Relaxation of restrictions Part II

easypazz · 08-05-2020 11:11AM

Penfailed wrote: »

Mortality rates have nothing to do with whether or not something is a pandemic.

Get back to work you and stop dossing.;)

Ginger n Lemon · 08-05-2020 11:13AM

gozunda wrote: »

No not "SCIENTIFIC" studies :eek:

Ok from that first list

Closing educational facilities - check

prohibiting mass gatherings - check

closure of non-essential businesses - check

From the second

stay at home orders - check but limited (ours has been less and less restrictive than many other EU country)

closure of all non-businesses - what's a 'non business"?

requiring the wearing of facemasks or coverings in public. Nope.

You must be proud we're doing do well ...

Though I suggest you could perhaps provide a link so that we make our own evaluation?

Ah i see an expert statistician and a medical expert as well

News for you though - the current mortality of Covid is not known. Yes people die from different strains of flu each year. I believe I have discuused this elsewhere pre Covid. The mortality figures given for the influenza outbreak of 1918 has a huge variety of estimates. Who mentioned the WHO btw?

Lets get 1 thing right - i am not proud "we are doing well". I think we are at the bottom of the list in terms of how we dealt with the whole thing. I wouldnt be surprised if Albania did better than Ireland.

And you are correct, multiple virologists from numerous countries have conducted studies testing 10,000,000 + people and finding mortality rate of covid of 0.2-0.3%. Multiple statisticians are giving us numbers showing barely any if at all increase in deaths from covid.

You see when RTE tells you 1400 people have died having contracted covid19, they dont tell you that 80% of those had less than 3 months to live or maybe even less than 3 days to live. HSE lists cancer as an "underlying condition". Do i really need to say anything else?

PS deaths do not occur from Covid. They occur in conjunction with covid, do you really think medics treating a person who is dying are gonna say "ok, he had covid, he died". no. they ll check his lungs - he was a smoker, they ll check his heart - he had a heart disease etc etc. This is medicine 101. RTE just chooses to bang the covid drum to cover up for this governments horrendous response.

ixoy · 08-05-2020 11:14AM

I completely agree on the targets and that people might just see it as waiting now.. But have other countries provided similar targets for their own plans? And how are their citizens reacting - no particular reason to think Irish citizens would be slacker than German ones for example.

Beasty · 08-05-2020 11:15AM

Threads merged

Mad_maxx · 08-05-2020 11:16AM

gozunda wrote: »

To be fair the current issues have little or nothing to do with your take on 'fear'. Its everything to do with being pragmatic and developing our on response from other countries experiences. And no it is not inconceivable that we could end up still with our hospitals been overrun and the death rate increasing again.

But more importantly I dont really dont see that anyone is under the impression we can 'defeat' the virus. What we can do like China is to put it back in its box and keep sitting on the lid to ensure that it doesnt get a second chance. And yes that includes a phased lifting of our restrictions as elsewhere.

a virus could emerge in the future ( near or distant ) which has a 90% kill rate , life will still go on some way or other

we cant hide from nature , humans are fragile and death is certain so we might as well just carry on

its in a doctors nature to prioritise the health of everyone regardless of the cost , in fact the cost and practicalities dont enter their head , too much focus has been placed on the views of medics , dan o brien has commented how in germany , the debate has involved economists and even philosophers , here we have bowed exclusively to the doctor fraternity , doctors adore deference and authority as it is and we heaped the maximum on them

skallywag · 08-05-2020 11:19AM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

a virus could emerge in the future ( near or distant ) which has a 90% kill rate , life will still go on some way or other

True, just look at Ebola (90%+) or rabies (99.9%).

stephenjmcd · 08-05-2020 11:29AM

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1258701132140097536?s=19

But yeah let's keep businesses closed and handing out €350 quid a week

Ginger n Lemon · 08-05-2020 11:31AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1258701132140097536?s=19

But yeah let's keep businesses closed and handing out €350 quid a week

WOW. 25% was my worst predicted figure, not a figure closer to 30% unemployment.

Leo its time to open up. No jokes now, no Friday night comedy, open up...

