their lockdown is being lifted 3 times quicker. Surely they arent following such "delay strategy"?


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    #340
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,533 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    It looks like tensions in this thread have been rising

    Some general warnings to all:

    Remain civil. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just because it's the polar opposite of your own does not invalidate it. Anyone who is uncivil towards other users can expect a minimum of a threadban.

    Keep to the topic

    Do not present "opinion" as "fact"

    Do not believe all stats that are spouted. Usually figures presented in any official way are not only checked for inaccuracies, but will also have caveats and/or explanations of what was done to derive any conclusions reached. Stats though are not "facts" beyond the sample they represent. They can be used to draw conclusions over wider populations, but those conclusions are always subject to a margin of error

    If you throw up an example please explain what point you are making. For example "Look at Sweden" means nothing unless you say what you are looking at in connection with Sweden. Is it restrictions, is it deaths, is it infections?


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    #341
    setanta1984
    Registered Users Posts: 818 ✭✭✭setanta1984


    setanta1984 wrote: »
    I still haven't seen 1 logical reason to justify why Ireland is so radically different to the rest of the EU?

    I keep going back to this - https://i.ibb.co/wpqSyjG/Screenshot-2020-05-09-at-01-07-58.png

    Then thinking about how long it's felt since all this started in March. We have that same length of time to look forward to before we get to even Phase 3. Look at all those countries in Europe who are currently doing stuff in phases 4 and 5 NOW. It makes me feel utterly demoralised. What's it going to be like in 6 weeks time from now when we're watching Europe being open for MONTHS by then?

    Whats so special about us here, please?

    Can we really be so deluded to think we're the only ones to realise how to do this properly, and the whole continent are cuckoo?

    And if the response to the above is that yes, people do believe we are radically different - Then logically that difference must be that we dealt with this so poorly from the beginning from a governmental and scientific point of view we were hit months and months of extra restrictions worse than the rest of the EU.

    In which case how can you then trust those same decision makers to have come up with the right phased exit plan??


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    #342
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    I do. But a lot of people are like us, chose to go at times other than 1 PM or 5PM. Queues all the time until about 8 PM.

    How will this work for workplaces though where 100 + people need to start at 9 AM?

    I think that the concept of everyone starting a workday at 9am is dead in the water


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    #343
    frillyleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 801 ✭✭✭frillyleaf


    coastwatch wrote: »
    Every additional day of restrictions is having a negative effect on peoples wellbeing and on the economy.
    With the consistent improvement in the numbers (new cases, hospital admissions, ICU beds) is there are case to be made to bring in Phase 1 re-opening a few days earlier, to Friday 15th May, and include some phase 2 elements, such as street level retail shops, libraries and increasing the distance limit to 20km?

    They won’t do this. Tesco had to close its clothing shop and there are hardwares being shut by Garda due to traffic being caused with people rushing to them. I say they’ll carry it through next weekend and start fresh from 18th


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    #344
    Penfailed
    Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Well explain Sweden so

    Sweden? That country with more deaths than it's neighbouring countries combined?

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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    #345
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Your are fully correct.
    It can never be the dying or ill though, its silly to suggest that.
    In this case its the youth, the rest of their lives has been sacrificed in the name of suck it up, people are dying

    Jeez thats some hyperbole. The 'rest of their lives????

    Everyone is suffering through this. And yes even those using young people for their own agenda.
    We ALL have to "suck it up" as you eloquently put it .

    Unbelievable


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    #346
    Loozer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Loozer


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Betty the media is full of doctors just waiting for their minute of fame during this.
    Check out Dr Marcus Brun, Simon Harris appointed him to the Irish Medical Council. Very interesting guy

    The 3 Ms in a crisis

    Mayhem

    Manhunt

    Mastermind


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    #347
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I think that the concept of everyone starting a workday at 9am is dead in the water

    Does this still actually happen in most businesses ?? Office I work in we all have our start times staggered between 7.30am and 2pm and finish times from 3.30pm - 10pm, meaning someone is always available to the overseas offices and to meet business requirements


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    #348
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    niallo27 wrote: »
    What's your opinion on other European countries who have been hit a lot worse than us or a lot less than us opening up months before us. Why do you believe our government is more qualified to make these decisions than the rest of europe. We have every right to question the length of the restrictions.

    Well let me just say that statement in bunkum and claptrap at best.

    The EU does not mandate cross European agreements how each countries deals with it's own experience of the pandemic.

    As to "opening up months before us". That's simply rubbish. Most EU countries have had 8 weeks of stay at home restictions. We're only at week 6.

    Each country that I've seen have a whole range of different restrictions and a planned timeline how and when their restrictions will be rolled back

    Perhaps you would like to organise a coup and replace our own government with some other? That seems to be the general gist of a lot of the comments tbh.

    And no that does not mean people asking questions which are based on reality


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    #349
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    As a good friend of mine in this thread posted once

    "The mind boggles"

    It really does boggle. How can their scientific/medical experts be so sure to open up everything so quickly? As opposed to ours?

    If everyone wore masks and glasses we could open today

    When its sunny you put on suncream

    When a respiratory disease is out there put on mask and eyewear

    Are people that thick

    So frustrating


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    #350
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    gozunda wrote: »
    There is no error in my statement. Just your own comprehension I'm afraid.

    Social distancing is there because we are in the midst of a pandemic. It protects both you and me from being infected, getting seriously ill or passing it on to someone who may get seriously ill.