Kermit.de.frog · 08-05-2020 11:34AM

Good news on unemployment which is at 5.4% for April up slightly from 5.3% the previous month.

Obviously the temporary COVID measures drive it up considerably but the seasonally adjusted level of unemployment remains low.

Cork Boy 53 · 08-05-2020 11:36AM

skallywag wrote: »

True, just look at Ebola (90%+) or rabies (99.9%).

Vaccines have been developed for both of those diseases. The same can`t be said for the Covid-19 virus.

easypazz · 08-05-2020 11:36AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1258701132140097536?s=19

But yeah let's keep businesses closed and handing out €350 quid a week

They will have their work cut out getting people back to work.

As I said previously a lot of businesses are in no rush to reopen, the real world is a lot tougher than civil servants like to think.

HeidiHeidi · 08-05-2020 11:37AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

WOW. 25% was my worst predicted figure, not a figure closer to 30% unemployment.

Leo its time to open up. No jokes now, no Friday night comedy, open up...

Do you never get sick of parroting the same lame lines and "jokes" over and over and over again?

(Hint: I do)

easypazz · 08-05-2020 11:38AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good news on unemployment which is at 5.4% for April up slightly from 5.3% the previous month.

Obviously the temporary COVID measures drive it up considerably but the seasonally adjusted level of unemployment remains low.

You are some clown.

Are the Aer Lingus, Ryanair and general avaition job losses all just temporary?

Will all the small businesses just reopen and be viable at vastly reduced capacity?

Answer is no and no.

There is no good news on unemployment.

Cork Boy 53 · 08-05-2020 11:39AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

WOW. 25% was my worst predicted figure, not a figure closer to 30% unemployment.

Leo its time to open up. No jokes now, no Friday night comedy, open up...

As if Leo is reading what a cohort of anonymous posters on boards.ie keep banging on about. Right.........:rolleyes:

stephenjmcd · 08-05-2020 11:40AM

easypazz wrote: »

They will have their work cut out getting people back to work.

As I said previously a lot of businesses are in no rush to reopen, the real world is a lot tougher than civil servants like to think.

This will also play into things now
https://twitter.com/SeanDefoe/status/1258687887874363393?s=19

is_that_so · 08-05-2020 11:40AM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As if Leo is reading what a handful of anonymous posters on boards.ie keep banging on about. Right.........:rolleyes:

Someone is, because you do see things pop up elsewhere!

stephenjmcd · 08-05-2020 11:42AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good news on unemployment which is at 5.4% for April up slightly from 5.3% the previous month.

Obviously the temporary COVID measures drive it up considerably but the seasonally adjusted level of unemployment remains low.

Thats not accurate and you know it. They may well be the permanent unemployed stats for those months but many businesses wont reopen and the people on temporary payment then become part of that unemployed percentage. Kicking the can down the road

_Kaiser_ · 08-05-2020 11:44AM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As if Leo is reading what a cohort of anonymous posters on boards.ie keep banging on about. Right.........:rolleyes:

He's not, but you can be sure someone in FG is. They actively monitor forums like this.

It's a lot more constructive than the nonsense posts on Twitter/Facebook too which generally come across as the "rent a mob" types.

(still, better than the buy a "like" tactic I guess)

castletownman · 08-05-2020 11:46AM

The policy seems to be "lets treat the general public like lepers when everywhere starts to re-open". I hear everyone is to be given bells to ring when you are approaching human contact.

Increasing health and safety procedures (like the certs that restaurants and the likes need to have), and providing every business with a hand-sanitising station upon entry, while stressing to the at-risk categories that by mingling they are doing so at their own risk, is a much more logical approach, in my opinion.

What was it, 22 cases in the community yesterday? We know that it is clustered in nursing homes, some food processing plants and now they are targeting Direct Provision Centres for their testing. The average Joe can't influence a spread occurring in an environment he/he wouldn't be near anyway. Please tell me how the continued restriction of the majority is the correct approach here, especially given how a sizeable chunk of Europe are re-opening far ahead of us, and the financial implications of keeping the economy in inertia are frightening?

It's amazing how we kowtow to the rest of Europe when it comes to governmental policies and finance, but yet we ignore the "EU model" now. I wonder what spin they will put on the imminent homelessness crisis within the next year? Dr. Holohan has no worries in that regard.

ChelseaRentBoy · 08-05-2020 11:47AM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As if Leo is reading what a cohort of anonymous posters on boards.ie keep banging on about. Right.........:rolleyes:

Some people on here actually think he is, i'm not joking.

Kermit.de.frog · 08-05-2020 11:47AM

Many businesses will reopen and they are the figures from the CSO.

Take it up with them if you have an issue.

Fear mongering is not helping your case (whatever that case is).

growleaves · 08-05-2020 11:49AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Someone is, because you do see things pop up elsewhere!

Of course some journalists and minor government employees would look at it. Probably a few posters are on the gov payroll.

It was an Irish Times headline in the 1990s that the government can legally read people's private emails.

The surveillance powers of the government are classified, and judges have to sign off on them and give extensions.

Penfailed · 08-05-2020 11:50AM

easypazz wrote: »

Get back to work you and stop dossing.;)

In these messed up times, a bank holiday Monday is on a Friday!

jibber5000 · 08-05-2020 11:50AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This is what happens when you have a weak, vain, politician who is more concerned with his Twitter account and selfies with celebs and important people, than actually leading the country and looking after the people in it.

The guy has never been anything beyond spin and soundbites. Look at his performances as a minister in Enda's government. Lots to say about other people's departments - did very little in his own.

No surprise then that he's effectively handed over policy control to Tony and the HSE and making speeches quoting movies.

As I've said soo many times before... this is why FG are never elected except as a protest vote. Because they prove to be even worse than FF in the long run.

Leo decided to take another pop at Trump in his Dail speech yesterday.

We've enough problems without him grandstanding and making cheap glib comments.

_Kaiser_ · 08-05-2020 11:56AM

jibber5000 wrote: »

Leo decided to take another pop at Trump in his Dail speech yesterday.

We've enough problems without him grandstanding and making cheap glib comments.

I genuinely don't understand the obsession some people here have with Trump and everything he says/tweets. Actually I o.. a lot of people were personally offended by the election results and how people could vote for something/someone not in-line with their own worldview.

Leo is just piggy-backing onto that of course to be down with the cool kids.

Penfailed · 08-05-2020 11:56AM

castletownman wrote: »

It's amazing how we kowtow to the rest of Europe when it comes to governmental policies and finance, but yet we ignore the "EU model" now.

There is no 'EU Model'. Every country is handling it differently.

Cork Boy 53 · 08-05-2020 11:57AM

Penfailed wrote: »

In these messed up times, a bank holiday Monday is on a Friday!

I thought that the reason for the NI bank holiday being today is due to it being the 75th anniversary of VE Day the same as the 50th anniversary in 1995 was also a holiday. Is that not the case?

stephenjmcd · 08-05-2020 11:57AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Many businesses will reopen and they are the figures from the CSO.

Take it up with them if you have an issue.

Fear mongering is not helping your case (whatever that case is).

Theres no fear mongering. Its reality. Those permanently unemployed rates are a snapshot at the time no issue there. A large percentage of those of the pandemic unemployment and or wage subsidy scheme payment will become part of the permanent figures, AerLingus, Ryanair, Bewleys to name just 3 who are laying off part or in the case of bewleys cafe all of the workforce.

Businesses will reopen but many wont. Again kicking the can down the road and moving the staff into the unemployed figures . If you think unemployment is going to remain low at those 5% numbers then your deluded. We won't see 5% unemployment for a long long time.

You said good news on unemployment there is no good news on that front.

Captain_Crash · 08-05-2020 11:58AM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As if Leo is reading what a cohort of anonymous posters on boards.ie keep banging on about. Right.........:rolleyes:

Actually, on this.. I've a friend who works with PR and social media for FG and I can assure you, while Leo himself is not reading this forum, FG most certainly are

castletownman · 08-05-2020 11:58AM

Penfailed wrote: »

There is no 'EU Model'. Every country is handling it differently.

And yet most of them seem to be along the same lines, apart from us.

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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