    I think you are the first here to even suggest such complete and utter nonsense. Even those who want no restrictions have not pushed that daft idea. I think your comment just might get a special award for that

    Social distancing is a restriction. There is no plan or timeline to lift it. I understand why it's in place and I never commented on that, just that your assertion that we now have a time line for lifting restrictions is false. We don't.


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    #351
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    The is no plan to lift social distancing because unless a effective vaccine is developed distancing will remain in place for a long time to come. Deal with it.

    My issue is that people are not dealing with this, like the poster I was responding to who said there was a timeline for lifting all restrictions. The majority of people still think everything is back to normal on August 10th. The public need to wake up


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    #352
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    Mike3287 wrote: »
    If everyone wore masks and glasses we could open today

    When its sunny you put on suncream

    When a respiratory disease is out there put on mask and eyewear

    Are people that thick

    So frustrating

    Clearly the most important measure is to observe social distancing. The use of masks, gloves, glasses etc is helpful provided people follow the correct procedures in their use and are not lulled into a false sense of security.


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    #353
    the kelt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    The most despicable comment I read was the one where a poster described the old and those with serious illnesses as being "well beyond their economic use". Sadly an attitude that many posters here seem to agree with.

    No I think that prize goes to the cohort of posters who would be fervently against lifting any restrictions rounding on and attacking a young mother here who admitted she was struggling from a mental point of view with depression etc telling her she was nothing but a bad mother and attention seeker.

    Posts on here at the time a lot of people thought were great, empathy how are ye!


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    #354
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Mike3287 wrote: »
    If everyone wore masks and glasses we could open today

    When its sunny you put on suncream

    When a respiratory disease is out there put on mask and eyewear

    Are people that thick

    So frustrating

    You should stuff your shirt with bubble wrap too, just in case.


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    #355
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    Clearly the most important measure is to observe social distancing. The use of masks, gloves, glasses etc is helpful provided people follow the correct procedures in their use and are not lulled into a false sense of security.

    You should order a pallet of baked beans and just never leave the house again. I’m sure you already have enough toilet paper for the long haul.


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    #356
    Penfailed
    Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Rubber stamping what some medical bureaucrat tells him to do is not decision making - it's the opposite.

    So it's only a decision if he goes against the advice? Erm...okay.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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    #357
    Penfailed
    Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    With regard to the pubs ... they did decide to close all by themselves.

    Following the Temple Bar 'Sweet Caroline' fiasco on the infamous Saturday night, the Vintners themselves decided that they could not observe the government guidelines and they said so on the RTE Radio 1 news at one, the next day (Sunday). Minutes before the vintners spokesperson announced that they were pulling their own plug, Paschal O Donoghue was interviewed first and he was saying that the gov was going to meet with them later that afternoon to see how they could be kept operational under the guidelines.

    The pubs was certainly an example of getting it so badly wrong that the pubs themselves made the decision to close. The schools were also starting to close 'by themselves' and in fact the Dept of Ed sent out a latter the previous afternoon telling them not to, only to have the closure instruction then issued the next morning. Some schools hadn't even had the chance to read the letter telling them to stay open, before they got the call to close.

    So why are they still closed then? Oh yeah, it's because of a government decision.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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    #358
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    I fully agree. Just can't see it being followed widely if and when say in September for example a month after phase 5 has seen basically everything reopen and cases are hopefully low. Poses all sorts of issues long term in years to come. People will just break it. I'd love to know if some people think social distancing will be practised at a wedding for example. I think I know the answer.
    Agreed, which is why restrictions are so blunt. Some people here say we should rely on "common sense".

    We know this all goes by the wayside when people have had a few drinks, which is why pubs etc are last to open. Similarly large indoor events like weddings. Neither crowded pubs or large weddings are possible with this virus circulating, and the government knows it - but so many people seem to think it can, that they have had to create this "phase 5" which seems to be a bucket full of almost impossible things.

    You can read about the Korean example recently. One single infected person visited 5 pubs/nightclubs. Now 1500 people are in quarantine, and the entire industry was sent back into lockdown.


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    #359
    Loozer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Loozer


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    You should stuff your shirt with bubble wrap too, just in case.

    Sunscreen is overkill I reckon if he's wearing a mask and glasses


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    #360
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    gozunda wrote: »
    What? That's rubbish. They shut down their borders ffs

    The Polish Ministry of Health even tried to prevent medical personnel from commenting on the pandemic.

    All international air and rail travel to and from Poland was suspended. Poland's borders were closed to foreigners with very limited exceptions. All persons entering Poland from abroad had to undergo a compulsory 14-day home quarantine. Internal travel was limited forbidding non-essential travel. The army were mandated to help police to keep people off the streets if they had no good reason to be outside, 

    See: https://www.gov.pl/web/coronavirus/travel



    Hows the fek does any of that make them "3 months ahead of Ireland!"? Polish people had 8 weeks of stay at home restictions. We're only at week 6.

    ...

    Yep, Poland closed their borders to foreigners, and strict quarantining of Polish people returning to their country... maybe by closing off their country to external threats, they could afford to offer Polish people living and working in the country more freedom so they could drive further than 10km to visit family, and perhaps that’s why they’re further ahead of us now in opening up and getting back to some semblance of normality without wrecking their economy.

    But why our leaders here can’t see this astounds me.


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    #361
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Penfailed wrote: »
    So it's only a decision if he goes against the advice? Erm...okay.

    Dr Spin and the rest of the parasitical reprobates that make up the Irish government decided to copy the UK government who was advised by that “do as I say,not as I do” Neil Ferguson. That was the decision.


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